Taurus Judge pistol/rifle quetion

rlckwd7 · January 3, 2012, 04:24 PM

Ok well after reading the warning before I posted I hope this is the correct thread. Anyway, I have a Taurus Circuit Judge and was wondering if any of you could tell me if it would still be considered, by the ATF, a pistol or a short barrel rifle, if I cut the barrel down to less than 16 inches and replaced the shoulder stock with a pistol grip. Essentially it would look exactly like the Taurus Judge revolvers they sell. For those of you who may not be aware of what exactly the circuit judge is, it's almost exactly a regular Taurus Judge with a long rifle barrel and a shoulder stock that's basically fused onto the back of a pistol grip. And yes the regular pistol grips fit right on the circuit judge. So, no shoulder stock and under 16 in. barrel. Handgun? Rifle since it started out life as one? Just wondering if I would need a atf tax stamp.

I know it doesn't make sense for you guys for me to do this and you're going to say what a retard, but for me it does make sense I just haven't given you the details. Oh, and please to start babbling stuff saying how illegal it is if you don't actually have the law to prove it. Sorry to sound like an @ss but I can't ask a cop anymore a question without him being a [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]. Thanks.

Cheapshooter · January 3, 2012, 04:28 PM

Well, if you do it you won't have to worry about the employment situation for the next 10 years or so. Also I've heard the food ain't that bad in federal prison!
You would be making a handgun from a long gun, and that's a No, No.

.40cal · January 3, 2012, 04:32 PM

SECTION 23-31-330.Application and registration of person allowed to possess machine gun or sawed off shotgun or rifle.

(A) Every person permitted by Section 23-31-320 to possess a machine gun or sawed off shotgun or sawed off rifle, and any person elected or appointed to any office or position which entitles the person to possess a machine gun or sawed off shotgun or sawed off rifle, upon taking office, shall file with the State Law Enforcement Division on a blank to be supplied by the division on request an application which is properly sworn. The application must be approved by the sheriff of the county in which the applicant resides or has his principal place of business and include the applicant’s name, residence and business address, physical description, whether or not ever charged or convicted of any crime, municipal, state, or otherwise, and where, if charged, and when it was disposed of. The applicant shall also give a description including the serial number and make of the machine gun or sawed off shotgun or sawed off rifle which he possesses or desires to possess. The State Law Enforcement Division shall file the application in its office. The division shall register the applicant together with the information required in the application in a book or index to be kept for that purpose, assign to him a number, and issue to him a card which shall bear the signature of the applicant and which he shall keep with him while he has the machine gun or sawed off shotgun or sawed off rifle in his possession. This registration must be made on the date application is received and filed with the division. The registration expires on December thirty first of the year in which the license is issued.

SECTION 23-31-340. Penalties.

A person who violates the provisions of this article is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than ten thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

This is from the SC website. However, this is a Federal Law.

. . .and as far as asking a cop ( or other official that knows the law ) and being worried about him being a "d#ckhead", the only stupid question is the one that is not asked. I wouldn't care if he was being difficult, you need to know right or wrong.

Hope this helps!

rlckwd7 · January 3, 2012, 05:47 PM

Cheapshooter...there's no law restricting anyone from making a short barrel rifle, as long as you pay up. That's really not the question I asked. .40 cal- I've read that. I'm just wondering if it's a pistol or a short barreled rifle. I'm confused because if you take a pistol and put a stock on it, it becomes an SBR so obviously they make a distinction. As far as I know an SBR rifle is a rifle with a short barrel with the stock still attached. My gun would be grossly speaking a pistol. I just want to know its beginning life makes a difference. And as far as your cop comment, I really don't understand what you're getting at, why do I think I'm asking the law on this forum? Was this something I'm supposed to know from birth? You should be able to ask the cops questions and get a straight answer.

.40cal · January 3, 2012, 06:44 PM

I guess what I was trying to say is that he ( a cop ) should be able to answer your question without being a d#ckhead. Sometimes certain people, who have knowlede about a particular subject, tend to make others feel like there is some alterior motive for wanting to change a firearm.

I kind of got the same responses from others when I wanted to purchase a kit to convert my Glock 17 into a carbine, and then back to a pistol again. Apparently, the law will not allow you to do this. Once it is converted into a carbine, it can't be "shortened" again.

I don't think you will be able to do this without going through the proper channels, and in the end, you may just come out better purchasing another Judge. I may be wrong though. Hopefully someone else will chime in.

Good Luck!

Newton24b · January 3, 2012, 06:51 PM

the only thing you can do is to contact your local BATF office or the main BATF office in washington dc. those guys will be able to tell you that youll NEED to do the paper work and pay the fees or youll be in a federal hotel room for 10 years.

BGutzman · January 3, 2012, 09:29 PM

Or the Fed may simply hire you for the next incarnation of Fast & Felonious..... ATF & DOJ (except field agents) apparently are immune to federal laws...

Cheapshooter · January 3, 2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Cheapshooter...there's no law restricting anyone from making a short barrel rifle, as long as you pay up.

So I take it that the controversy over converting a T/C Contender back and forth between a rifle, and a handgun is because you would have to apply for, and pay the tax each time you do it. Much conversation on forums dealing more with T/C Contenders, and Encores about this. Most of the contention is that even though T/C says it's legal, the BATF says it's not. By not, I am assuming they mean not without the NFA tax stamp.

Bartholomew Roberts · January 4, 2012, 01:02 AM

The ATF has ruled that doing the opposite of what you propose, for example, taking a Judge and making it into a 16" rifle Circuit Judge and then back to a Judge is OK. See ATF Ruling 2011-4. In that same ruling they discuss what you propose and rule that it remains illegal, even though from a practical standpoint it has the same result. Welcome to the wonderful world of gun laws.

January 3, 2012, 04:24 PM	#1
rlckwd7 Junior Member Join Date: January 3, 2012 Posts: 2	Taurus Judge pistol/rifle quetion Ok well after reading the warning before I posted I hope this is the correct thread. Anyway, I have a Taurus Circuit Judge and was wondering if any of you could tell me if it would still be considered, by the ATF, a pistol or a short barrel rifle, if I cut the barrel down to less than 16 inches and replaced the shoulder stock with a pistol grip. Essentially it would look exactly like the Taurus Judge revolvers they sell. For those of you who may not be aware of what exactly the circuit judge is, it's almost exactly a regular Taurus Judge with a long rifle barrel and a shoulder stock that's basically fused onto the back of a pistol grip. And yes the regular pistol grips fit right on the circuit judge. So, no shoulder stock and under 16 in. barrel. Handgun? Rifle since it started out life as one? Just wondering if I would need a atf tax stamp. I know it doesn't make sense for you guys for me to do this and you're going to say what a retard, but for me it does make sense I just haven't given you the details. Oh, and please to start babbling stuff saying how illegal it is if you don't actually have the law to prove it. Sorry to sound like an @ss but I can't ask a cop anymore a question without him being a [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]. Thanks.

January 3, 2012, 04:28 PM	#2
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	Well, if you do it you won't have to worry about the employment situation for the next 10 years or so. Also I've heard the food ain't that bad in federal prison! You would be making a handgun from a long gun, and that's a No, No. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

January 3, 2012, 04:32 PM	#3
.40cal Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2006 Location: Somewhere in SC Posts: 216	SECTION 23-31-330.Application and registration of person allowed to possess machine gun or sawed off shotgun or rifle. (A) Every person permitted by Section 23-31-320 to possess a machine gun or sawed off shotgun or sawed off rifle, and any person elected or appointed to any office or position which entitles the person to possess a machine gun or sawed off shotgun or sawed off rifle, upon taking office, shall file with the State Law Enforcement Division on a blank to be supplied by the division on request an application which is properly sworn. The application must be approved by the sheriff of the county in which the applicant resides or has his principal place of business and include the applicant’s name, residence and business address, physical description, whether or not ever charged or convicted of any crime, municipal, state, or otherwise, and where, if charged, and when it was disposed of. The applicant shall also give a description including the serial number and make of the machine gun or sawed off shotgun or sawed off rifle which he possesses or desires to possess. The State Law Enforcement Division shall file the application in its office. The division shall register the applicant together with the information required in the application in a book or index to be kept for that purpose, assign to him a number, and issue to him a card which shall bear the signature of the applicant and which he shall keep with him while he has the machine gun or sawed off shotgun or sawed off rifle in his possession. This registration must be made on the date application is received and filed with the division. The registration expires on December thirty first of the year in which the license is issued. SECTION 23-31-340. Penalties. A person who violates the provisions of this article is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than ten thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both. This is from the SC website. However, this is a Federal Law. . . .and as far as asking a cop ( or other official that knows the law ) and being worried about him being a "d#ckhead", the only stupid question is the one that is not asked. I wouldn't care if he was being difficult, you need to know right or wrong. Hope this helps! __________________ *"The philosophy of gun control: Teenagers are roaring through town at 90MPH, where the speed limit is 25. Your solution is to lower the speed limit to 20.”* Last edited by .40cal; January 3, 2012 at 04:44 PM.

January 3, 2012, 06:44 PM	#5
.40cal Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2006 Location: Somewhere in SC Posts: 216	I guess what I was trying to say is that he ( a cop ) should be able to answer your question without being a d#ckhead. Sometimes certain people, who have knowlede about a particular subject, tend to make others feel like there is some alterior motive for wanting to change a firearm. I kind of got the same responses from others when I wanted to purchase a kit to convert my Glock 17 into a carbine, and then back to a pistol again. Apparently, the law will not allow you to do this. Once it is converted into a carbine, it can't be "shortened" again. I don't think you will be able to do this without going through the proper channels, and in the end, you may just come out better purchasing another Judge. I may be wrong though. Hopefully someone else will chime in. Good Luck! __________________ *"The philosophy of gun control: Teenagers are roaring through town at 90MPH, where the speed limit is 25. Your solution is to lower the speed limit to 20.”*

January 3, 2012, 09:29 PM	#7
BGutzman Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2009 Location: Frozen Tundra Posts: 2,414	Or the Fed may simply hire you for the next incarnation of Fast & Felonious..... ATF & DOJ (except field agents) apparently are immune to federal laws... __________________ Molon Labe

January 3, 2012, 05:47 PM	#4
rlckwd7 Junior Member Join Date: January 3, 2012 Posts: 2	Cheapshooter...there's no law restricting anyone from making a short barrel rifle, as long as you pay up. That's really not the question I asked. .40 cal- I've read that. I'm just wondering if it's a pistol or a short barreled rifle. I'm confused because if you take a pistol and put a stock on it, it becomes an SBR so obviously they make a distinction. As far as I know an SBR rifle is a rifle with a short barrel with the stock still attached. My gun would be grossly speaking a pistol. I just want to know its beginning life makes a difference. And as far as your cop comment, I really don't understand what you're getting at, why do I think I'm asking the law on this forum? Was this something I'm supposed to know from birth? You should be able to ask the cops questions and get a straight answer.

January 3, 2012, 06:51 PM	#6
Newton24b Junior member Join Date: February 10, 2009 Posts: 974	the only thing you can do is to contact your local BATF office or the main BATF office in washington dc. those guys will be able to tell you that youll NEED to do the paper work and pay the fees or youll be in a federal hotel room for 10 years.

January 4, 2012, 01:02 AM	#9
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	The ATF has ruled that doing the opposite of what you propose, for example, taking a Judge and making it into a 16" rifle Circuit Judge and then back to a Judge is OK. See ATF Ruling 2011-4. In that same ruling they discuss what you propose and rule that it remains illegal, even though from a practical standpoint it has the same result. Welcome to the wonderful world of gun laws.