Update on the Philly OC case - radio interview with the chief - Page 5

Musketeer · May 23, 2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

I believe it is well established that an accomplished handgunner can draw and shoot before your brain can send a message for your finger to pull the trigger on a gun you are holding on a suspect.

and Shia LeBouf can make bullets curve around objects. No, it is not an established fact. It is an utter fallacy but feel free to test it.

hogdogs · May 23, 2011, 05:48 PM

I have no intent to EVER LEGALLY carry a concealed weapon. EVER!!!

I am not of the mind set that I can get the gun out from under cover and brought to bear quickly enuff to justify carrying it.

I am left side strong but a right hand shooter. My left arm is of little use for helping me get my gun ready to bear.

I need the ability to carry a gun I can un holster, draw and operate with my right (weakside in the dexterity dept.) hand.

I also have little use for the dinky guns most carry concealed.

Give me a revolver with 4.5-6 inch barrel or a full size 1911 and open carried and I would be GOLDEN!!!

Until OC in FLA is legal, I am just goin' with the ol' Buck 110 and/or 119!
Brent

Musketeer · May 23, 2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

I am not of the mind set that I can get the gun out from under cover and brought to bear quickly enuff to justify carrying it

1. Practice
2. Situational Awareness allows one to reduce the delay to draw and engage.
3. Not every situation requires split second drawing and firing. Better to have it for those than for none at all.
3. A smaller 38/9mm or other arm is more than adequet for most 2 legged encounters.
4. Practice (repeat until capable).

zxcvbob · May 23, 2011, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:
I believe it is well established that an accomplished handgunner can draw and shoot before your brain can send a message for your finger to pull the trigger on a gun you are holding on a suspect.
and Shia LeBouf can make bullets curve around objects. No, it is not an established fact. It is an utter fallacy but feel free to test it.

I've seen Clint Eastwood do it in several movies!

(not the curve-a-bullet thing)

It probably is possible with enough practice with a revolver in a quick-draw holster with no retention system at all. Not what I would want to carry openly because it'd be too easy to grab.

I think I'd rather take my chances rushing the guy holding the gun on me. Even there I'm probably gonna take one bullet. Pretty poor odds, but better than being executed if it looks like it's headed that way. And it hardly seems relevant to the discussion at hand so if I had any sense I wouldn't even post this (yeah, right)

hogdogs · May 23, 2011, 06:43 PM

Smaller may be fine but a nail clipper can be lethal too yet I won't tote one.

Another very big reason for my preference of OC is reduced costs... I simply cannot afford the gear. A 10 dollar holster is hard to find for CC but examples abound for OC.

Brent

Jim March · May 23, 2011, 07:23 PM

Wilddidn'treadthePAconstitutionAlaska:

http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Constitution.html

Right to Bear Arms
Section 21.
"The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."

But obviously, it can't mean exactly what it says on it's face, so we have no civil rights and cops can assault us at will. Right?

Sigh.

OK. Let's back up a sec. There's another separate but intersecting trend going on nationally. Cops are regularly assaulting people who point cameras at them. One of the worst took place in Las Vegas recently - the video of the cop's assault survived (unexpectedly) and the guy jailed (wrongfully) for assault on the cop was cleared.

Carlos Miller's "Photography Is Not A Crime" blog documents scads of these cases. And in fact he paid attention to the PA case we're talking about, because the current criminal charges do appear to be retaliation against the guy for recording and publishing the audio track of these cops acting like rampaging barbarians.

If a cop walks up to somebody and tries to snatch the camera away from somebody in one of the majority of the states where public video is legal, that is also assault. It's not assault with a deadly weapon thank God, but these cases are common enough (with Carlos alone publishing roughly a dozen a month!) that an escalation to an armed conflict seems inevitable, eventually. What happens when a cop tries to grab a camera, gets pushed away (because resisting police assault is still legal in every single state), the cop gets mad and goes for a gun? Simple assault just went to assault with a deadly weapon...and both parties are starting with holstered guns. Oh, and in the majority of these cases, the cop is solo.

Somebody is eventually going to get shot.

I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT! I am not saying I'm going to shoot anyone. I am simply making a prediction based on the frequency of these cases.

What needs to change before things get to that point, is that law enforcement needs to fully understand that they have never been given the right to commit assault. And it sure as hell doesn't help when we have a police chief of a major city advocating assault by his officers.

Wildalaska · May 23, 2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Wilddidn'treadthePAconstitutionAlaska

Wild is well familiar with the PA constution, which means whatever the PA Supreme Court say it does.

Bet it doesnt say a cop cant stop an OC'er and question him

Quote:

Cops are regularly assaulting people who point cameras at them.

Regularly? Gimme a break......

This whole thread has turned into an excuse to bash cops and allow some folks to put forth their political agendas.

WildandivenowreachedmypostlimitonthisoneAlaska ™©2002-2011

zxcvbob · May 23, 2011, 08:09 PM

Re: Jim's last post, I'm surprised one of the semi-major networks (think Fox News or a *big* local TV station) hasn't yet hired big bruiser collegiate wrestlers or longshoremen as cameramen and gone to areas where reporters have been assaulted or arrested (I remember a few in Florida but not sure what county.) Wait for a cop to touch the camera, and "hilarity ensues". All caught on video from the backup with a cellphone.

It would be a lot easier on everybody if the good cops would run off the bad ones like in other professions.

Al Norris · May 23, 2011, 08:31 PM

Lights out.

May 23, 2011, 06:43 PM	#105
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Smaller may be fine but a nail clipper can be lethal too yet I won't tote one. Another very big reason for my preference of OC is reduced costs... I simply cannot afford the gear. A 10 dollar holster is hard to find for CC but examples abound for OC. Brent Last edited by hogdogs; May 23, 2011 at 06:49 PM.

May 23, 2011, 07:23 PM	#106
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Wilddidn'treadthePAconstitutionAlaska: http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Constitution.html Right to Bear Arms Section 21. "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned." But obviously, it can't mean exactly what it says on it's face, so we have no civil rights and cops can assault us at will. Right? Sigh. OK. Let's back up a sec. There's another separate but intersecting trend going on nationally. Cops are regularly assaulting people who point cameras at them. One of the worst took place in Las Vegas recently - the video of the cop's assault survived (unexpectedly) and the guy jailed (wrongfully) for assault on the cop was cleared. Carlos Miller's "Photography Is Not A Crime" blog documents scads of these cases. And in fact he paid attention to the PA case we're talking about, because the current criminal charges do appear to be retaliation against the guy for recording and publishing the audio track of these cops acting like rampaging barbarians. If a cop walks up to somebody and tries to snatch the camera away from somebody in one of the majority of the states where public video is legal, that is also assault. It's not assault with a deadly weapon thank God, but these cases are common enough (with Carlos alone publishing roughly a dozen a month!) that an escalation to an armed conflict seems inevitable, eventually. What happens when a cop tries to grab a camera, gets pushed away (because resisting police assault is still legal in every single state), the cop gets mad and goes for a gun? Simple assault just went to assault with a deadly weapon...and both parties are starting with holstered guns. Oh, and in the majority of these cases, the cop is solo. Somebody is eventually going to get shot. I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT! I am not saying I'm going to shoot anyone. I am simply making a prediction based on the frequency of these cases. What needs to change before things get to that point, is that law enforcement needs to fully understand that they have never been given the right to commit assault. And it sure as hell doesn't help when we have a police chief of a major city advocating assault by his officers. __________________ Jim March

May 23, 2011, 08:09 PM	#108
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Re: Jim's last post, I'm surprised one of the semi-major networks (think Fox News or a big local TV station) hasn't yet hired big bruiser collegiate wrestlers or longshoremen as cameramen and gone to areas where reporters have been assaulted or arrested (I remember a few in Florida but not sure what county.) Wait for a cop to touch the camera, and "hilarity ensues". All caught on video from the backup with a cellphone. It would be a lot easier on everybody if the good cops would run off the bad ones like in other professions. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

May 23, 2011, 05:48 PM	#102
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I have no intent to EVER LEGALLY carry a concealed weapon. EVER!!! I am not of the mind set that I can get the gun out from under cover and brought to bear quickly enuff to justify carrying it. I am left side strong but a right hand shooter. My left arm is of little use for helping me get my gun ready to bear. I need the ability to carry a gun I can un holster, draw and operate with my right (weakside in the dexterity dept.) hand. I also have little use for the dinky guns most carry concealed. Give me a revolver with 4.5-6 inch barrel or a full size 1911 and open carried and I would be GOLDEN!!! Until OC in FLA is legal, I am just goin' with the ol' Buck 110 and/or 119! Brent

May 23, 2011, 08:31 PM	#109
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Lights out.