Check it out - New Enfield NO5 MKI

Capybara · March 23, 2014, 07:01 PM

Hi all:

Wow, my second Enfield in less than a month, hope this isn't like a case of Mosinitis. Bought from a fellow Calgunner, nice guy, rifle looked like a good deal and will be fun to shoot. To me, this rifle has just the right amount of wear. The more C&Rs I own, the less I like my "perfect" ones and the more I dig the ones with some honest wear like this one. 1947 ROF (F), non-matching, "Jungle Carbine". I don't know a lot about the history of these, other than the most obvious so I would appreciate any feedback or comments from our Enfield experts. I like my M44s better than my 91/30s so the idea of carbine Enfield is appealing to me. It is a four digit serial, I just got rid of the last two numbers and yes, I know I am paranoid.

Capybara · March 23, 2014, 07:02 PM

z

Capybara · March 23, 2014, 07:03 PM

DennisCA · March 24, 2014, 03:53 PM

Awesome!

It looks like that gun has been around the block a few times; oh the stories this gun could tell!

Why be paranoid, YOU have the guns - people should be paranoid of you!

BTW - Nice job fellow calgunner!

wogpotter · March 24, 2014, 04:15 PM

With a non-matching bolt you should have the headspace checked, or check it yourself if you have gauges.

This matters more with Lee-Enfields than say, Mausers, because they have a detachable bolt head which is swapped to get correct headspace. If the bolt was swapped there is no way to know if the correct bolt head was fitted when the bolt was swapped out.

There is also a possible issue with non-bearing bolt lugs as they were hand fitted, which is why the bolts were serial matched to the bolt.

Other that that simple check, important if you intend to use it as a shooter, you got a nice rifle.

Chris_B · March 24, 2014, 06:13 PM

Fired a No 4 last year. If you want a rifle that tells you you've pulled the trigger, that thing is it!

Capybara · March 24, 2014, 11:22 PM

Previous owner shot it several times with no issue. Should I still buy a headspace gauge?

Nice to see you over here Dennis!

wogpotter · March 25, 2014, 07:32 AM

Its your choice, but only after checking with an 0.074 "FIELD" gauge can you be sure about headspace, only after checking for engagement can you be sure about locking lugs both engaging.

It is after all your face close to the action when you fire it, not mine.

Colt46 · March 25, 2014, 02:35 PM

My brother has one and the recoil is a little attention getting.

Ignition Override · April 1, 2014, 02:44 AM

The low-cost 1" recoil slip on pad makes it ok. That recoil with the pad is no worse than with my bare Yugo Mauser, and the pad is mostly used on the SKS, to increase the length-of-pull.

Holding one's arm in a bit of a 'chicken wing' also can help.
Life is too short to really care how it looks. At age 58, the eyes might not be able to use aperture sights for many more years anyway.
The clock is ticking.

Capybara: you have an attractive battle rifle.
We can reflect upon dead enemy troops in Burma 1945), or dead Communist insurgents in Malaysia ('56) about it's effectiveness.

PetahW · April 1, 2014, 08:38 AM

.

Install a repro issue sling, and if the headspace's OK, you're good to go............

.

Capybara · April 1, 2014, 10:43 AM

Petah, have a source for a repro sling? Does Liberty Tree have them or Sarco or ?

SIGSHR · April 1, 2014, 02:38 PM

Not paranoid-just practicing privacy.

Capybara · April 4, 2014, 01:46 PM

Just ordered a WWII Nylon Web sling from Liberty Tree. Should be nice. Will post some pics when it arrives.

gyvel · April 5, 2014, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Just ordered a WWII Nylon Web sling from Liberty Tree. Should be nice. Will post some pics when it arrives.

The nylon slings are post WW II.

Capybara · April 8, 2014, 09:41 AM

I stand corrected, Cotton Web Sling https://www.libertytreecollectors.co...&idcategory=64

deerslayer303 · April 9, 2014, 11:50 PM

Capy,
Nice jungle carbine you got there. I have one too, they are a ton of fun to shoot. The recoil is stout but not so much that it scares me away. You will love it. Thanks for posting up the link for the web sling. I still have to get one for mine.

Capybara · April 29, 2014, 05:51 PM

Wogpotter, or any other Enfield experts, I first bought the Forster Field Gauge to check the No5 Mk1 above and my No 4 Mk1 and was told that the Forster Gauge, which is set to SAAMI specs is no good for an Enfield, that I should be using a Field Gauge set up to head space at .074", if my memory serves. So I bought an Okie Field Gauge and so far, both Enfields pass with the Okie Field Gauge, neither can close the bolt on it. I didn't even open the Forster Gauge because I was told that SAAMI specs are not correct for an Enfield.

I am returning the Forster Gauge and received this reply. FWIW, I bough 200 rounds of PRVI ammo that I will be shooting through them, then I will be reloading my own using the PRVI brass. At this point, I am a bit confused about which Field Gauge I should trust, the Forster set to SAAMI specs or the Okie? I need some guidance here, I am confused. All of my other milsurps, I bought the Forster Gauges (Mosin, Mauser, K31, etc.) and have had no headspace issues.

Reply from company I bought Forster Gauge from:

"Keep in mind that the Forster gauge is set to SAAMI specs which are the standard that importers and gunsmiths are recommended to use for any rifle sold / repaired in the US for liability reasons. SAAMI adjusted the Max allowable headspace for the .303 due to various things that have changed since the day when the original Military spec of .074 was used. These include the age of these rifles, which are getting up there, as well as the various ammunition on the market today that is not the same as the original Mil spec ammo used years ago. Original Mil Surplus ammo may now have brittle cases depending on age and storage while new manufactured ammo will have different powders and may use softer US made brass in the cases. An example is the Remington .303 cases which are softer brass but still considered ok, when fired in a chamber that meets current SAAMI specs. However there are several instances where Remington cases have had case head separations when fired in .303 chambers that exceeded current SAAMI but were still within the original Mil spec Headspace. Remember that the original Mil Spec headspace of .074 was based only on the Milspec ammo that was both new condition at the time and was made to work with that spec, compared to today's newly made ammo that may be designed for the tighter more conservative SAAMI spec if it was made in the USA. Ammo made in other countries to Milspec will more likely be ok with the longer original headspace."

wogpotter · April 29, 2014, 06:13 PM

Its "lawyerfearspeak" from the vendor, just ignore it. It relates more to product liability fear than mechanical workings, like 12Lb trigger pulls.

You did the right thing getting the correct gauge & if the rifle passes you're golden.

Ask the vendor these questions:
How is a manufacturer in the 1940's overseas in the U.K. supposed to even know a foreign (to the maker) specification that doesn't match his government one actually exists at all?

If he doesn't know it exists how can he retroactively comply with it?

If it's "unsafe" how come none of the hundreds of thousands of soldiers firing millions of rounds over 5 years got hurt by the "out of (foreign) spec" headspace?

I'd be fascinated by the factual reply addressing the points.

Oh BTW the Prvi ammo is NOT made to SAAMI specs, but to the same specs the original headspace gauges are set for.

March 23, 2014, 07:01 PM	#1
Capybara Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2012 Posts: 180	Check it out - New Enfield NO5 MKI Hi all: Wow, my second Enfield in less than a month, hope this isn't like a case of Mosinitis. Bought from a fellow Calgunner, nice guy, rifle looked like a good deal and will be fun to shoot. To me, this rifle has just the right amount of wear. The more C&Rs I own, the less I like my "perfect" ones and the more I dig the ones with some honest wear like this one. 1947 ROF (F), non-matching, "Jungle Carbine". I don't know a lot about the history of these, other than the most obvious so I would appreciate any feedback or comments from our Enfield experts. I like my M44s better than my 91/30s so the idea of carbine Enfield is appealing to me. It is a four digit serial, I just got rid of the last two numbers and yes, I know I am paranoid.

March 24, 2014, 04:15 PM	#5
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	With a non-matching bolt you should have the headspace checked, or check it yourself if you have gauges. This matters more with Lee-Enfields than say, Mausers, because they have a detachable bolt head which is swapped to get correct headspace. If the bolt was swapped there is no way to know if the correct bolt head was fitted when the bolt was swapped out. There is also a possible issue with non-bearing bolt lugs as they were hand fitted, which is why the bolts were serial matched to the bolt. Other that that simple check, important if you intend to use it as a shooter, you got a nice rifle. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

March 25, 2014, 07:32 AM	#8
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Its your choice, but only after checking with an 0.074 "FIELD" gauge can you be sure about headspace, only after checking for engagement can you be sure about locking lugs both engaging. It is after all your face close to the action when you fire it, not mine. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

March 25, 2014, 02:35 PM	#9
Colt46 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: Campbell Ca Posts: 1,090	Looks well used My brother has one and the recoil is a little attention getting.

April 9, 2014, 11:50 PM	#17
deerslayer303 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Leesville SC Posts: 2,654	Capy, Nice jungle carbine you got there. I have one too, they are a ton of fun to shoot. The recoil is stout but not so much that it scares me away. You will love it. Thanks for posting up the link for the web sling. I still have to get one for mine. __________________ "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

March 23, 2014, 07:02 PM	#2
Capybara Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2012 Posts: 180	z

March 23, 2014, 07:03 PM	#3
Capybara Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2012 Posts: 180

March 24, 2014, 03:53 PM	#4
DennisCA Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2012 Location: Union City CA (a.k.a. Poople's Republik of CA) Posts: 451	Awesome! It looks like that gun has been around the block a few times; oh the stories this gun could tell! Why be paranoid, YOU have the guns - people should be paranoid of you! BTW - Nice job fellow calgunner!

March 24, 2014, 06:13 PM	#6
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Fired a No 4 last year. If you want a rifle that tells you you've pulled the trigger, that thing is it!

March 24, 2014, 11:22 PM	#7
Capybara Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2012 Posts: 180	Previous owner shot it several times with no issue. Should I still buy a headspace gauge? Nice to see you over here Dennis!

April 1, 2014, 02:44 AM	#10
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	The low-cost 1" recoil slip on pad makes it ok. That recoil with the pad is no worse than with my bare Yugo Mauser, and the pad is mostly used on the SKS, to increase the length-of-pull. Holding one's arm in a bit of a 'chicken wing' also can help. Life is too short to really care how it looks. At age 58, the eyes might not be able to use aperture sights for many more years anyway. The clock is ticking. Capybara: you have an attractive battle rifle. We can reflect upon dead enemy troops in Burma 1945), or dead Communist insurgents in Malaysia ('56) about it's effectiveness.

April 1, 2014, 08:38 AM	#11
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. Install a repro issue sling, and if the headspace's OK, you're good to go............ .

April 1, 2014, 10:43 AM	#12
Capybara Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2012 Posts: 180	Petah, have a source for a repro sling? Does Liberty Tree have them or Sarco or ?

April 1, 2014, 02:38 PM	#13
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Not paranoid-just practicing privacy.

April 4, 2014, 01:46 PM	#14
Capybara Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2012 Posts: 180	Just ordered a WWII Nylon Web sling from Liberty Tree. Should be nice. Will post some pics when it arrives.

April 8, 2014, 09:41 AM	#16
Capybara Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2012 Posts: 180	I stand corrected, Cotton Web Sling https://www.libertytreecollectors.co...&idcategory=64

April 29, 2014, 05:51 PM	#18
Capybara Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2012 Posts: 180	Wogpotter, or any other Enfield experts, I first bought the Forster Field Gauge to check the No5 Mk1 above and my No 4 Mk1 and was told that the Forster Gauge, which is set to SAAMI specs is no good for an Enfield, that I should be using a Field Gauge set up to head space at .074", if my memory serves. So I bought an Okie Field Gauge and so far, both Enfields pass with the Okie Field Gauge, neither can close the bolt on it. I didn't even open the Forster Gauge because I was told that SAAMI specs are not correct for an Enfield. I am returning the Forster Gauge and received this reply. FWIW, I bough 200 rounds of PRVI ammo that I will be shooting through them, then I will be reloading my own using the PRVI brass. At this point, I am a bit confused about which Field Gauge I should trust, the Forster set to SAAMI specs or the Okie? I need some guidance here, I am confused. All of my other milsurps, I bought the Forster Gauges (Mosin, Mauser, K31, etc.) and have had no headspace issues. Reply from company I bought Forster Gauge from: "Keep in mind that the Forster gauge is set to SAAMI specs which are the standard that importers and gunsmiths are recommended to use for any rifle sold / repaired in the US for liability reasons. SAAMI adjusted the Max allowable headspace for the .303 due to various things that have changed since the day when the original Military spec of .074 was used. These include the age of these rifles, which are getting up there, as well as the various ammunition on the market today that is not the same as the original Mil spec ammo used years ago. Original Mil Surplus ammo may now have brittle cases depending on age and storage while new manufactured ammo will have different powders and may use softer US made brass in the cases. An example is the Remington .303 cases which are softer brass but still considered ok, when fired in a chamber that meets current SAAMI specs. However there are several instances where Remington cases have had case head separations when fired in .303 chambers that exceeded current SAAMI but were still within the original Mil spec Headspace. Remember that the original Mil Spec headspace of .074 was based only on the Milspec ammo that was both new condition at the time and was made to work with that spec, compared to today's newly made ammo that may be designed for the tighter more conservative SAAMI spec if it was made in the USA. Ammo made in other countries to Milspec will more likely be ok with the longer original headspace." Last edited by Capybara; April 29, 2014 at 05:58 PM.

April 29, 2014, 06:13 PM	#19
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Its "lawyerfearspeak" from the vendor, just ignore it. It relates more to product liability fear than mechanical workings, like 12Lb trigger pulls. You did the right thing getting the correct gauge & if the rifle passes you're golden. Ask the vendor these questions: How is a manufacturer in the 1940's overseas in the U.K. supposed to even know a foreign (to the maker) specification that doesn't match his government one actually exists at all? If he doesn't know it exists how can he retroactively comply with it? If it's "unsafe" how come none of the hundreds of thousands of soldiers firing millions of rounds over 5 years got hurt by the "out of (foreign) spec" headspace? I'd be fascinated by the factual reply addressing the points. Oh BTW the Prvi ammo is NOT made to SAAMI specs, but to the same specs the original headspace gauges are set for. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”