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March 10, 2021, 11:15 PM | #26 | |
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March 10, 2021, 11:18 PM | #27 | |
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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March 11, 2021, 01:25 AM | #28 | |
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March 11, 2021, 01:36 AM | #29 | |
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The Appalachian Trail is a special case. Portions of it may exist through right of adverse possession -- I don't know that, but I'll concede that it's possible. Where the AT crosses through my state -- and where other, state trails run -- it requires permission of the landowners, and I know of sections that were re-routed when ownership changed and the new owners declined to allow people to continue crossing their property. I know Wikipedia isn't exactly "authoritative," but it's a starting point, and the article has extensive external references for those who want to learn more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-fields_doctrine
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March 11, 2021, 11:24 AM | #30 |
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Likely would not get tossed. Officer saw the items in plain view from a place where he had a right to be (pursuant to the open fields doctrine). If the illicit nature of the item was obvious, then it would come in under the plain view doctrine.
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March 11, 2021, 12:36 PM | #31 | |
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The premise implicit in a couple of posts is that regular police take a game warden along to get them onto property without a warrant. Once there, the police or game warden then conduct a thorough search for evidence or contraband without a warrant. My off-the-cuff view is that seizing something in plain sight would be kosher, but anything not in plain sight (and not related to enforcement of fish and game laws) would not be legitimized by the presence of a game warden. But I don't like to opine on such questions without doing the research.
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March 11, 2021, 05:47 PM | #32 | |||
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Unless the property is posted "No Trespassing", its perfectly legal to walk on private property without any need to ask the landowner. It happens literally millions of times per minute in every state in the country. Quote:
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Kinda difficult to go trick or treating without walking on somone else's property. Ever been to the grocery store? Private property.
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March 11, 2021, 06:48 PM | #33 | |||
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In MY state it's unlawful (i.e. "illegal") to enter on or cross someone else's property without their permission. That said, in this state there are three degrees of "criminal" trespass, and there is also "simple" trespass. The three degrees of criminal trespass are crimes -- misdemeanors. Simple trespass is an infraction. According to state law, one is guilty of simple trespass if one enters property knowing that one is not "licensed or privileged to do so," without intention of doing harm. The bottom line is that just because it's not a criminal offense doesn't mean it's not unlawful.
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March 11, 2021, 08:47 PM | #34 | |
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March 12, 2021, 04:33 AM | #35 | ||
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There is also SCOTUS case law that I believe would be applicable. This taken from Skinner v. Railway Labor Executives Assc. Skinner, 489 U.S. at 614 Quote:
None of which deals with open fields. Open fields is another animal, and though I do see some states have challenged open fields I wouldn't want to base my freedom on a successful challenge of it.
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March 12, 2021, 07:11 PM | #36 |
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Aguila Blanca said, "In MY state it's unlawful (i.e. "illegal") to enter on or cross someone else's property without their permission."
That seems to mean that every time anyone walks up to anyone else's front door to knock, they have engaged in an illegal act, regardless of their reason for knocking. I find that hard to believe. |
March 12, 2021, 07:28 PM | #37 | ||
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Trespass is: Trespass is a tort (a civil wrong for which the injured party may seek compensation for any damages caused by the actor). Under some circumstances, trespass can also be a crime. However, entering onto unrestricted property to knock on the front door or to leave a package is generally legally innocuous By hypophysis there's been no damage, and a court could find some implied permission to enter onto private property for such limited purposes. But if you approach my front door trampling my prize rose bushes (instead of sticking to the designated path), I can most likely successfully sue you for the damage you cause based on your trespass.
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April 8, 2021, 05:18 PM | #38 |
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I remember reading about a couple of cases that I suspect inspired the OP's legal quest. If memory serves, state game wardens ( by whatever title ) had placed trail cams on private property that were facing the property owners domicile and driveway, not necessarily just game land. The property owners removed the equipment, and then faced criminal charges for the removal of the equipment.
I would guess that this matter is still working its way through the system, and the OP is searching for folks in similar circumstances, as the allegations made by the property owners against the state show an unsettling tendency for the state to set up surreptitious surveillance under the guise of conservation, or atleast the ability to do so. As a property owner myself, I am used to occasional trespass and pretty understanding about giving state officials access for several reasons, but the idea that equipment would be secretly installed to monitor my personal activities is something that I would want to investigate and litigate. |
April 8, 2021, 05:29 PM | #39 | |
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April 8, 2021, 10:08 PM | #40 |
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Game Wardens have always been responsive to my family, as Texas land owners.
Poachers and destructive trespassers are not on my team. Something has happened recently here in Texas and I'm not sure what. For as long as I can remember their pick-up trucks have always had "State Police" on the tailgate. The last couple of their trucks that I noticed didn't have it on the tailgate. I don't think anyone is seeking to de-fund them. |
April 9, 2021, 09:15 AM | #41 | |
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April 9, 2021, 09:16 AM | #42 | |
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April 9, 2021, 09:48 AM | #43 | |
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April 9, 2021, 11:46 AM | #44 | ||
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When discussing legal matters, verifiability and details are important. Quote:
Your opinion is, on the other hand, pulled out of thin air -- based on uncorroborated hearsay and supported by imaginary "precedent." So cite legal authority (statute/case law) to support your assertion that civil forfeiture laws, which authorize governmental agencies to seize property used for criminal activity (and which are under attack) is precedent for the seizure of government property by a private citizen. Your "goose, gander" nonsense is not legal authority unless a court has so ruled.
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April 9, 2021, 12:00 PM | #45 | |
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https://ij.org/case/tennessee-open-fields/ |
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April 9, 2021, 12:04 PM | #46 |
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20 seconds worth of google-fu and you could have found it.
https://www.thedailyscoop.com/news/r...me-open-fields In a related story https://www.cnet.com/news/court-oks-...lance-cameras/ |
April 9, 2021, 12:11 PM | #47 | ||
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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April 9, 2021, 12:40 PM | #48 | |
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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April 9, 2021, 02:44 PM | #49 |
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I can't imagine trying to claim public property under some guise of 'private' civil forfeiture is going to end up in any way like you would hope.
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April 9, 2021, 03:16 PM | #50 |
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I should have provided the story earlier, however, I admit to being a bit bothered by the suggestion that the original poster was trying to get people to break the law simply for the opportunity to bring a case. That ridiculous assertion needed to be challenged, and I chose to do so by providing an anecdote that I thought had been widely circulated within the hunting community.
Back on topic, I do wonder WHY the state would try to use open fields to justify long term surveillance. Is there a problem with the warrant process when it comes to game and wildlife infractions? |
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