|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
December 8, 2012, 11:13 PM | #1 |
Member
Join Date: February 6, 2012
Posts: 24
|
Cheaper calibers without being surplus.
I'm looking to buy a new rifle soon but I am not set on a caliber yet. I currently own a 10/22 Ruger and a Benelli cordoba. Looking through my options, and I am still not sure what I would like so I would like to see some personal opinions from shooters who have actually shot the ammo that they are suggesting. Below is my list of considerations in order of importance:
1. Cheap but not surplus 2. Accurate to at least 100yds (My 10/22 does not cut it at that length, so better accuracy than a .22lr at that range) 3. Longer barrel life (I shoot a lot, and will put at least 100 rounds a weekend through with it, my .22 has nearly 10k rounds through it, and the 12 is around 3500.) 4. Ability to take down animals up to but not including deer So far I have been considering .22 wmr, but I am not positive it will have the power or accuracy at the range I want, but I love the cost of it. It would be nice to also bridge a little farther from .22, help close in the range of .22-12 gauge. Also, I cannot reload. I wish I could, but I cannot reload with my current housing arrangement. I could possibly in the future although. |
December 8, 2012, 11:17 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 10, 1999
Location: High Desert NV
Posts: 2,850
|
.223
|
December 8, 2012, 11:21 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 1999
Location: Where they send me
Posts: 1,013
|
5.56 as mentioned.
Why is surplus not an option? 5.45-39 is cheap now and has a lot going for it. To get more power you would have to go up to .308 or maybe 30-30. Readily available and not painful. .22 Mag is a gain over the .22 but it not cheap in my mind. About the same price as 9mm. There are some 9mm carbine options worth a look (Beretta Storm) or you could get a .40 version of that for more power (but more $$ ammo).
__________________
He who dares wins. NRA Life Benefactor Member |
December 8, 2012, 11:36 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 8,211
|
.223 is about as cheap as you'll get $7-10 per 20 rounds non fmj bullets. Other affordable chamberings will be .204, 7.62x39, .243, .270, .30-30, .308, and .30-06. The only reason I can see for non-surplus ammunition would be if you lived in a country where firearms that can shoot military surplus are banned.
__________________
NRA Life Member |
December 9, 2012, 12:36 AM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 6,872
|
Only 2 come to mind that are accurate to 100yds and cheep 17HMR and 223/5.56 . 223 will take down any animal up to small deer no problem and the 17HMR is just a bad azz 100yd caliber .
HHMM I guess 7.63x39 would work and really it's the caliber your looking for . You did not mention budget or action . 223 = AR , Savage model 11 hoghunter and many more . 17HMR Savage 93R17 7.62x39 Savage Model: 10 FCM Scout Im starting to detect a pattern here
__________________
If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
December 9, 2012, 01:18 AM | #6 |
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,930
|
In centerfire, about the cheapest you can get is 7.62x39. You can use the less expensive steel-cased Russian stuff for practice and then bump up to the nicer brass-cased domestic ammunition for matches and hunting.
It's not often thought of as being accurate, but that has a lot more to do with the firearms it's generally associated with and with the quality of the lower-priced steel-cased ammo on the market. With good quality ammunition, and out of an accurate rifle it can be remarkably precise.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
December 9, 2012, 05:39 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 7, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 333
|
Until you are able to reload the 223 is going be your best best.
get a savage axis or a Stevens 200 combo package and have fun
__________________
Superman, you are a mean drunk |
December 9, 2012, 08:39 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 29, 2008
Location: now living in alabama
Posts: 2,433
|
cheapest without being surplus in sporting would probably be 30-06, 308, 243. As far as reloading, these three can be reloaded in Lee's hand press.
__________________
No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it. |
December 9, 2012, 08:46 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 18, 2010
Location: Independence Missouri
Posts: 4,582
|
204, .223, .243 woulbe my picks also.
__________________
Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry. |
December 9, 2012, 08:47 AM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 20, 1999
Location: Where they send me
Posts: 1,013
|
A .357 lever gun which will also shoot .38's could also be an option. Not on par with the -39 but for plinking and deer at close range it will be fine. And, you can get a revolver down the road to share ammo.
__________________
He who dares wins. NRA Life Benefactor Member |
December 9, 2012, 09:21 AM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,235
|
.223, just so many choices in this chambering. Yes you can buy surplus ammo. But it's not totally military
__________________
Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!! |
December 9, 2012, 04:37 PM | #12 |
Member
Join Date: February 6, 2012
Posts: 24
|
As of now I'm thinking either .223 or .204. I singled out surplus as I am out to shoot well 90% of the time, and will buy more expensive ammo over cheap because I want better groups. I can shoot to the near limits of both my guns (Not trying for 400 yrd luck shots with my .22, but I have made them up to 300 on 14 inch gongs), so I think my ammo needs to reflect it.
I love the .243 caliber, but burnout would occur too early. I noticed the pistol caliber idea pop up a few times, any pistol caliber rifles that are sub moa, or are they mostly fun guns or ranch carbines? |
December 9, 2012, 06:30 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 908
|
If your comfortable with the price of .17 HMR ammo in your area, it is a .22 wmr knecked down to a .17. It moves very fast and hits very hard. I could hit a golf ball at 100 yards no problem.
I make single hole groups at 65 yards smaller than a dime. On a day with pretty calm winds its very possible to make shots out to 200+ yards. I have shot everything from chipmunks to crows with it. My favorite caliber. It is a great varmint caliber. I would feel comfortable shooting a coyote with it. Outside of that, 22-250 shoots like a laser beam out to around 350 yards. .204 ruger is a fast moving caliber but it won't be legal for deer in most places, may or may not be a huge concern. On barrel life, take your time shooting and don't let it get too hot and your barrel will last longer. |
December 9, 2012, 06:42 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 12, 2006
Location: NKY
Posts: 12,463
|
The .223 is a great choice and should meet all of your requirements.
__________________
"He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson |
December 9, 2012, 06:43 PM | #15 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 11, 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 546
|
Quote:
__________________
BOOM |
|
December 9, 2012, 06:49 PM | #16 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 8,211
|
Quote:
Quote:
Your looking at an average of $20-30 for twenty rounds of .243 depending on what your rifle likes. I don't imagine you will shoot more than that a week on average throughout the year since that is $1,000-$1500 per year if you buy factory ammunition. I'd imagine you'll get many years of shooting at least a minimum of five, before you burn your barrel out. There are many well used .243's that that have been shooting for many of decades without burning out the barrel.
__________________
NRA Life Member |
||
December 9, 2012, 07:25 PM | #17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 10, 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 6,872
|
Quote:
__________________
If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
|
December 9, 2012, 08:24 PM | #18 | |
Member
Join Date: February 6, 2012
Posts: 24
|
Quote:
Oh the .17 hmr, I love the caliber and how you can buy a marlin/savage and shoot bullets through the same hole at 75 yards. But I ruled it out at the beginning, as in order to do that you need to clean the barrel every 5 shots. Very dirty round and a very small barrel. |
|
December 9, 2012, 08:49 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 2012
Location: Georgia
Posts: 908
|
The manual for my Marlin 917v states very clearly that the gun does not require regular cleaning with normal use. That it really only needs to be cleaned after heavy use. The barrel on mine stays very clean and I hardly clean it.
When i do clean it I will run a swab with some cleaner and it comes out with a tiny amount of residue. Run another swab through it and it comes out as white as it went in. Also my Marlin 917v cost me about 250 dollars and I put a redfield scope on it that cost around 200. I replaced the trigger return spring with one taken out of a bic pen and cut to the same length. It has been utterly dependable in putting bullets exactly where I want them to go. If anything I find that my groups shrink in size as I shoot, my accuracy 25 rounds in will be better than my first shots from a clean rifle. The group above was around 65 yards and 4 shots, shooting prone off a bipod. This was probably 20 rounds in since I had stated shooting, no telling if the rifle was recently cleaned or not. Last edited by alex0535; December 9, 2012 at 08:54 PM. |
December 9, 2012, 09:18 PM | #20 |
Member
Join Date: February 6, 2012
Posts: 24
|
I was shooting a marlin .17 (no idea what the model was) with my uncle at the range a half a year ago. It would put bullets in the same hole from 1-7, then in an inch until 15, then they would break a little apart. This was at 50 yards on a brand new gun I believe. There could be more to the problem, like the gun being new, but he said it was a common issue and I'd trust his logic being a gun smith.
Another problem is up here where I live there is rarely less than 20 mph of wind, and have fun shooting a 17 grain bullet in that at anything more than 50 yards. |
December 9, 2012, 09:35 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,235
|
I still think the .223 fits your criteria perfectly. Some cheap ammo like American Eagle shoots rather well. There's just a huge amount of rifle choices and ammo choices in ,223
__________________
Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!! |
December 10, 2012, 04:13 PM | #22 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 8,211
|
Quote:
Quote:
8 lbs of powder $150 2000 small rifle primers $60 1K 55 grain FMJ bullets with 1K prepped military brass $180 1K 55 grain FMJ bullets $105 Lee Classic Turrent Press (not as fast as a progressive, but faster than a single stage) $200 Lee Deluxe Die Set .223 Remington $33 Total cost to reload 2K .223 rounds $728 Of course there will be some shipping that I didn't include but even at $800 for your first 2K reloads you save in the neighborhood of $200 the first year. The next 2K reloads you'll be looking around $400 +/- depending on what deals you can find on bullets, powder and primers (buy powder and primers local to save Hazmat fees). You may have to buy a brass trimming tool as well, but .223 brass lasts a long time, plus if you shoot at a public range there is always a ton of it lying around to pickup. If you are seriously going to shoot 2K a year I wouldn't even waste my time buying bulk ammunition, and go straight into reloading, even if my buddies were helping to offset the costs. Quote:
__________________
NRA Life Member |
|||
December 10, 2012, 04:47 PM | #23 |
Member
Join Date: September 13, 2012
Posts: 22
|
Just remember that your #4 will likely require you to buy non-cheap ammo. FMJ is very cheap. Hunting quality bullets are generally a little more expensive. Also, depending on what state you are in, using FMJ for hunting anything may be illegal.
|
December 10, 2012, 05:38 PM | #24 |
Junior member
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 9,995
|
Surplus ammo not accurate?
The most accurate factory ammo I have ever fired was 7.5 Swiss GP 11, by far. Fifty cents a round, but that is just about the cheapest match quality ammo you can find. I have shot fair amounts of other surplus ammo and never found it to be inaccurate compared to the inexpensive commercial ammo being discussed here. Aim surplus had a load of 556 government contract seconds a few years ago and everyone in my CMP club ended up with as much as they could afford. Way way better than anything commercial on the market at near the price. Don't think of it as second hand. Think of it as government subsidized. Last edited by johnwilliamson062; December 10, 2012 at 05:47 PM. |
December 11, 2012, 09:50 AM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 2, 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,676
|
Now while there is exceptions to every rule I've found that ammo of similar quality to also be very similar in price. Often post come up about which cartridge for varmints/predators, .223 or .22-250. Invariably someone will toss out that the .223 is much cheaper to shoot than the .22-250. That may be true if you're comparing cheap imported ammo to quality hunting ammo but once you start comparing apples to apples the price get much closer. Not saying to not get a .223, just realize that while deals can be found you're not gonna save big money shooting one compared to many other centerfires. On the ther hand, the .223 is a good choice for many things including punching paper. For the Op's purposes it's a very good choice even if ammo price wasn't a consideration.
As for the magmun rimfires......... OP stated capable of deer? Kinda tosses those outta the picture. I like the idea of a .38/.357 rifle of some flavor. But while some can be remarkably accurate on average you're not gonna shoot tiny bug holes with one. |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|