38 spl case length?

[bjm42]

Speer manual states "trim to" length of 1.145. My batch of 100 new Starline cases measure 1.142 to 1.150. I intend to trim all to same exact length. The nice folks @ Starline say I'm okay to trim the lot of cases to 1.142, as they use the SAAMI standard of 1.140 to 1.150. That doesn't match the Speer manual. Obviously, I have much to learn. Advice appreciated... I just want to "Get it right".
Thanks.

[NoSecondBest]

Size a couple of them and measure them again. They get longer when sized. The manual says to trim to a length shorter than the maximum length simply because these cases will not stretch beyond maximum length ever. I've been shooting some cases I've had for twenty years and I don't even know how many times they've been loaded. After a lot of loadings some of them split near the case mouth, but none...not a one, ever got too long. The only reason to even bother trimming them at all is to start out with all your cases the exact same length. Most of the cases for 38spl and 357mag never get trimmed. They're so close to being the same when new that they all fall into the crimp groove on the bullets I use. FWIW, I own a couple of custom built 357mag handguns that shoot right around an inch at 50yds with these cases and my select load. I'd guess that it's not hurting anything. Good question though and by asking you learn. Best of luck and have fun shooting.

[Nick_C_S]

1.142 to 1.150 is only eight thousandths. I wouldn't bother trimming them.

I have 2000 Starline 38 Special cases and I have trimmed none of them. They make tac-driver accurate and consistent rounds.

Trimming is a lot of work and is something of a skill. It would seem easy to trim to the exact same length every time, but reality changes things. My trimmer is an RCBS and even after setting, I can easily "squeeze" another 10+ thousandths of trim just by pressing harder. The entire apparatus flexes. Point is, it's a lot of work and results may not meet expectations.

I think it's best to just leave 'em be.

[g.willikers]

Me, three.
Variances in your powder drop, whichever one you use, will introduce more of a variable than that little bit of case length difference.
So will depth of bullet seating.
Don't sweat the small stuff, especially the really small stuff.

[axismatt]

I once bought a small batch of copper jacketed bullets that had the tiniest cannelure, so when I tried to seat them to my desired depth, the cannelure was pushed too deep. In the end, I seated them a tiny bit long so the crimp met the cannelure, as they still fit easily in the .357. I suppose the slight increase in volume might affect pressure, but they worked fine. Still, this was the only time I considered trimming a pistol case to get a desired OAL.

I think most will agree that trimming would be an exception.

[FITASC]

I have been reloading 38 (among others) for over 35 years. I have never trimmed a pistol case and do not intend to start. I reload them until they split. Since I shoot (and my guns prefer) middle of the road powder charges, I can easily get 15+ loading before they split.

[Unclenick]

BJM42,

The only time I've seen the case length variation cause an issue was with very hard crimps into a jacketed bullet cannelure, but even that was mostly just the crimp feel. If you have a silhouette gun that can shoot very tight groups, the difference in bullet pull that produces may have an effect, but it may not.

Normally that SAAMI length range is to give manufacturers a target they can go plus or minus around. NoSecondBest is right that sizing can change it, and since a lot of folks now use progressive presses, there is the expectation they will be sized again before initial loading, so Starline erring on the short side make sense from that standpoint.

These cases don't tend to grow or shrink. The peak pressure is in a range that doesn't stick the brass to the chamber wall hard enough to produce head stretching. Instead, the whole case tends to back up in the chamber and get a little shorter and fatter by filling the chamber out, but then goes right back to length when resized again.

[243winxb]

Maximum 1.155" and 1.135" minimum http://www.saami.org

[jag2]

You may at some point need to trim some brass because it has stretched and is too long to feed properly, but I'm talking rifle brass. I can't imagine ever having to trim 38 spl brass. I foolishly bought a case trimmer when I started out reloading about 30 years ago. Haven't used it yet.

[mikld]

As you can see, some don't trim straight walled handgun brass (I don't and I didn't hear of anyone trimming revolver brass until I went on line). Handgun brass/cases do not grow in length as do bottle necked rifle cases, and some even shorten. SAAMI data says case length for a .38 Special is 1.155" -.020" (1.135"-1.155") so your 1.142" is still well within manufacturer's standards.

I believe reloading manuals are not exact formula, more like published results of various powder charges used with different components and reflect what the test tech used. My Lyman manual listed a "Trim to length" of 1.149"...

Reread post #3...

[T. O'Heir]

"...until I went on line..." Lotta stuff in Firearms Land like that. snicker.
Having your cases all the same length matters far more with a bottle necked rifle case than it ever will with a .38. OAL matters with a .38. Case length not so much.
However, if you want to trim 'em do so to the 1.142". You'll probably never do it again.

[primerman]

I only trim my pistol brass because i'm sick and need something to keep my hands and eyes busy. Oh yeah, resize first it can make a difference. On the days my meds are working I get out the calipers and measure out the brass that is close to the same size and load them but only after I resize first...

[noylj]

1) Trimming for consistency is a waste of time unless you are shooting 1 MOA or smaller.
2) case length and trimming occurs after sizing.
3) All straight-wall cases are too small and they stay too small for the life of the case (though some have claimed that hot .45-70 and .45-90 loads can cause the case to lengthen).
4) for roll crimping, the crimp groove/cannelure is much wider than any variation in case length and, if you separate seating from crimping, you won't have any problems. I set the seating stem so the case mouth is just below the top of the cannelure/crimp groove and then use a separate roll crimp die. The best roll crimp die I have found is a Redding Profile Crimp die.
5) I have loaded .38 Spl for revolvers and four S&W M52s. I have tried trimming to consistent length for better accuracy. After trimming, there was NO improvement in accuracy for either the revolvers or the semi-autos. There was also no improvement by sorting by head stamp or sorting by weight. I figure to the extent that these actions make any difference to highly accurate rifles, they have no bearing on handguns that are lucky to shoot 4 MOA and most can't even do 12 MOA.
Tried this for .44 Mag also and got the same results. So, if you have to trim cases, I would only trim a few and see if it really makes any difference.
6) If you are just starting out, why not just do basic reloading and LEARN what you are doing before you try to solve problems you probably don't have and can't fix by using some technique that might make a 0.3MOA load shoot 0.29MOA.
7) SAAMI case length of 1.135-1.155". Trim-to-length is generally to the min case length--for bottleneck cases (again, I have never found a straight-wall case to do anything other than SHRINk over many firing cycles).

[mikld]

"...until I went on line..." Lotta stuff in Firearms Land like that. snicker.
Having your cases all the same length matters far more with a bottle necked rifle case than it ever will with a .38. OAL matters with a .38. Case length not so much.
However, if you want to trim 'em do so to the 1.142". You'll probably never do it again.

Yep, I've found lots of operations that have become "mandatory" in the last few years. When I started in '69, the only tumbling I heard of was finishing or deburring machined parts, in a factory with huge machines. Who would tumble cases? If someone wants to use some of these methods, fine, but I get POed when these are recommended to newcomers as a "must". I prolly reloaded 5,000 38 Special cases before I read somewhere I "had to" trim them so I could get a "uniform" crimp...

[Ozzieman]

I have 44 special cases I have been reloading for over 25 years (a guess would be 10 or more times). When they crack they get trashed. When the primers go in to easily, they get trashed.
I would never even consider trimming them. I shoot to much and it takes to long.
The only pistol cases I trim sorry typo there I meant to say measure are a small number of 44 mag for a bolt action gun I play with and only to keep them all the same. These have short life spans because they are loaded extremely hot and only get a couple of reloads. They are marked each time and inspected very carefully each time for stretch.
Unless your trying to do professional level marksmanship with a 38, length sizing in my simple, more experienced than some and less experienced than a lot here is a waist of time. Total waist of time.

[ShootistPRS]

I have trimmed 9mm, 357, 45 Colt, and 38 special.
If you are expanding case mouths and or crimping then cartridge length is very important.

[Ozzieman]

If you are expanding case mouths and or crimping then cartridge length is very important.

Could you expand on this and why its important since you always have to expand the case mouth and crimp when reloading pistol cases?


+1

but I get POed when these are recommended to newcomers as a "must". I prolly reloaded 5,000 38 Special cases before I read somewhere I "had to" trim them so I could get a "uniform" crimp...

[NoSecondBest]

Unless you're expanding them to ridiculous dimensions, that will have no effect on whether or not you trim. Cases always get expanded as part of loading straight walled pistol cases. Some people over-do it and cause problems. They only have to get expanded enough to simply get the bullet started going in the case. Here, less is better.

[bjm42]

8 yrs of reloading rifle ammo has taught me that little things do mean a lot. As I am just starting to load handgun, I appreciate knowing what really matters.
Thanks to all.

[Real Gun]

So far, I have only trimmed magnum cases and 45 Colt used for "Ruger only" loads. I want a consistent crimp and also share dies with the shorter version of the cartridge using Redding spacers. For example, 38 Special and 357 Magnum use the same dies with the same settings, varying only by the spacers on the expander and seat/crimp dies. The two size cases have to have lengths with a difference of exactly the thickness of the spacers.

I get pretty good consistency with 38 Special and 44 Special by sorting head stamps, but I have actually sized a few of those too.

[ShootistPRS]

Ozzieman,
If you set the expander die to be just enough at maximum cartridge length and you have cases that are shorter then they won't be expanded enough. If you adjust the die for cases at "trim to" length and you have cases that are longer they will be expanded more - sometimes enough to split the case.

Having all the cases at the same length, and keeping them at that length your expansion die will do a good job on all of them.

This is part of the reason that I always trim cases (or at least run them through the trimmer) with each reload. The crimp is consistent and the expander opens the cases just enough to start the bullet.

[FITASC]

I load LSWC and I always get a perfect crimp without ever trimming a 38 case; some of those have been reloaded way more than a dozen times.