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Old April 8, 2021, 02:24 PM   #1
KyJim
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Biden's Proposed Gun Control Measures

Per Fox News, Biden has ordered:

1. DOJ to promulgate a rule within 30 days banning "ghost" guns;

2. DOJ to propose a new rule on gun braces within 60 days;

3. DOJ to propose action on "community violence intervention," whatever that means (I would suggest enforcing current firearms laws and states like California quit letting violent felons out early);

4. DOJ to promulgate "red flag" laws;

5. Issue a report on gun trafficking (I assume the report will castigate the BATF for their trafficking of guns) .

Biden also is supporting bans on "assault rifles" and high capacity magazines and also supports closing the "gun show loophole."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bid...cutive-actions
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Old April 8, 2021, 03:12 PM   #2
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1) Not sure most bad guys build guns in their garages. I'd love to see the data showing this is a real issues, but I doubt Papa Joe will do so. However, I suspect it plays well on Twitter.

2) Again, not sure how many violent crimes are being committed with AR Pistols, but again, you have to admit it is an easy "target" based on appearance.

3) Maybe this means more Social Workers riding with Cops. Somehow I doubt it means stricter enforcement and penalties for violent criminals.

4) This is concerning because I've seen people treated negatively in Family Court just because they own a gun not because they are actually violent. Might this make gun owners more susceptible to penalties just for being a gun owner.

5) I fear this will be targeted at Second Amendment friendly States and call for harsher restrictions in those States. After all we know that gun violence in Chicago is a result of Georgia's gun laws and not Chicago's failed policies.


I guess one question is - Why? I may disagree with Biden on almost everything, but you don't become President by being dumb. So, why is he attacking the Second Amendment? Is this designed to draw more and more young urban/suburban voters who know little about guns to his Party? At the end of the day it seems to have little to do with violence and everything to do with maintaining and increasing Political Power.
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Old April 8, 2021, 03:21 PM   #3
Carl the Floor Walker
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Not sure what Biden is going to do. Never even heard of the AFT. It would be interesting to see reporters ask him to define all the terms he is throwing out there, like Ghost Guns etc. so we can hear it directly from Our President. So many questions need to be asked. Some true statistics for one.

https://amgreatness.com/2021/04/08/b...trol-measures/
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Old April 8, 2021, 03:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryLee View Post
I guess one question is - Why? I may disagree with Biden on almost everything, but you don't become President by being dumb. So, why is he attacking the Second Amendment?
Because many people (Biden included) although smart, know very little about guns. And they have no interest in their use.

So when a complex topic such as violence comes across, they reach for the easiest most apparent conclusion, which is that "guns foster violence". They reason that "no guns, no gun violence". Which we all know is not true. Besides, they ignore the OTHER kinds of violence: knives, clubs, fists, etc. that takes place in the absence of guns. They don't seem to remember that the 9/11 hijackers brought down those planes and landed a blow to the heart of the USA by using box cutter knives, for crying out loud!

So what happens with most anti-gunners in my opinion is not that they have an evil intent, but just that they are ignorant. They would abolish 2A if they could, convinced that it would be great for society and democracy at large.

They are just ignorant about the topic.

Their thinking is akin to the thinking that "eating fat makes you fat", or "eating cholesterol raises your cholesterol". It seems like it would be common sense, but it is not true!

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
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Old April 8, 2021, 03:47 PM   #5
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I'm pretty sure there is a bit of histrionics in this. THere is no language about 'banning' anything.
Here is the actual language used:
  • The Justice Department, within 30 days, will issue a proposed rule to help stop the proliferation of “ghost guns.”
  • The Justice Department, within 60 days, will issue a proposed rule to make clear when a device marketed as a stabilizing brace effectively turns a pistol into a short-barreled rifle subject to the requirements of the National Firearms Act.
  • The Justice Department, within 60 days, will publish model “red flag” legislation for states.
  • The Administration is investing in evidence-based community violence interventions.
  • The Justice Department will issue an annual report on firearms trafficking
  • The President will nominate David Chipman to serve as Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
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Old April 8, 2021, 04:19 PM   #6
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Thank you KyJim an ghbucky for your posts about this.

Just to be a smart alec let me say I'm just glad none of the proposals "in any way impinges on the second amendment" (sarcasm off)

I got the quote from this site:
https://amgreatness.com/2021/04/08/b...trol-measures/
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Old April 8, 2021, 05:25 PM   #7
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For the most part, these are reminiscent of the "executive actions" President Obama issued in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting. They seem like nice gestures, but gestures are all they are.

Real changes on things like homemade firearms or red-flag laws require actual laws to be changed. That's the province of the legislature, not the executive branch. So, why do this? Because he knows these things don't stand a chance in the legislature. That's actually a good thing.

Now, his appointment of Chipman to the ATF is very disturbing. Chipman doesn't just support gun control, he's been an open advocate for it working for Giffords' group. He's gone on record as supporting full bans on "assault weapons," and he's an apologist for the bureau's actions in the Waco tragedy.
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Old April 8, 2021, 05:43 PM   #8
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Aside from wanting to appoint a proven pro-guncontrol to head the ATF (he does need to be approved by the Senate, right?) the rest is mostly "direcing the DOJ to come up with plans to implement what he wants (if possible), and there is an amount of wiggle room between what they can do (and get away with) and needing to actually have the law changed.

Congratulations to the idiots on the Internet /U tube bragging about their "ghost guns" and pistol "braces". Hope you got what you wanted, because now that you've made the point, the rest of us are looking at having legal pistols reclassified as SBRs and possibly the banning or restricting of ALL spare parts.

The Antis would be quite happy (temporarily) if we all had to go through a dealer and pass a background check (and of course, pay for it) to get a firing pin or a spring because its a gun part and somebody might make a gun from it.

We'll fight it, of course, but if it does come to pass, I'm going to hold you responsible.
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Old April 8, 2021, 05:55 PM   #9
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Is it law that 80% guns are not considered firearms, or is that an ATF determination?
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Old April 8, 2021, 06:53 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ghbucky
Is it law that 80% guns are not considered firearms, or is that an ATF determination?
It's a BATFE interpretation of the law.

The law says that we are allowed to make (or "manufacture," I don't have the law in fron of me) our own firearms for our own personal use. The question was: how much of the work does the owner have to perform in order to claim that he (or she) made it? The BATFE decided (I don't know on what basis) that if the owner does at least 20% of the work, it qualifies as a home-built firearm.
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Old April 8, 2021, 08:24 PM   #11
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politicians just like to make noise, that's their job. Todays "announcements " make liberals feel like their guys are working to keep them safe and vote for liberal politicians and enrage the conservatives so they will vote for the conservative politicians. My gut feeling is this is a whole lot of nothing. Politicians really don't want to enact meaningful laws, they just want to be reelected. If they ever accomplished anything, there would be no need to re elect them
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Old April 8, 2021, 08:26 PM   #12
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How are they going to address the millions of AR pistols already out there?

What about the millions of 80% receivers out there? I mean a lot of them are now completed and firearms.
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Old April 8, 2021, 10:49 PM   #13
KyJim
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There is no language about 'banning' anything.
You are correct regarding the ghost guns. That word was not explicitly used. That is my interpretation of what they plan on trying to do through executive orders and rule-making.
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Old April 8, 2021, 11:14 PM   #14
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Real changes on things like homemade firearms or red-flag laws require actual laws to be changed.
Quote:
There is no language about 'banning' anything.
Hmm you guys must have missed it . No Biden didn't say it , the federal government will give out incentives for states to do it for them . Like tax brakes , grants and who knows what else .
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Old April 9, 2021, 12:53 AM   #15
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The 2A says "The right of the People to Keep and Bear...." Not "The Right of the Militia" The Right of THE PEOPLE.

It says nothing about the right to find a gun in stock to purchase. Dicks can stop selling guns.

Any of the manufacturers,like Remington, can get out of the business.

Litigation,regulation,taxes,etc can make that happen.

It may be difficult. It may be beyond the capability of all but a few,

But ultimately,the RTKBA is rooted in the idea the individual can make his own gun.

Its important.

"If I can't buy one,I can make one" That is a most fundamental freedom.

Without that....we could not have made it to the stone age.
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Old April 9, 2021, 03:50 AM   #16
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The Justice Department, within 30 days, will issue a proposed rule to help stop the proliferation of “ghost guns.”
I’ll bet if you asked one of us and a liberal, you would get 2 polar opposite meaning for this phrase. A liberal believes this means stop the practice of ordering AR15 parts kits online and stop building mass quantities of untraceable ghost guns that must be the cause of all these shootings.

We hear, change the 80% rule to something like 75% rule with no impact to AR15 building, except as related to using 80% lowers as a starting point which is relatively rare case anyways.
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Old April 9, 2021, 07:12 AM   #17
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We hear, change the 80% rule to something like 75% rule with no impact to AR15 building, except as related to using 80% lowers as a starting point which is relatively rare case anyways.
Given this administration, I wouldn't expect a shift of 80 to 75, I'd more expect a shift to 0%. I expect they will try to kill that entire industry.

What I find ironic is that they put immediate deadlines on actions that have no connection or only anecdotal connection to crime, and then say that the DOJ must publish annual gun trafficking reports.

In a sane world, shouldn't they want to find out how criminals are getting guns before taking action? I know, the answer is obvious.
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Old April 9, 2021, 01:34 PM   #18
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Right now, we are going to have to wait 30 days / 60 days for "the other shoe to drop".

Doesn't make squat that the Pres has ordered DOJ to come up with PROPOSALS for rule changes.

What matters is what those proposals will be, and what gets done about them, and for that, we have to wait until they actually propose the changes.

A couple of points to consider, first about "ghost guns". Ok, so various agencies are reporting more and more of them showing up in crimes (or more often, seized at crime scenes). If those guns are not being seized from their original owners/makers, then various existing Federal laws have already been broken. Anyone who is making guns and selling them WITHOUT following federal law (which means having the required licenses) is already breaking multiple laws.

NO "new" law or change to regulation will affect this.

Next point is about pistol braces. The ATF has reclassified what is, and isn't a legal pistol stock several times over the years. It is established precedent that they have the authority to do that "in house" without needing a change to the law to do so.

So it is plausible that the ATF could, under executive order and within its already established authority, reclassify pistol braces as stocks.

Until they come out with their proposed plans, all we can do is speculate, and wait.
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Old April 9, 2021, 01:51 PM   #19
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Tom Servo is correct, the appointment of Chipman is VERY disturbing.

Further, I had to chuckle when Biden said "AFT".
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Old April 9, 2021, 02:39 PM   #20
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Anyone who is making guns and selling them WITHOUT following federal law (which means having the required licenses) is already breaking multiple laws.

NO "new" law or change to regulation will affect this.
I fully disagree , because there are many people that are selling "ghost" guns that would not if they were registered in there name . The ease of selling them is the fact you can mil it out and sell it and NOBODY knows you did that . People are more willing to break the law if they know they have very little chance of getting caught . Not only will it effect things in that way , the government will now have a place to start back tracking where the "ghost" gun came from .

We've had many threads recently about the braces . No way they don't become and NFA item . The one thing that may stop it is people just taking them off . In that regard a pistol is a pistol so maybe they ban the braces but why they look and can be used as a stock which are legal . This one IMHO will be interesting to see what they come up with .
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Old April 9, 2021, 02:42 PM   #21
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A couple of points to consider, first about "ghost guns". Ok, so various agencies are reporting more and more of them showing up in crimes (or more often, seized at crime scenes). If those guns are not being seized from their original owners/makers, then various existing Federal laws have already been broken. Anyone who is making guns and selling them WITHOUT following federal law (which means having the required licenses) is already breaking multiple laws.
I'm interested in any kind of stats/breakdowns on this. I would have expected if this were a growing problem we would be seeing in-depth investigations and endless editorials about their growing use in crime. But I haven't seen anything like that.

Ergo: my conclusion is that this a miniscule to non-existent problem.
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Old April 9, 2021, 02:54 PM   #22
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Ergo: my conclusion is that this a miniscule to non-existent problem.
That's irrelevant to the gun grabbers , need not look any further then "assault rifles" and trying to ban them . Long guns /rifles represent a miniscule amount of all deaths/murders by people using guns each year .

This is from several years ago but I suspect the percentages are still similar today


Note I said long guns/rifles , break that down to assault rifles and its infinitesimal and yet they are the great satin of firearms and must be banned .
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Old April 9, 2021, 04:11 PM   #23
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Hmm you guys must have missed it . No Biden didn't say it , the federal government will give out incentives for states to do it for them . Like tax brakes , grants and who knows what else .
Or withholding highway funds and other largesse which the feds return to the states for various "reasons". States which tend to have tight gun control laws will comply. States with more loosely defined gun control laws may not.
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Old April 9, 2021, 04:21 PM   #24
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Further, I had to chuckle when Biden said "AFT".
Three times, no less. The thing is, there were dozens of people Biden could have nominated. He chose THIS guy? Chipman is on the advisory board of a gun-control group, and he's been very vocal about his support for it. There's no way he can come off as unbiased.

Hopefully, his Senate hearings will bring all this to light. If you want to read some of his opinions from the horse's mouth, here's a community interview he did on Reddit.
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Old April 9, 2021, 05:51 PM   #25
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I fully disagree , because there are many people that are selling "ghost" guns that would not if they were registered in there name . The ease of selling them is the fact you can mil it out and sell it and NOBODY knows you did that . People are more willing to break the law if they know they have very little chance of getting caught . Not only will it effect things in that way , the government will now have a place to start back tracking where the "ghost" gun came from .
I disagree with your disagreement!

Sort of.

I've been thinking about the statement a bit, and here's where I see the flaws,

The people making and selling ghost guns, right now, ARE breaking the law, IF they are not giving them a serial # and registering them with the Fed at the time of sale. SO, the people already breaking the law are going to be stopped by another law??? I'm doubtful of that.

"mill it out and sell it and nobody will know" yep, also a violation of existing law. How is any change/new law going to change that?

Are they going to require ser# and registration of receiver blanks? Remember that 80% blank is not a firearm UNTIL its finished (beyond the 80% limit at least). SO are we going to require firearms registration for things that are not firearms? What is the legal authority for this?? WHO gets to decide what they are? The ATF?? CONGRESS??? THe Pres via executive order???

My point is, the people who are supposedly making ghost guns and supplying them to criminals are breaking multiple laws, and they KNOW they are. No new or change to the existing law will stop them, Arresting and convicting them will stop them, for a while, anyway.

You could really slow down the current ghost gun supply simply by outlawing the sale of AR lowers... but unfinished ones aren't guns, so where's the justification for doing that, and putting several thousand innocent people out of work in the process? I don't see that, anywhere, and I shudder to see the day it appears.
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