South Korean Sale of M-1's and Carbines

[DG45]

What's the latest on this subject? I know this was on the front burner for a while, then I heard that the US put a hold on it for some ridiculous reason or another, but isn't it now on again?

Or, is there still a hold-up on allowing the carbines in the country due to some silly objection to their magazine capacity (which is the story I heard)? If so, why would that be an obstacle to the sale of the M-1's which only hold 8 rounds?

Assuming that this sale is on again, or if it eventually does go on again, what is the likely procedure for selling these old warhorses to individuals, and at what likely price?

Would I be able to use a CCR to buy one without going through a FFL dealer?

Please do not bash any political person or group in your answer. I might agree with you, but its unneccesary, most of us here are already on the same team, and political comments have already gotten one thread on this subject closed. I just want some information.

[JiminTexas]

Unfortunately the Brady buch got to Obama before an adult could intervene and he stopped the transfer because "Assault rifles like the Garand have large magazines and could bre used to inflict a large amount of damage". I guess nobody told them that the Garand only holds eight bullets.

[Tom Servo]

We're not really sure who was responsible for the delay.

That said, SOG had a few, and my shop ordered some. To put it mildly, these are best avoided.

To put it not-so-mildly, these things make the Blue Sky imports look NIB. Out of four specimens, only two were safe to shoot, and those required the intervention of a gunsmith. None were acceptable, even as shooters, out of the box.

All four had serious pitting issues. If this is indicative of the rest of the lot, I wouldn't risk the money.

[troy_mclure]

last i heard (nra letter) they were being held up cause both state department and doj had both gotten involved somehow.

[azredhawk44]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if:

-These rifles were such sorry specimens that the S.Koreans knew they were junk, the importers knew they were junk, the State Dept knew they were junk, the DOJ knew they were junk, and the NRA knew they were junk;
-Obama/Brady saw it as a potential feather in their cap to stop these imports, not because they are junk rifles, but because they were "EEEEEVILLLL rifles";
-NRA saw it as a potential feather in their cap to fundraise and fight against Obama/Brady despite the fact that everyone know they are junk rifles;
-And the unwashed masses (us) got to get indignant one way or another (anti-gunners and pro-gunners alike) and give money to our favorite group to support our stance;
-And it doesn't matter one way or another, because these aren't "guns..." they are broken metal tubes with bits of wood stuck on them?

I find it quite interesting that the CMP has been removed from the process of import for these, and I'm wondering if it's because they have CHOSEN to not want to be involved with a boatload of lemon/unsafe rifles.

[Tom Servo]

I find it quite interesting that the CMP has been removed from the process of import for these, and I'm wondering if it's because they have CHOSEN to not want to be involved with a boatload of lemon/unsafe rifles.

I'm to understand that the CMP passed on these after inspection of samples.

[rr2241tx]

I think redhawk is likely more correct than he suspects.

CMP likely isn't involved because as I understand it, the US sold the machinery to Korea who then manufactured the rifles for their own use as opposed to the other rifles CMP has handled which were all technically "on loan" to the various other countries and were returned to the Defense Department when they were no longer needed. So, in essence, in the tortured world of international arms dealing all the CMP rifles were just US rifles that were surplus to our own defense needs. The Korean rifles however would not be US rifles returned from loan and thus would have to be imported as foreign surplus through licensed importers into the commercial market.

I have been wrong before, so it will come as no surprise if the above is all complete hogwash.

[m.p.driver]

Who's to say these weren't the refuse left over from the big imports in the late 80's.

[grumpa72]

You should go to thecmp.org, click on the forums and read what they really said. Relying on memory here but this rumor has been going on for over five years. The CEO of the CMP essentially disputes this and found no data that these ever existed. Again from memory, his (the CEO) report is that this original story was put out by a Korean newspaper and then picked up and circulated by other sources, none of whom proved or disproved that these were really in existence or that they could be legally imported. The CEO's name is Orest and he has a long discussion about this.

Read it to get to the bottom of it. Don't rely on internet rumor.

Ok, decided to go back to the source - http://www.thecmp.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26268.

[pvt.Long]

I love when politicians start to put their .02 in on firearm regulations.... this is a prime example. I can find a colt ar15 with a 30 rnd mag full of armor piercing rounds and put it beside my bed as home protection, but I cant buy a garand thats been manufactured in another country because its evil...hhmmm.... or better yet have a armalite bolt action .50 cal as a varment gun but they frown upon having a semi auto 100% russian ak being imported, because if it doesent have a certain number of american parts it is deemed evil.

[Chris_B]

The Garands were not made in Korea Just sayin'

[Cheapshooter]

An article in the November 1 issue of Gun Talk talks about legislation introduced in both houses to force the State Department to allow the sale. The Collectible Firearms Protection Act. Google it to find out more.

[bedbugbilly]

I'm just curious about the Korean M1 Garands - many years ago, in the 60s, I faintly remember a story in one of the gun magazines about the M1 Garands and the Koreans - it had to do with arming S Korea and how the surplus arms were such a good thing for their army, blah, blah, blah. If I remember correctly, the article had pictures and one of the things noted was that because of the size of the S Korean soldier - the buttstock had to be shortened around an inch or an inch and a half to shorten the trigger pull. I wish I could remember the article and what magazine it was in but I've got too many cobwebs in the old belfry. Not that it matters but I'm curious - were the buttstocks shortened on the few that from what I'm reading, made it here? Or, is my age starting to show and I haven't remembered correctly? Thanks!

[SfcMac]

Long I think perhaps I've heard enough to convince me that those Korean M1 are probably not worth having Could be that the Brady bunch and OB are doing us all a favor this time. CMP wants nothing to do with them. Doesn't that tell you something? Myself I don't collect the M1, but the Mosins, and Enfields, Carcanos That I own came from reliable sources I can trust. Stick to CMP. At least they won't sell you crap. Besides they as I understand it have enough Garands for a couple years yet. Oh and one more thing about the AK47. It is legal in every state except California The name of the game is Hi Cap or Lo Cap Finally there is only one AK 47 that is C&R, and that is the Soviet Kalashnikov, Made by Mikhail kalashnikov in 1947 The present going price for this baby is fully automatic and requires an FFL.

[Don P]

From The NRA Institute for Legislative Action.

U.S. senators and representatives from both sides of the
aisle recently urged Secretary of State Hillary Rodham
Clinton to revisit her Department’s March decision
disallowing the importation of M1 rifles and M1 carbines
from South Korea.
In a letter to Clinton, Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.) and 15
other senators stated that the importation disapproval
“amounts to no more than a backdoor gun ban that lacks
any basis or justification under current Federal law and
policy” and “violates law-abiding citizens’ constitutional
right, protected under the Second Amendment, to
purchase these firearms for legitimate purposes such as
target shooting, hunting, collecting, and self-protection.”
The senators questioned the department’s opinion that
the rifles “could potentially be exploited by individuals
seeking firearms for illicit purposes,” and requested “an
explanation of your reasons for blocking the importation
and sale of American-made rifles from South Korea.”
In a separate letter to Clinton, Sen. Jim Webb (D-Va.)
also disagreed with the department’s opinion that
importation of the rifles would constitute a public safety
risk, saying “The importation of these antique rifles . . .
does not pose a security threat to our nation.”
In another letter to Clinton, Congressman John
Boozman (R-Ark.) and 65 other members of the House
also objected to the department’s stated concern that
the rifles might be “exploited . . . for illicit purposes,”
calling it “a reiteration of tired arguments by gun control
advocates.” The Boozman letter also noted “these are the
very same types of rifles that have been sold by the federal
government to civilians for decades through the Civlian
Marksmanship Program.
In yet another letter to Clinton, Congressman Joe
Donnelly (D-Ind.) and 44 other members of the House
of Representatives noted that “the M1 is one of the two
rifles most commonly used at the National Matches, a
marksmanship competition authorized by federal law”
and that “there are separate competitions dedicated to
each of the two rifles” (the M1 rifle and the M1 carbine).
Rep. Donnelly’s letter, like Sen. Cornyn’s, noted that NICS
checks would be required on any of the rifles sold in the
United States, as would be the case with any imported
firearm.
Meanwhile Congresswoman Cynthia Lummis (R-Wyo.),
who signed Rep. Donnelly’s letter, has introduced H.R.
6240, The Collectible Firearms Protection Act, which
would allow for the importation of lawfully importable
U.S.-origin surplus firearms without the approval of the
Departments of State or Defense



Some of you may be interested in this publication
william lovelady [[email protected]]


Dear Sportsman's Gazette Reader,
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This is where the above info was found

[SfcMac]

Ok Ok Ok Now we have room to breathe As of last night we own the H of R again and approximately 49% of the Senate Now you who are up on this need to apply pressure in the right quarters, so that OB is forced to concede on the Korean M1s It can be done. As for myself Something strange happened the other day. I recently was invited to join a Sportsman club that is part of the KofC. There I was introduced to several members who are FFLs themselves, and one is NYPD I had talked about possibly using my M1917 as a trade, and I jokingly mentioned the Garand One Brother asked me if it would make a difference if the M1 was rebuilt. When I said I was interested, he told me to bring the 1917 to a meeting next week, and he will bring the Garand. So being patient may have paid off after all Anyway you have my support with getting our elected leaders to bring those korean M1s home.

[Adirondack]

I built a custom rack in my gun safe just for M1 Carbines; how was I to know that the CMP would run out. I would love to see the CMP get them (no import marks); I've got at least room for 10 more before needing another safe

[Chris_B]

Personally I think the quality of the carbines and rifles will be low, overall. I expect they saw hard and long abuse

But, I also think at worst, a lot of good parts would come of it, parts that collectors or people who are real picky about drawing numbers might like

Plus, on a weird level, I'd like to see those parts of history come home

[Slamfire]

The Arms Export Act gives the President the authority to control imports and exports of anything deemed to be defense articles and defense services.

The State Department manages the US Munitions List.

http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulati..._official.html

If the State Department is blocking the import of Garands, it is doing so by direction of the President.

The BATF has a good site which explains who does what, and what hoops have to be jumped if you want to import defense articles into the US.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/i...dure-aeca.html

[Don P]

And it makes you think about the C&R's they are currently letting in, Mosin-Nagants for one. If one desired they could purchase a truckload. Leave it to the bureaucracy to screw things up. The condition of the M1's and carbines may not be that bad. If anything they can't be any worse than the Nagants.

[chris in va]

It's also my understanding the CMP turned down these Korean returns due to the bad condition they are in. That's saying a lot, considering their rack grade rifles are pretty beat up.

[Don P]

Interesting Chris, any links to obtain that info please.

[Adirondack]

Towards the end of the supply of Bavarian marked M1 Carbines, I purchased a rack grade 'Forestry' that was made by Inland. The stock had no finish on it at all; no oil, no varnish, nothing; it turned out to be so easy to re-finish. I steamed out the dents then lightly sanded down the raised grain on the stock and then followed the CMP's guidelines for stock re-finishing and it turned out to be the best looking Carbine I owned.

It may be that the metal is badly pitted or the barrel and throat erosion make a barrel replacement necessary but I kind of like a challenge and would love to have the chance to restore a few of these.

[Chris_B]

Interesting Chris, any links to obtain that info please.

Diffrent Chris here

But I recall that as well.

I don't go to the CMP forums any more; I was very offended by a group of members there who believe that the fact their rifles may have been used to kill gives them the right to feel certain ways about things and about people; they are proud of the deaths their rifles may have been part of, as if they wanted to start carving notches and counting headstones and join in the pride of their country by actually being happy about the deaths, except of course they didn't go and do the things the rifles did, didn't serve and didn't defend the US in WWII or Korea. I got called un-American for posting that the events encountered and feelings of the man who may have carried my rifle were not things I felt I could lay claim to

That's just a select few of the members there and not a condemnation of the CMP or their forum but I don't care to read any more comments like that so I don;t frequent the place

BUT I do recall reading that info (along with lots of other great info) on the CMP forums. A search there may turn up the info

[salvadore]

I don't know about storage, but the ROKs took good care of their equipment.