Anything .45 colt can do that .357 can't?

[ThomasT]

I have seven 357 revolvers so thats my preference. I almost bought a Ruger 45 Colt/45 ACP a few years ago because I wanted the lighter alloy frame they come with. I knew it would make it more pleasant to carry. But I found a deal on a NIB Super BH in 44 mag and since I handload I bought that instead.

I have full power 44 mag loads and loads all the way down to pop gun levels. But the 44 rarely ever gets shot. The 357s get shot nearly every range trip. And light 38 target loads get shot a lot. For a trail gun I like the GP-100 with 4" barrel and my mid range 357 loads. And those are a hard cast lead 158gr bullet pushed with 6.6grs of Unique. Its accurate and has enough power to shoot length ways through a large Goat. I did that once.

Those are nice to shoot and have a real step up in power over 38 special ammo without the blast of a full bore 357 load. I load something similar for the 44 mag with a 240gr lead bullet and 9grs of Unique.

[stinkeypete]

As a backup to a rifle, I would take a lcrx in .38.

I love the blackhawks but they are heavy. After a day walking, two extra pounds matters.

[44 AMP]

What about weight matters more to you when packing a handgun? Ease of carry (light weight) or how it behaves when shooting?

I accept the heavier weight of large full size pistols as the price for them being more "shootable" because the heavier weight damps more of the recoil.

There's no free lunch.

Several skilled folks have taken impressively big critters with the original S&W .357. 158gr @ 1500fps+ from the long barrel Smith. Not a wimpy load by any means or standard. Tough to find ammo at that level today, unless you make it yourself.

... unless you don't mind letting many animals go because you are not 100% sure you have that perfect shot placement.

I was taught that this is what ethical, responsible hunters DO. Though I also know that many people do not.

Sport hunting isn't combat, it isn't self defense, and it isn't survival hunting. Questionable shots should be passed up.

I like the .45 Colt, in a Ruger Blackhawk you can load it from cowboy game load levels up to over 12-1300fps with 250gr bullets. This can, and has dropped everything that walks in North America, including some very large bears, providing the shooter does their part correctly.

I also believe in my signature line...

[stinkeypete]

We’re in agreement. When backing up an eight pound center fire rifle and I expect my shot to be at three feet for the pistol... even a .22 might do.

As for passing up shots, over the years I’ve learned that my estimation of my skill in the field has overestimated my actual ability more times than I’m proud to admit. My experience in the field is that for me, .44/.45 is much more forgiving of my errors and more humane tool for a gruesome job. Even taking the .357 Max in to account, which was my first selection for a centerfire pistol.

Plugged and muffed, spf 50 on my face to deal with the fireball.. I would still pick .45 Colt for hunting deer. Even using simple cast lead in .45 vs hollow point .357 Max. As pointed out, being pleasant to shoot matters. That Max takes nerve to light off.

[rodfac]

Reading some of the comments tells me I wasn't clear enough in the purpose of my "hunting pistol". I would never intend on this being used as a primary hunting tool. It would be carried as a sidearm/protection gun secondary to my bow or rifle for the hunt. If that sways your opinions, please let me know.

Okay, Jacket, that does color my comments.

Over the years, I've used my sidearm to finish 5 deer for hunters that took shots that didn't do the job, as well as a cpl that had been hit by cars.

The calibers were: .22LR with a Single Six Ruger from ~20 yds; several with a .357 Smith 3" model 60, and one with a Smith Model 1955 Target in .45 ACP. All but one were head shots and none were closer than 10 yds. Out west I finished a large cow elk with a broken back with .44 Magnum...the shot from ~10 yds, to the neck.

None of these, I'd care to repeat...most entailed a lengthly trail up with frequent remarks by the hunters involved that would have left a wounded animal in the woods for a death by coyote...a grim thought that.

So here are my points. A large caliber handgun may allow you access to dense thickets that are all but impenetrable with a rifle and where the visibility is minimal. But pick a good finishing caliber....44 Spl, .41 Mag, 44 Mag...you get the idea.

The same gun, should be good enough for a one and only firearm in bear country. In my case, two decades, I drew a cow tag for elk in the high country northeast of Jefferson, Colorado. On opening day, a herd of 20-25 cut across an open park, two hundred yds from where I'd stopped to scope the open area.

I killed my cow at 9:30 am, & working alone, I spent a several hours quartering her and rigging my packboard for the haul out to my jeep parked on a two-track 3/4 of a mile through the timber. After side-hilling in 6" of frozen crusted snow, on the first trip out, with a hind qtr loaded, I decided to leave my .35 Whelen in the jeep. It was getting along in the afternoon, and I figured I could get one more load out before dark and didn't want the extra weight of the rifle.

On the trip back to the kill site, I found fresh bear tracks in my previous pack out trail. It'll give you the willies, believe me...especially when you're not packing a back up gun. That bear had followed me for several hundred yards, but then veered off and I never saw nor heard him. A hundred pounds of fresh elk meat on your back and no gun in bear country is a recipe for disaster.

As it turned out, after reaching the kill site, I decide to haul the best cuts up into the trees with my backboard rigging rope then hiked back to the jeep without a load. It was a scary, watchful hike back out...crunching snow, lengthening shadows...

I was convinced I'd be lucky to get any more of that elk out, but in the am, fully armed, I found it undisturbed. Lesson learned...I had left a tanker type holster with a .44 Smith in camp but didn't want the extra weight on that 1st day.

I'm a flat lander from KY and 9000+ feet of elevation is a killer when you're in your late 50's and packing out heavy meat. I now tote some sort of handgun on most deer hunts even here in KY, and if I had the legs and lungs still for Colorado, I'd do the same while elk hunting.

Lastly, a handgun is good on the hip in camp as well as out in the bush. Not all of us are honest and upright in the game fields and an empty camp is an invitation to thieves. Alone in camp, but armed, you're not so much of an easy target.

Just some thoughts...Rod

[Targa]

If your a reloader, .45Colt every day and twice on Sunday without a second thought. If you’re not, then just the opposite go with the .357.

[Radny97]

Originally Posted by peterg7

The .45 is more pleasant to shoot without hearing protection.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very true. I’ve shot .357 in the outdoors without hearing protection. It was awful. Never again. 45 Colt by comparison is nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jetinteriorguy]

First of all, as a backup protection gun I’d never use a SA, no disrespect meant to SA lovers. Given your choice between these two calibers and the intended purpose a nice DA with either a 3” or 4” under lug barrel in .357 would be my choice. If you don’t mind a little extra weight go with an 8 round cylinder for extra fire power like a S&W 627. Carry it in either a chest rig or under arm rig and the weight won’t bother as much and still be very accessible in an emergency.

[44 AMP]

I'm interested in a Ruger Blackhawk with the convertible cylinders, or a Redhawk that allows moon clips for a "conversion". Deciding between .45 colt or .357 magnum.

the OP is interested in Rugers, either the Blackhawk or Redhawk. He already has a .45, and a couple of 9mms.

His stated primary concern is protection from dangerous animals (the 4 legged kind).

Generally speaking, animals are not impressed with the size of the gun or the hole in the barrel, or how many shots it holds. Nor are they usually impressed by being shot at if they have already decided to act against you. Hit(s) in the right place are what they pay attention to, and I don't think one is at a huge disadvantage with an SA revolver, if you can use it fairly well. (this goes for about everything, its the person, not the tool that gets hits)

Either round can do the job if the shooter can. The op seems to be leaning to the .45 now, 357 later and wants to be able to shoot multiple rounds from both (acp from the 45Colt, 9mm from the 357) The Blackhawk convertible is made for that. And while considered a big, heavy gun, its quite a bit lighter than a Redhawk.

Personally, I would not feel under armed with a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 or in .357. That being said, if I were packing my .357 Blackhawk, it wouldn't be with a 9mm cylinder in it.

[Nanuk]

protection in the woods. 44 magnum or 10mm is what I use.

[Reloadron]

"Mountain lions, black bear, moose, and now wolves (albeit very few) are the main 4-legged threats in the woods that I know of. Would .357 mag handle these situations on the slim chance I'd need to"?

With that in mind and as much as I like the .45 Colt cartridge I would likely opt for a four inch barrel .357 Magnum. You are simply looking for a carry gun in the Colorado woodlands capable of stopping the game you listed.

My .45 Colt is an old Ruger Stainless Redhawk and while the .45 Colt is a fine cartridge and I load both .357 Magnum and .45 Colt I see no need for the .45 Colt unless you really want one.

Ron

[Moenie]

Factory loads, no.

[44 AMP]

Factory loads, no.

Why no??

while they aren't always the pinnacle of power, people have been protecting themselves with factory loads since 1873 for the .45 Colt and 1935 with the .357 magnum.

If they didn't work, I'm sure we would have heard about it by now...

[gwpercle]

Get the 45 Colt / 45 acp Blackhawk Convertible .

Why ? Your own words " I do realy like the idea of owning a 45 Colt and having another option to shoot 45 acp in ." Go with your gut instincts .

50+ years ago I passed up the chance to buy a 4 5/8" barreled 45 Colt / 45 acp BH and have regretted it ever since ... the 357 Magnum I bought is great , it shoots 38 special ... but it's NOT a 45 Colt . Just something about a 45 Single Action .
Gary

[USSR]

Mountain lions, black bear, moose, and now wolves (albeit very few) are the main 4-legged threats in the woods that I know of.

Your words, not mine. Several of these critters got sharp claws and teeth. I stand by my previous statement that with the .357 being a marginal deer cartridge, I would go with the .45 Colt to protect my hide.

Don

[Scorch]

Anything .45 colt can do that .357 can't?

Not very much.

Mountain lions, black bear, moose, and now wolves (albeit very few) are the main 4-legged threats

Nothing in that list a 357 can't kill cleanly. The BLM depredation hunter that used to take care of critters for my sister's sheep ranch used a 22 revolver on cats and coyotes. A friend of mine took the CA state record black bear with a 38 Special revolver. Moose die easily, a customer of mine used to shoot moose with an old, tired 25-35. Wolves go to 180 lbs. A 357 can handle all of that.

[rclark]

The 357s get shot nearly every range trip.

And me, the .45 Colts gets shot nearly every range trip . As said above it has been on the job since 1873 and no complaints. With the added bonus of a boom, rather than the ear piercing 'crack' of a .357 when in the field. Go with your gut instincts. Don't let the cool word 'Magnum' distract you.

[LOLBELL]

Originally Posted by rclark

And me, the .45 Colts gets shot nearly every range trip . As said above it has been on the job since 1873 and no complaints. With the added bonus of a boom, rather than the ear piercing 'crack' of a .357 when in the field. Go with your gut instincts. Don't let the cool word 'Magnum' distract you.

45c has been around a very long time. Anything a 357 can do a 45 can do better. Any gun is better than no gun, a well placed shot is better than no shot, and a bigger hole is a better hole.

[Sarge]

Originally Posted by Jacket67

I'm interested in a Ruger Blackhawk with the convertible cylinders, or a Redhawk that allows moon clips for a "conversion". Deciding between .45 colt or .357 magnum. I'd love to own a .45 colt and have .45 acp already in the mix. I'd also love to own .357 and already have 9mm, which the Blackhawk has a cylinder for. To my knowledge, the .45 colt Redhawk is the only one of the two calibers that offers the option for moon clips with the respective shorter cartridges.

The main purpose of getting the revolver would be for woods carry in Colorado, particularly when hunting/fishing. I know that .45 colt can be loaded up to ~454 casull levels, but I'm currently not in a position to reload or heading into griz country any time soon.

Mountain lions, black bear, moose, and now wolves (albeit very few) are the main 4-legged threats in the woods that I know of. Would .357 mag handle these situations on the slim chance I'd need to?

I like that the .357 Blackhawk convertible shoots 3 calibers (.357, .38, 9mm), and I'd eventually pair it up with a Henry lever. I also have two 9mm pistols so ammo commonality is still there. But, I do really like the idea of owning .45 colt and having another option to shoot .45acp as well. From what I've seen with the current pandemic, .357/.38 is often sold out but I've been to 2 local stores that had .45 colt readily stocked (a plus in my mind of owning a less-popular caliber).

Of the two caliber options, which would you buy if you were in my shoes? Whatever caliber I don't get now, I will end up with at some point. Just want to make a better pick for my current situation.

I would definitely go with the 45 Redhawk.

[GeauxTide]

1. Heave a 285gr SWC 1057fps
2. Blow through hogs and deer to 40 yards, at any angle.
3. Leaves large exit wound.
4. Cases last forever with the 10gr Unique load with aforementioned bullet.
5. No punishing recoil.
6. No loud muzzle blast.
7. Shooting a cartridge that has successfully migrated from Black Powder to modern propellants.

[Hanshi]

.357 vs .45 Colt is pretty much a "flip of the coin" type question. Get either and you'll be well armed. I've killed a bunch of deer with the three magnums, mostly with .357s. But I've never used the .45 Colt on them. Still my primary woods roaming sidearm is a long owned, slightly modified three screw 4-5/8" BH. This revolver also has an extra acp cylinder that doesn't often get used. My handload gets 1060 fps with a 265 grn swc. I've taken lots of smaller game with it but never a deer. I find it pleasant to shoot and super accurate.

Both have the ability to get one's hiney unstuck with the .45 giving greater penetration, if that's a concern. Generally my holster holds a 4" .38 spl or 4" .22LR, but that's in more "civilized" forests. If I expect there may be things that bite or claw lurking, then I pick up the .45. The .45 Colt is at it's best when it's reloaded to fit a particular need.
In a .357 this is what's in the holster the most.

When it might just hit the fan while roaming, this is with me.

[Radny97]

I thought of one thing 357 can do that 45 Colt can’t. It’s minor, but it is something. With 125 gr bullets out of a 357 rifle i can reach 2460 fps (I’ve personally chronoed it). That’s enough to cause hydrostatic shock reliably. The 45 Colt can’t do that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[44 AMP]

I've driven 125jhp to 2200fps (clocked) from a Marlin carbine.

At that speed there is no 125jhp pistol bullet that performs properly. They are seriously overdriven, often expand violently (think grenade) when that hit anything (and that includes a blade of grass or sheet of paper) and are erratic in performance and often in accuracy. Penetration is poor, nd can cause a horrific wound to the surface tissue without getting to vital organs.

Been there, done that, found disappointing results.

158gr soft points (topping out at 18-1900ish do generally perform better, expanding a lot, but, generally, not blowing up and penetrating enough to be useful.

I think if you shot a 125gr JHP from a .45 Colt in a rifle (sabot bullet?) you'd see some truly impressive velocity figures, but down range performance with a bullet designed to open up at pistol speeds won't be good for big game animals.

[Pathfinder45]

The 45 Colt has a much higher power to decibel ratio. That matters if you hunt without hearing protection. Both calibers have advantages over the other. But those advantages come with trade-offs that mostly are not free. The most-free advantage of the 357 is that the ammo weighs about half as much. Most of the revolvers for either one are six-shooters, but there are some 7 or 8-shot 357's.
If handloading, you can get the decibels of the 357 down to 45 Colt levels, but then your power is down to 38 Special levels at best.
Since the 357 magnum can shoot a bullet of perhaps half the weight of a 45 Colt, and at twice the velocity, it will have a flatter trajectory that a few fellows might be able to take advantage of...
I consider the two calibers to be of comparable, though never fully equal power in standard loadings. Handloaded in Ruger Blackhawks, the 45 Colt can leave the 357 way behind; it can equal the 44 Magnum, and even though the decibels have gone up, it's still not as high as the 357 or the 44 magnums.
If you've split a lot of firewood, you know that there is a place for a kindling hatchet, an axe, and an honest-to-goodness splitting maul. You can't swing the Maul quite as fast, but it can bust knots that the axe can't begin to touch. Dang, it comes down with authority!
I vote 45 Colt.

[Radny97]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

I've driven 125jhp to 2200fps (clocked) from a Marlin carbine.

At that speed there is no 125jhp pistol bullet that performs properly. They are seriously overdriven, often expand violently (think grenade) when that hit anything (and that includes a blade of grass or sheet of paper) and are erratic in performance and often in accuracy. Penetration is poor, nd can cause a horrific wound to the surface tissue without getting to vital organs.

Been there, done that, found disappointing results.

158gr soft points (topping out at 18-1900ish do generally perform better, expanding a lot, but, generally, not blowing up and penetrating enough to be useful.

I think if you shot a 125gr JHP from a .45 Colt in a rifle (sabot bullet?) you'd see some truly impressive velocity figures, but down range performance with a bullet designed to open up at pistol speeds won't be good for big game animals.

Very true. I’ve experimented with many many 125 grain 357 bullets out of my rifle trying to find one that will hold together at those velocities. The best is the Sierra jsp, followed by the gold dot. Each will go through about 4 gallon water jugs and does not break apart. Everything else only goes through two jugs before exploding like a grenade just like you said.
I’ve yet to try any on live game but hope to soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk