The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Curios and Relics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 8, 2016, 10:19 AM   #1
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 11,132
Some guns just don't appreciate....

I sold an H&R .32 Self Loading pistol (sometimes "self-loader") around 1989-90 for $350 - or more accurately used it in a trade to acquire a Colt SP1 Carbine, adding about $100 IIRC to the trade for the AR. Wondering if I traded off a hidden gem prematurely back in '89, I checked Gunbroker to see what they are going for today. Starting bid prices ranging from $299 - $400 or so, but no bites. 27 years later and still selling for right around the same price I sold mine for.

I'm always perplexed at why some guns appreciate and become high-demand collectibles while others are doomed to the wastebasket of "just another old gun"
Skans is offline  
Old December 8, 2016, 01:17 PM   #2
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,685
its simply a matter of buyer (collector?) interest. Some folks seem to think everything old must be valuable. Others know better.

Quite simply it is supply and demand, and demand depends on popularity. And, popularity at the time you are looking to buy, or sell.

Have some popular movie action hero use one (or the villain use one) and you can find the price jumping, maybe even double, almost overnight.

If there's no particular demand, or a low stable demand, prices stay about the same, adjusted for our money's value.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old December 8, 2016, 06:30 PM   #3
James K
Member In Memoriam
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
Get some well-known gun writer to do an article on the H&R for the AR or G&A and the value will go up at least $100 overnight.

Jim
James K is offline  
Old December 8, 2016, 06:46 PM   #4
Gunplummer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2010
Location: South East Pa.
Posts: 3,364
^^^
That about sums it up.
Gunplummer is offline  
Old December 9, 2016, 01:25 PM   #5
Skans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2008
Posts: 11,132
James, you are 100% right about that. I have seen this happen before.
Skans is offline  
Old December 9, 2016, 01:46 PM   #6
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,453
"...why some guns appreciate and..." H&R stuff, along with H&A, IJ and a slew of other, low end, 19th Century 'pocket pistols', have been relegated to 'Saturday Night Special" class. Largely by the decree of unelected civil servants.
That kind of stuff is starting to get scarce in decent/shootable condition. It's also one of the few areas of collecting that is largely ignored and may be the only way a new collector can get started without spending his mortgage/rent money.
"...and the value will go up..." And right back down a month later.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old December 9, 2016, 02:52 PM   #7
BoogieMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2012
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 2,217
Personally I look for old guns that have managed to stay out of public interest for some reason. Some very interesting (IMO) guns that are inexpensive. Maybe I will get lucky, or just as happy to enjoy them for myself.
__________________
Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it.
Milton Freidman
"If you find yourself in a fair fight,,,
Your tactics suck"
- Unknown
BoogieMan is offline  
Old December 9, 2016, 06:20 PM   #8
Gunplummer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2010
Location: South East Pa.
Posts: 3,364
On the other hand, some guns are just junk. H&R, H&A, IJ revolvers are examples.
Gunplummer is offline  
Old December 9, 2016, 08:47 PM   #9
lamarw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2010
Location: Lake Martin, AL
Posts: 3,311
The only H&R revolver I have noticed holding value was the old octagon barrel Trapper model.

I have never handled one but remember reading about them as a kid. I think it was in "Fur Fish and Game".

Anyone know if the Trapper model is decent or not? I may just buy one someday for the heck of it.
lamarw is offline  
Old December 9, 2016, 11:12 PM   #10
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
The H&R Sportsman is most excellent.
Hawg is offline  
Old December 10, 2016, 04:10 AM   #11
Gunplummer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2010
Location: South East Pa.
Posts: 3,364
The H&R's being referred to are the old .32 and .38 revolvers made before the 1940's.
Gunplummer is offline  
Old December 10, 2016, 05:08 AM   #12
shootbrownelk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2013
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 329
Clint Eastwood using a S&W model 29 in .44 magnum in the Movie "Dirty Harry" caused S&W model 29's to be cleaned out of gun shops nationwide, and at whatever price was asked. Worked great for S&W owners. The "New" owners didn't keep them long though.
shootbrownelk is offline  
Old December 10, 2016, 05:51 AM   #13
mag1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 3, 2011
Posts: 140
High priced guns normally sold in smaller qtys than the "cheap" ones so more rare.

High priced guns normally taken better care of than "cheap" ones so usually higher condition.

High priced guns normally better workmanship and materials so more durable, therefore desirable, to most people.

High priced guns usually have more advanced features (swing out cylinders, etc) so more desirable to most people.

All that said, I recently saw some model of H&R pistol NIB at a fun show. He had what I thought was an astronomical price on that but he got it.
mag1911 is offline  
Old January 7, 2017, 05:24 PM   #14
Archie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2000
Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear
Posts: 2,209
The fickleness of public opinion

I collect 'art deco' .32 ACP pistols. (I have one of the Harrington & Richardson Self loaders mentioned in the OP.) One of the reasons I started collecting old .32 autos was they were cheap. Lugers and Colt SAAs were way out of my grasp. Now, they've been 'discovered'. Forty years ago, gun shops and pawn shops could not GIVE Spanish made .32s away. Two years ago I found and purchased a nice Astra 300 for around $500 U. S. dollars.

I also collect WWI era rifles, especially military rifles. The U. S. rifles are expensive - Krags, M1903s and M1917s - but many European rifles are still 'comfortable' in price. Of course, some are difficult to find ammunition. (I have one rifle for which I must form cases from another caliber.) And they're getting rare - at least 'scarcer'. The rifles are still around, but they've been sporterized.

So why do some go up and others don't? Supply and demand, as usual. In this case, mostly demand. No one wants a 'Raven'. Probably, (hopefully?) not in another hundred years, either.
__________________
There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus.
Archie

Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/
Archie is offline  
Old January 7, 2017, 09:02 PM   #15
James K
Member In Memoriam
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
Obviously at least some of the posters are not aware that H&R made auto pistols c.1912-1920. They resembled the British Webley pistols (yes, Webley made auto pistols, also) and were made under a license from the British company. They were odd looking, but worked OK. About 16,500 were made in .25 ACP and some 34,000 in .32 ACP. Unlike the Webleys, the H&R pistols had a striker firing mechanism rather than a hammer.

By all rights they should be high on any auto pistol collector's "wanted" list, but as noted, they excite little interest.

While Colt pistols are considered highly collectible, other American pistols of that era that, like the H&R, have only moderate collector interest are the Savage, the S&W (.35 and .32), the Fiala, and the Davis-Warner.

Jim
James K is offline  
Old January 7, 2017, 09:46 PM   #16
Gunplummer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2010
Location: South East Pa.
Posts: 3,364
Some of the least appreciating guns I have seen are the "Commemorative" guns.
Gunplummer is offline  
Old January 8, 2017, 03:50 AM   #17
shootniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,599
Well, I suppose that it is a good think that I don't buy them for their appreciation potential.
shootniron is offline  
Old January 8, 2017, 10:05 PM   #18
James K
Member In Memoriam
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
Commemorative guns might have kept their value had not a few companies overdone the whole idea. As one of my friends put it, "Colt put out a commemorative for every time Sam Colt took a [censored] and it went from a good idea to just plain silly."

In general, the idea of "creating" a collectors' item just won't work, at least when they are mass produced. Oddly, most real collectors items were failures when produced, and part of the attraction is the rarity of guns no one wanted.

Jim
James K is offline  
Old January 24, 2017, 09:53 AM   #19
oldscot3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2007
Location: texas
Posts: 997
Quote:
In general, the idea of "creating" a collectors' item just won't work, at least when they are mass produced.
Totally agree, and though not a handgun, I own a very good example, a Savage 1895, 75th Anniversary commemorative. It's almost totally loathed by Savage 99 collectors for it's gaudy brass appointments, caliber chambering which is 308 Win instead of a more traditional Savage round like 300 Savage, and production numbers which was in the thousands.

It's value these days is less than any "regular" Savage 99 though it has all the same features such as rotary magazine with round counter, pop-up loaded chamber indicator, etc that are so appreciated by the collectors.

On the positive side though, I have a nice 99 to take hunting, that has all the nice features and was affordable. Also, if I were to customize it, perhaps replace the buttstock with one that has a pad rather than chunk of crescent shaped brass, few would be outraged.
oldscot3 is offline  
Old February 1, 2017, 06:58 PM   #20
Chris_B
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2007
Posts: 3,101
The comment about "its old, must be worth money" is on the mark.

It's about 75% of the reason I don't mess with classic cars any more. Everybody thinks their old part must be worth a mint.

Sometimes I smile to myself about old firearm prices, as a few grand is a drop in the bucket compared to many classic car parts, but in reality, I see a lot of parallel between the two hobbies re: prices going up for the sole reason that people think the parts must be worth money. And some percentage of people buy them, and now they are "worth" at least that much to the current owner.
Chris_B is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.09902 seconds with 10 queries