Perp shot multiple times 40S&W and 223 still fighting when cuffed - Page 5

dosjoel · June 28, 2009, 03:52 PM

Of all I saw and read,
(reminds one of the Miami FBI shoot)
The one thing that stands out most
Is what 172 rifleman said,
a .00 buck pump shotgun
Would be a game changer
In this particular fight.

Here is a second dish
Of food for thought
What if the cops were armed
all with .45s?

Double Naught Spy · June 29, 2009, 07:11 AM

Okay, since nobody did it, I went to the the Defensive Carry web site to see what they had on the presentation. I found the original posting.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...s-warning.html
The guy got it off a local gun board. Great. So much for a solid source. This does nothing to add credibility to the report.

So I read through the thread. I had actually posted in it at one point. Many of the posts noted the hokiness of the logos as noted in this thread and also that the "Defensive Systems Unit" doesn't appear to be real. Okay, not looking good at all for the story, eh?

Towards the end of the thread was posted a link to a news account. So I followed it. It was one of those where you get the first 10 lines and then they want you to sign up for their service. However, I took the information from that and did more searches.
The shooting was in Hazleton,PA
The dead guy is George Thomas Deeb, III
The coroner is Dr. Jack Consalvo (at least the one mentioned in the article for which you have to pay and for which isn't attributed to an actual source.

So I kept looking. I still can't prove that the presentation in the OP of this thread is real. HOWEVER, I did find this.
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal...ual_report_pdf
It is the 2006 Penn State Police 2006 Annual Report

Page 110 has the following information...

Quote:

Police Shooting/Justifiable Homicide: As a result of a drive-by shooting occurring on Stockton Road, Luzerne County, one of the rounds struck a 9-year-old in the knee. The investigation revealed that George Deeb III, 18-year-old, was responsible, mistaking the victim for a member of a group of older males he expected to meet and fight. The driver of the vehicle was a 17-year-old male who was placed into juvenile detention after providing investigators false information regarding his participation and knowledge of the incident. A warrant was obtained for Deeb, but he was killed by Hazleton City Police on November 29, 2006, in a justified shooting incident. The Troop N Major Case Team investigated the shooting of George Thomas Deeb III. The investigation revealed that Deeb made a phone call to the Hazleton Police Department, but did not identify himself and directed officers to his location.

Upon their arrival, he opened fire on them. The first two responding officers were struck by gunfire and returned fire. A third officer arrived to assist. Deeb was eventually shot and killed. One city police officer sustained a serious arm injury and was taken to Lehigh Valley Hospital, and the second officer received a grazing wound to the head and was treated and released from Hazleton Hospital. Deeb fired a total 25 rounds, reloading his .40 semiautomatic pistol at least twice.

Police fired at least 74 rounds from their .40 caliber service pistols and 34
rounds from an issued .223 assault rifle. Deeb was struck at least 17 times. The shooting has been ruled as justified by Luzerne County District Attorney David Lupas.

This does NOT prove that the presentation about which we have been arguing is real. It may still be falsified in some way or not actually ever given. The logos are cheesy and just what the hell is the Defensive Systems Unit if it is real? HOWEVER, the alleged incident IS very much real. The data in the presentation generally match the information from the annual state police report. I think some of the details are slightly off, but I have done enough checking for one morning and I am not going back and counting bullet holes again for those who can't count or going back to verify that both say the absolute same number of rounds were fired. I will leave that up for y'all.

So is that dead Deeb on the table? I don't know. However, Deeb did fight the hell out of the cops, taking numerous (17) wounds before eventually succumbing and injuring two cops along the way. So y'all can still argue all you want about whether the presentation is valid, but I think this completely squashes the notion that the presentation must be a fake because of the lack of survivorship or ability to fight through being gunshot that many times. Deeb did, plain and simple. The shooting happened.

Double Naught Spy · June 29, 2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

What if the cops were armed
all with .45s?

Well then the supposed ME report might have shown 1.12" of penetration instead of just 1". Come on. Do you really think it would have mattered? The .40 and .45 are not very different at all.

drrpg01 · June 29, 2009, 11:45 PM

I don't believe for one second that a .40 caliber round would only penetrate one inch of human tissue, unless it shattered bone and got lodged there. Any other tissue, several inches of penetration minimum, in my opinion.

Double Naught Spy · June 30, 2009, 12:08 AM

Well of course it didn't. Did you read the thread? That was the supposed purpose of the presentation mentioned in the OP was to correct the alleged reporting error that the ME reportedly made as stated in a BLOG. The .40 caliber rounds obviously went deeper. That isn't in question.

However, dosjoel wondered if things might have been different had the cops had .45s. My point was that the report would show minimal benefit over .40 caliber (if at all, really). So the erred report would not have shown 1" of penetration as with the .40, but 1.12" of penetration with the .45. The report would still be in error, LOL.

SamStafford · June 30, 2009, 12:19 PM

Sounds like Jason.

SIGSHR · June 30, 2009, 01:27 PM

I'd like to see the toxicology reports, I understand PCP aka "Angel Dust" can make someone hard to subdue. Charles Askins tells the story of one smuggler who continued to shoot after being hit squarely in the sternum with a .351 Winchester Auto rifle round. Askins noted his tenacity and willpower.

fast-eddie · June 30, 2009, 05:05 PM

After seeing this thread I'm going to have to conceal my .50 BMG rifle.

What are the point of these threads?

Double Naught Spy · June 30, 2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

I'd like to see the toxicology reports, I understand PCP aka "Angel Dust" can make someone hard to subdue. Charles Askins tells the story of one smuggler who continued to shoot after being hit squarely in the sternum with a .351 Winchester Auto rifle round. Askins noted his tenacity and willpower.

According to the information in the OP report and mentioned repeatedly throughout the thread, he had a minimal amount of marijuana in his system, so your PCP theory isn't relevant. Platt and Matix didn't have any drugs in their system either and sustained a fairly amazing amount of ballistic damage before succumbing. Drugs are an easy answer to people over performing what is expected, but are not the only answer by any stretch.

June 28, 2009, 03:52 PM	#101
dosjoel Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 142	Another +1 for 172 Of all I saw and read, (reminds one of the Miami FBI shoot) The one thing that stands out most Is what 172 rifleman said, a .00 buck pump shotgun Would be a game changer In this particular fight. Here is a second dish Of food for thought What if the cops were armed all with .45s? __________________ DosJoel "God and the Soldier we adore, in time of trouble but not before. When the danger's past and the wrong been righted, God is forgotten and the Soldier slighted." - Anonymous Soldier.

June 30, 2009, 12:08 AM	#105
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Well of course it didn't. Did you read the thread? That was the supposed purpose of the presentation mentioned in the OP was to correct the alleged reporting error that the ME reportedly made as stated in a BLOG. The .40 caliber rounds obviously went deeper. That isn't in question. However, dosjoel wondered if things might have been different had the cops had .45s. My point was that the report would show minimal benefit over .40 caliber (if at all, really). So the erred report would not have shown 1" of penetration as with the .40, but 1.12" of penetration with the .45. The report would still be in error, LOL. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

June 30, 2009, 05:05 PM	#108
fast-eddie Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2009 Location: Tigard Or, Posts: 342	After seeing this thread After seeing this thread I'm going to have to conceal my .50 BMG rifle. What are the point of these threads?

June 29, 2009, 11:45 PM	#104
drrpg01 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2009 Posts: 360	I don't believe for one second that a .40 caliber round would only penetrate one inch of human tissue, unless it shattered bone and got lodged there. Any other tissue, several inches of penetration minimum, in my opinion.

June 30, 2009, 12:19 PM	#106
SamStafford Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Portageville, MO. 63873 Posts: 162	Sounds like Jason.

June 30, 2009, 01:27 PM	#107
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	I'd like to see the toxicology reports, I understand PCP aka "Angel Dust" can make someone hard to subdue. Charles Askins tells the story of one smuggler who continued to shoot after being hit squarely in the sternum with a .351 Winchester Auto rifle round. Askins noted his tenacity and willpower.