Front Sight Press AND Quick Kill??

[Capt. Charlie]

The use of a laser equipped firearm is a tactic and they are well suited for training.
....especially in the varied disciplines of point shooting; front sight press and QK.

Uncle!!!!

Pax

Did that explanation make sense?

Yes it did! Thanks!

[JN01]

Az Qkr has a valid point about not allowing the laser sight to become a crutch. It would be foolish to depend entirely on it (which, no matter how reliable, is still the most susceptible to failure, i.e dead battery) and neglect the other techniques. It seems the best of all would be to regularly practice PS without the laser, with the laser, and at longer ranges, sighted fire.

I envision more likely scenario for the advantageous use of a laser than the one Skyguy gave:

You're sitting in your car, someone rushes up to you with a weapon. You may not have time to drive off before he shoots or (if your window is down) stabs you. If you draw and extend the gun out to PS, he might grab or deflect it (window down) or (window up) the gun hits the glass and the shot goes wild. With the laser, you could keep the gun down out of reach and still make the shot.

[Sweatnbullets]

The ultimate goal of PSing is to refine your eye/hand cordination, so that you can get hits from any position and any angle. In the scenario above the hit can be made without a laser.

[Az Qkr]

Well, gentlemen and ladies,

I just got back [ its' 4 am here ] from a very long day.

Skyguy: You have my utmost respect for your service and experiences in life. I also share some of those same experiences, but in different areas of SE asia.

Mine were in the An Hoa valley near the airfield there. Just southeast of no mans land, near hill 55 and FSB Ross in the Quang Nam province of SNV.

I stand corrected, you do not need to speak in furtherance for me sir.

We disagree on this issue, we can and have kept this civil and I will not continue further in this vane as we will never agree, yet on my end at least, will honor your opinions on the issue. For no matter what would be said, I know you have a background worthy of at least listening to.

Stay safe

Brownie

[Skyguy]

We disagree on this issue, we can and have kept this civil and I will not continue further in this vane as we will never agree, yet on my end at least, will honor your opinions on the issue. For no matter what would be said, I know you have a background worthy of at least listening to.

Hey, back at ya.
I, too, respect your knowledge and experiences and your valued effort to train folks in the defensive use of a pistol.

For the record, I never intended to put down anyone or any shooting technique. I even tried to emphasize that I use and train at point shooting, laser indexed shooting and sighted shooting.

I believe all three are valuable responses in certain scenarios.
But, I also believe that sudden point shooting at close range is the most useful shooting technique for self defense.
....and that a laser equipped pistol is, indeed, a decisive tactical advantage.

That said, seems we have more in common than not.

[Skyguy]

WARNING - WARNING - WARNING

Do not read this if....you're stuck in the past....you don't have an open mind....or you know it all.


FBI statistics show that close to 70% of police shootings occur at night or in reduced light environments.

Tips on surviving low light critical incidents

- Train, practice in low light conditions, learn to use darkness as an ally.
- Take advantage of new technology and equipment.
- Develop good skills: white light; movement; use of cover, etc.
- Have redundant lighting systems (small backup light, etc.)
- Develop your two handed and one handed coordination skills.
- Combine laser indexing with white light illumination..
- Learn about low light adversity: night eyes, blurry vision, afterglow, off center vision, etc.
- Understand: back lighting, ambient light, shadows, movement, team tactics, communication.

Low Light Operations...laser...officer survival:

- Laser aiming increases an officers field of vision and allows the officer to scan the area for accomplices, weapons and movement while verifiably remaining on target.
- A single aiming index, illuminated, is easier to sustain than alignment of eye, sights and target.
- Non-verbal communication tool between officers. Visible and clear.
- Subject control enhancement.
- Improves officer accuracy while moving.
- Enhances use of cover.
- Allows officer to shoot from unorthodox or injured positions.

Aiming Techniques

Sighted

This requires aligning sights with eye and target in a perfectly straight line. It is difficult especially when moving.
This "threading the needle" sighting method is awkward, difficult to consistently reproduce and necessitates use of fine motor skills.
Sighting produces satisfactory results while training in static environments with paper targets. However, its effectiveness is lost in high stress environments as is evidenced by the police incident hit ratio of approximately one out of every six shots fired hitting the intended target.
Other factors to consider include:

- A high degree of maintenance is required to sustain proficiency with this technique
- Darkness can obscure sight bumps
- Officer may be unable to bring the pistol to traditional sight plane
- Sighting can be adversely affected by eye and vision associated problems
- Method requires a focal plane contrary to the usual threat response, which is to focus on the subject.

Strong points: Sighting system is small, discrete, inexpensive and quite durable. This sighting method is considered usual and customary and is both comfortable and difficult to teach.

Non-Indexed Aiming Techniques

Point-Shooting

This method is strongly advocated by noted authorities such as Colonel Rex Applegate.

- Point-shooting is very quick and adequately accurate with practice. Mostly instinctual, some point shooting methods might be classified as semi-sighted because of gross visual references and geometric alignment of body coordinates.
- Point-shooting requires maintenance to sustain proficiency and may deteriorate with disruption of baseline standards such as footing, angles, height disparities, etc.
- Accuracy in point-shooting is affected significantly as distance increases.
- There is no de-escalation value.


Laser Sight Aiming

Advantages of the laser index include:

- Lack of complicated sight picture found in traditional alignment
- Does not require fine motor skills
- Does not rely on the gross approximation of point shooting.

Laser sights open the vision plane for scanning and assessment of a threat while maintaining subject control. They allow the officer to accurately shoot from angles and positions other than the traditional sight plane.
Laser indexing is very natural and can be used in conjunction with visual sighting and other shooting methods.
Laser indexing is the only sighting method that increases subject control, de-escalates a hostile situation, and enhances officer safety.

LASER TACTICAL ADVANTAGES

Limiting our sighting methods to "head and eyes must be behind the gun", assumes that an officer will never have to shoot from compromised positions or that incoming fire and available cover will not compromise an officers efficiency.

Lasergrips provide options. Traditional sighting is still available when time, distance, cover and lighting is favorable. Most situations do not allow these luxuries. The option of Lasergrips give officers a life saving tool in critical moments.

Tactics

Threat de-escalation.
Lasergrips provide a final less than lethal option in hot situations when an officer is faced with what appears to be his last alternative...firing rounds. Lasergrips are conclusively proving to de-escalate many hostile situations saving departments grief, time, and money.

Rapid first shot.
Because Lasergrips provide a single index sighting reference it is very quick. Traditional sighting is severely diminished by stress. The laser dot yields the longest sight picture available...it puts the front sight on the target.

Life saving auxiliary sighting method.
A downed or seriously compromised officer may not have the physical ability to point shoot or come to traditional sight picture. Lasergrips provide a life saving option.
Reduces exposure when behind cover or tactical bunker. Iron sights only, require that you lead with your head.

Quick and accurate sighting method when moving or in close quarter (non sighted) position.

Visual communication tool. Allows officers to designate who is covering who...or where the suspect is in a crowded environment.
Lasers can designate the location of a hostile threat and help an officer maintain awareness of muzzle direction and safety.

[Harley Quinn]

Did you copy this from a site that is selling these?
Good information. Thanks.

HQ

[leadbutt]

Well. I must say this whole thread has been refreshing,

Lazer sites, great for training NEW shooters in SIGHT USE, but lousy for "PS", found they tend to look at the dot more then feeling the weapon and the body's index.
Love'm for long guns, and helped the local state prison set up their mini-14 's.

Really on down side I find to them is for left handed operators.

"IT'S JUST ANOTHER TOOL"

[Az Qkr]

"Point-Shooting

This method is strongly advocated by noted authorities such as Colonel Rex Applegate.

- Point-shooting is very quick and adequately accurate with practice. Mostly instinctual, some point shooting methods might be classified as semi-sighted because of gross visual references and geometric alignment of body coordinates.
- Point-shooting requires maintenance to sustain proficiency and may deteriorate with disruption of baseline standards such as footing, angles, height disparities, etc.
- Accuracy in point-shooting is affected significantly as distance increases."

Obviously written by someone who DOESN'T know anything about pointshooting who is only stating opinion as fact with an agenda in mind.

The only part of the above quote thats accurate is ""Accuracy in point-shooting is affected significantly as distance increases." which also is true for sighted shooting.

[OBIWAN]

"some point shooting methods might be classified as semi-sighted because of gross visual references and geometric alignment of body coordinates."

What part of that is not accurate?

Or.....in simplest terms....it ain't wrong just cause you say so.

[Skyguy]

Leadbutt:

Lazer sites, great for training NEW shooters in SIGHT USE, but lousy for "PS", found they tend to look at the dot more then feeling the weapon and the body's index.

Nothing personal, but.....you're joking, right?

You're saying that in a stressed out situation, you would 'feel' your weapon, use your tiny 'sights' and your 'body's index' in a lowlight/darkness shootout......where 70% of all police shootouts take place.

And you see no benefit in being able to single-index aim a dot on a threat from an unorthodox angle or compromised/cover position......which allows an officer to scan the area for accomplices, weapons and movement while verifiably remaining on target.

Or are you talking about shooting paper targets at the range?

....and btw, 'looking at the dot' is the whole point of using a laser sight.

As for point shooting in low light or darkness, it's kinda silly past a close encounter. Accuracy in point-shooting is significantly affected as darkness and distance increases.

Az Qkr:

Obviously written by someone who DOESN'T know anything about pointshooting who is only stating opinion as fact with an agenda in mind.

Brownie, please respond with facts and constructive information.
I know enough about point shooting to stand behind those comments and say that they are 'spot on'.
.

[nscale]

My friend is a cop or (Leo), excuss my ignorance, but I am not even sure what Leo means? He carries a Glock with a laser.

He is the guy that taught me how to shoot well enough that I feel comfortable carrying my weapon. Thank fully I have not had to use it, but if I did, I have learned enough to keep from shooting an innocent bystander ( I would hope).
I am also confident I could hit my target, because he has taught me not to depend on the sites of the pistol. I guess it is a point and shoot technique. I have spent many hours practicing and will continue to do so because the technique requires practice and is fun as well. I will say that it can be likened to riding a bike. Once I got the idea, it became a natural method.

As I read this post (this vs. that) it reminded me of a story he told me. He was breaking up a fight and found himself on the ground. As he was scrambling he found he was being approached by a guy with gun drawn and poined at him. Still on his back, he pulled his weapon and pointed it at the bad guy. He admitted that if it had not been for the laser he would have probably shot himself in the knee, had he pulled the trigger. Obviously he dropped his leg and the dot landed on the bad guy. Fortunatly the friend of the bad guy who originally knocked him on the ground stepped between my friend and his, to prevent the shooting. Maybe he saw the dot.

No one got hurt, but there is no doubt in my mind that my friend could have hit the guy without even looking at his weapon. This is the skill he has been kind enough to pass on to me. There are 2 morals to the story.
1. The laser is a good tool to determine if you have a clear path, and
2. Don't fall down.

[Az Qkr]

"some point shooting methods might be classified as semi-sighted because of gross visual references and geometric alignment of body coordinates."

What part of that is not accurate?"

It suggests more than one [ by using the word some ] pointshooting methods can be classified as semi-sighted. Thats wrong. I know of three, maybe a fourth, workable pointshooting methods, QK is not semi-sighted, that would leave the other two, maybe three to get to the "some" in that statement.

FAS is not semi sighted pointshooting, thats another one. DR Middlebrooks has a method that is "pointshooting", not called semi sighted pointshooting, that leaves ONE, maybe two.

Quick fire is not semi sighted, I have trained in that system and know it as well as QK. That leaves how many possible known pointshooting methods? Ya, like I said, the statements is wrong, and the person who wrote it has about as much knowledge of pointshooting as I do climbing Mt. Everest. Basically non existant. All that article does is perpetuate misconceptions and make mistatements that others with even less knowledge end up believing is true.

Sorry, not on my watch!!!!!!!! "Or.....in simplest terms....it ain't right just cause some undisclosed writer says so.

No one until Enos wrote of such about 16 years ago had a problem with what descriptors were used to describe sighted [ including semi sighted ], pointshooting [ not using the sights ].

You ARE either using the sights in some way, or you are NOT. Semi sighted suggests somehow visually referencing the sights and is not pointshooting. I find that a gross error, and historically I am correct.

"Or.....in simplest terms....it ain't right just cause some undisclosed writer says so.

Skyguy:

See above on the first, and where this:

"Point-shooting requires maintenance to sustain proficiency and may deteriorate with disruption of baseline standards such as footing, angles, height disparities, etc."

is concerned, if you are suggesting that one reqires maintenance to sustain proficiency in pointshooting and that it may deteriorate with disruption of baseline standards of footing, angles and height, perhaps you should rethink your position of "I know enough about point shooting to stand behind those comments", as the above is wrong, and ANY properly trained pointshooter knows quite well.

Have you been formally trained in FAS or QK? What method of pointshooting have you been trained in? Any? There are only a few methodologies that have history of success and therefor are considered reliable or worthy of having in the bag of tricks [ because they are reliable and repeatable ]. Which one were you trained in?

As I know you have mil service, if your background in pointshooting is from that source, it expalins a lot relative your understanding, or misunderstanding for that matter. If not from that source, what known pointshooter trained you in one of the established [ as in historical ] pointshooting methods?

Having been trained in FAS by a direct student of Applegate who is considered one of, if not the knowledge base of the pure method used back then, and having been trained myself by the originator and master of Quick Kill, having used QK for 25 years now, I think I may know just a little more about pointshooting than the average BooBoo out there.

You've mentioned your pointshooting in the past, I think it's time to disclose your formal training and what method that training ocurred in. See, I don't put much stock in people who tell me they pointshoot, or are pointshooters to some varying degree until I can determine just where they learned to pointshoot, by whom, and in what system.

That way, it is easier to also determine just who has some real knowledge of a known and accepted form of pointshooting [ historical in nature ] and who may be lacking in actual knowledge but assumes they pointshoot cause they don't look at their sights or read Enos' work, with it's inherent varying results which further this type of discussion.

Hope that is enough "facts and constructive information" for you.

Robin Brown

[nscale]

Az Qkr,
I gather from this post you instruct on Quick Kill (QK). This is new to me. Is there anyone in the Houston area that trains in this or similar shooting techniques?

Can you or anyone recommend any books that explain the different types of point shooting techniques or styles?
Sorry this info may be in another post, I have'nt searched.

[matthew temkin]

Start with these..

1) KILL OR GET KILLED by Rex Applegate.
Available via paladin Press or from other internet booksellers. www.paladinpress.com

2) SHOOTING TO LIVE by Fairbairn and Sykes

3) Quick or DEAD by William Cassidy.

4) SHOOTING FOR KEEPS (Video)

The following are avaiable from Mike Rayburn at
http://www.pointshooting.org

POINTSHOOTING (video)

ADVANCED PATROL TACTICS (Book)
Excellent book with four great chapters on point shooting.

[Az Qkr]

"I gather from this post you instruct on Quick Kill (QK). This is new to me. Is there anyone in the Houston area that trains in this or similar shooting techniques?"

Yes, thats correct, I train others in QK and hold the registered copyright to the QK with a pistol or revolver technique.

To my knowledge very few have the pure form of QK from Bobby Lamar " Lucky" McDaniel who developed and taught the technique privately with the pistols.

Certainly none trained at his hands are currently training others in QK as I am.

I am engaged in setting up training classes this year and going forward in the future in QK. If you are still interested, email me at [email protected] and we can discuss this off the boards here.

Robin Brown

[leadbutt]

Nope not joking ,,just my opinon, and yes you do need to feel your lock point and weapon in the dark,, BTDT

We have used it for training,those whom where classed as untrainable, and did use it to sights, almost as a ball and dummy course

[Skyguy]

Az Qkr

You've mentioned your pointshooting in the past, I think it's time to disclose your formal training and what method that training ocurred in.

My 'formal' point shooting training is Army AB; close quarters/hand to hand, bayonet, handgun, etc. It's been 40 years now and I don't have any memory of what was the name of the 'method'.

All I know is that it was instinctive, super simple to learn and become proficient at.

The drill is to focus on the target with 'both' eyes, crouch, raise the pistol to line of sight, cover the target with the back of the slide/barrel axis...and shoot. I'm really good at hitting a 12" circle up to about 30'.

But the greater the distance and/or the darker it gets, the harder it is to stay on target.
Throw in awkward or compromised positions, bad terrain, cover, difficult angles....not to mention the advantage of scanning, target designation and de-escaltion....and I want a laser sight.
.

[Az Qkr]

The drill is to focus on the target with 'both' eyes, crouch, raise the pistol to line of sight, cover the target with the back of the slide/barrel axis...and shoot. I'm really good at hitting a 12" circle up to about 30'.

No doubt using that method is good for you after that much time on it, even as it appears to not be one of the more reliable and recognized methods of pointshooting much past 5 yrds. [ I'll explain why later here ].

"But the greater the distance and/or the darker it gets, the harder it is to stay on target."

That may be very true with what you describe.

"Throw in awkward or compromised positions, bad terrain, cover, difficult angles....not to mention the advantage of scanning, target designation and de-escaltion....and I want a laser sight."

That seems like a logical statement to a degree after we understand you were instructed in a technique that requires a croutch [ certain stance ].

As Qk doesn't rely on any croutching or otherwise and can be performed and has been performed upside down and backwards, on ones sides, either side one or two handed [ stance ], can be performed one or two handed as necessary [ angles ], is not in ones line of sight to affect vision [ scanning ], is as easy to identify threats as though one did not even have a gun [ target designation ], and will not be used to threaten but kill when the time is necessary [ de-escalation ], I have to conclude that when you stated:

"I know enough about point shooting to stand behind those comments and say that they are 'spot on'."

That you were talking strictly the method you use, which has no recognition of methodology within the realm of reliable, effective pointshooting. Perhaps you should have stated that you know enough about the method you use and not made the statement using the generic term "pointshooting"

When you stated you knew enough about pointshooting to call the unknown author spot on, I have to believe he has about as much knowoledge of pointshooting methodologies as you do, which is very narrow in scope in reality.

Your assessment is based on what you were shown and do, not on other methodologies that are recognized. Lets keep that straight for the readers so they are not confused when you make such statements about your knowledge of pointshooting.

The presumption you were taught someones idea of pointshooting with a handgun in the army was correct. They have never been able to get the pistol skills right [ with the exception of quick fire ], and it should be noted they never officially adopted any pistol/revolver pointshooting system with the exception of quick fire, whether they trained people like you and called it pointshooting or some other name you can't remember.

Quick Fire is close to the description you provide, and it's strengths are not the equal to QK both in repeatable accuracy nor in the distance it can be employed successfully. QF is reliable but at the shorter ranges, not to be extended past 5 yrds. QK is easily taken to 30 feet with shots staying inside 6-8 inches with ain a short period of time.

Once the QK is learned, it is owned. It is not a skill that degrades over time without practice. The skill does not degrade, ones trigger control, handhold, and other problems arise from lack of practice.

Robin Brown

[Skyguy]

Az Qkr

That seems like a logical statement to a degree after we understand you were instructed in a technique that requires a crouch [ certain stance ].

Although I did it, I didn't fully understand the reason for close encounter (point shoot) training from a crouch position.....until I started to get shot at....and then I spent nearly every waking moment in a crouch.
Seems like I went months at a time in a crouch. I'd take cover in a crouch, I'd run in a crouch. I'd eat and **** in a crouch. I'd even sleep in a crouch. lol

Thank God, my Army AB instructors had real life combat experience.

They followed a manual, but they also knew what the hell they were talking about. They'd say 'this' or 'that' is going to happen and you guys will respond 'this way or that way'.
They drilled us as though we were their own kids...always saying "you guys will thank me later".

Now I understand that if you don't shoot from a crouch, you're simply inexperienced and clueless.

Anyway, I don't see much value in dissecting and examining the slight differences between all the commercial 'methods', lineage and Brand Names of point shooting. Doesn't matter.

It matters to you because you have an ingrained emotional investment in your particular Brand of point shooting. That's probably why you bad mouth the various other commercial point shooting Brands and laser sights.

But, the bottom line is that I point shoot every bit as well with my military training as all these range commandos out there that tout and brag about their special Brand. I hit the target...from a crouch! lol

Add in dusk, darkness, cover and awkward angles and positions….and my laser equipped 1911 'crutch' blows them away, every time.

[Az Qkr]

"Anyway, I don't see much value in dissecting and examining the slight differences between all the commercial 'methods', lineage and Brand Names of point shooting. Doesn't matter."

Of course that statement just reinforces the fact that you do not have a working knowledge of Quick Fire, Quick Kill or FAS, and therefor can't speak intelligently about the differences [ not so slight ] between them.

"It matters to you because you have an ingrained emotional investment in your particular Brand of point shooting. That's probably why you bad mouth the various other commercial point shooting Brands and laser sights."

You sure do like to make assumptions and then state them as facts, thats for sure.

"Now I understand that if you don't shoot from a crouch, you're simply inexperienced and clueless."

Thats laughable at best, and shows others you really do have a limited knowledge base, that being on the ONE method you were trained in.

From QF, QK, FAS, I have many more options at my disposal when I need them. Trained in all of them extensively [ FAS less so ], as well as sighted fire.

"That's probably why you bad mouth the various other commercial point shooting Brands and laser sights."

I haven't badmouthed any other various commercial pointshooting methods. In fact just the opposite. See above. I find value in at least three of the known reliable systems, and can and will use them when they are appropriate.

There are only one, maybe two more that are worthy of consideration. I don't know them so I do not speak with any authority about them. I do speak with authority through a working knowledge of the methods I have trained in and used. Quite the opposite of your posts.

"But, the bottom line is that I point shoot every bit as well with my military training as all these range commandos out there that tout and brag about their special Brand. I hit the target...from a crouch! lol"

Again, you make statements of fact through your limited knowledge. You can not intelligently make the claim you shoot every bit as well as another in anything until you have seen the others shoot.

Look, you were the one who made the case for the laser, in particular these specifically:

"Throw in awkward or compromised positions, bad terrain, cover, difficult angles....not to mention the advantage of scanning, target designation and de-escaltion....and I want a laser sight."

I answered your request for "Brownie, please respond with facts and constructive information." by stating:

"As Qk doesn't rely on any croutching or otherwise and can be performed and has been performed upside down and backwards, on ones sides, either side one or two handed [ stance ], can be performed one or two handed as necessary [ angles ], is not in ones line of sight to affect vision [ scanning ], is as easy to identify threats as though one did not even have a gun [ target designation ], and will not be used to threaten but kill when the time is necessary"

Those are the facts. You made your case for the laser's adavantage based on the above [ croutch/stance, angles, scanning, and target designation ], I responded with what is easily obtainable with QK, therby taking some of those perceived advantages you have over anything else and demonstrating all the specifics are negotiated as well without the laser.

"Add in dusk, darkness, cover and awkward angles and positions….and my laser equipped 1911 'crutch' blows them away, every time."

I'll reiterate what I have written regarding my take on lasers. They are in previous posts. They are limited in scope [ dependant on ones others abilities, great training aids, usefull in lowlight, and good at verifying ones aim to develop certain skills.

Making a case for descalation as you have as another strong point for the use of the laser in a SD situation where a handgun needs to be used, I have to wonder how many times when a gun is NEEDED to defend, the laser will be ised to de-escalate to not having to shoot.

My gun is not coming out unless it is with intent to pull the trigger on someone because thats what is necessary to stay above ground. I do not care to attempt to de-escalate anything when the gun needs to be used as a civilian as some intimidation mentality. That process can likely get one killed IMO.

There's a time for shooting and you get to shooting. I work from a defensive posture as a civilian, not an offensive position similiar to swat or in some instances line officers.

Having been trained in swat and swat commander while carrying a shield, I do know the difference between the two.

You don't seriously think I'm a range commando do you?

Robin Brown

[Skyguy]

I found a picture that, although dynamic, is very close to my training to shoot from a crouch.
See the guy on the left.

One foot forward, legs bent at the knees, week hand out for balance, smaller target and always ready to move out of the 'zone'.
(two handed works, too)

Stand up shooters make a nice target.

[Harley Quinn]

I believe when show's like "Cops" are all about drawn weapons and it is on TV and everyone think's, that happens all the time. (it does not)

I believe when a weapon is drawn by a civilian who is trying to impress or trying to stop something from going down, without the ability to justify the shooting is only going to esculate it.

If you put the red dot on someone and it is not proper, and you are not LEO.
Well you better get to a phone quick because you are going to need a good attorney (me thinks)?

Most who post are not LEO and if they are it should be recognized as a different situation. If you are shooting targets and like a laser, good.

I believe one of you needs to allow the other the last word or you will be here a long time LOL...

HQ

[Az Qkr]

skyguy can have the last word, no need to keep this running any longer, there has been plenty of good information already discussed and your observations are correct.

Robin Brown

[nscale]

Pops always said...

Dont pull it ifin you aint gonna shoot
Dont shootit ifin you anint gonna kill em

Course he also told me God takes care of idiots and Babys, and you aint no baby boy.