too hot 45 colt?

[coolhandluke4]

Hey all, I've just gotten back into reloading after a 8 year dry spell. I"m loading 45 colt in a 4 5/8" Ruger Blackhawk. I have been just loading target rounds, 200gr. swc. I picked up a box of 250gr. Hornady XTP, and wanted to try them. In my Modern Reloading manual for 45 colt, it shows using 5.5 to 6.3 grains titegroup. These worked great, very light recoil. I also wanted something a bit hotter. In the "Ruger and TC" section, it showed to use 25.7 to 26.3 grains of H110 with the same bullet. I loaded them at the 25.7 grain starting point. They were slightly unpleasant to shoot. The kick was worse than my 44 magnum I used to own, and it threw a three foot fireball out the front.
After all that, my question is can I go lower than their starting point? I'd like something hotter than the 750 or so feet per second out of the titegroup, but not as punishing as the 25.7 gr. of the H110. I'd like to keep the same powder, since I already have it and not switch to something else.
Ideas?
Thanks!

[JayT]

Coolhandluke4, my experience with h110 suggests it works best in loads towards the high end of published data. In lighter loads, I've found it to perform inconsistently to the detriment of accuracy. I recall being warned against light loads of h110--but can't provide a source at the moment. I believe without sufficient pressure, it ignites poorly and can tend to produce squib loads. Perhaps someone else can verify this.

For Ruger/TC level .45 colt loads, I've had excellent luck with Universal (NOT Universal Clays, this is a different powder) and 2400. The former produces good accuracy in my 7" Blackhawk from plinker level to magnum power loads. 2400 loaded hot is my favorite long range powder for this cartridge. I suspect ultimately you may want to change powders.

Best of luck and happy shooting.

JayT

[Ozzieman]

H110 is can be dangerous in loads under minimum loads.
What I use for non magnum loads in all my large bore wheel guns is Herco. It’s very accurate but a little dirty.
Personally I would stay away from H110 with Long Colt.

[Mal H]

Man oh man, CHL4, those are really "sturdy" loads for a .45 Colt! I would even wonder about them being a misprint. Please double check the load and the bullet weight and type.

Like Ozzieman, I tend to not use H110 (W296) in .45 Colt for heavy loads, and stick with powders that have a wider range of usage such as 2400, Unique, etc. All of my usage of H110 is with calibers that end in the word "Magnum".

However, if you want to try a lighter load of H110, I see no real reason not to. Looking at Speer #13 in the .45 Colt Ruger & T/C section, they have a min/max of 18.5 / 20.0 grains of H110 with a 260 grain JHP. So I would say you can go lower than the "Modern Reloading" manual says without fear of a light load problem.

[long rider]

45 colt loads ( ruger freedom arms t/c only).

250 grn hdy xtp max load 9.5 grns titegroup.
Thats if you want to shoot titegroup, all so
there is h4227, lil gun,h110, these are loads
by hodgdon, and there is more hot loads for
45 colt.
All so there is accurate they make high pressure
loads for 45 colt, but the down side of hot 45colt
loads the cases tend to sterch big time, the case
wall is very thin, unlike the 44 mag case, wich is
built for high pressure,there is more if you want.

Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

[coolhandluke4]

Dang, MalH, you scared me thinking I was going to blow up my gun. I checked the Modern reloading book again, my Nosler book for similar bullets, and I just got on Hodgon's website to check, and all say 25.7 to 26.5 grains of the H110. So I was on the LOW side of their loads.

I don't want to shoot anything THAT hot, but don't want to waste a pound of powder either.

[long rider]

Have you checked out the 45 winchester magnum loads
in the hodgdons loading manual, Check them out.

Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

[T-Bear]

I use H110 in my hot 45LC rds.
255gr LFP with 20.5gr H110 Nice and stout comming out of a Super Redhawk 454
I use 23gr pushing a 240gr XTP in 45LC and it's nice and still pleasent to shoot.

[First Shirt]

I use hard-cast 300-gr WFN bullets over 23 gr. of H-110, and it's about the upper limit of my recoil tolerance, but the penetration is impressive!

[ligonierbill]

Speer #13 lists their 260 gr JHP between 18.5 and 20.0 gr H110 "Blackhawk only". Their hottest load is a 300 gr UCSP between 21.1 and 23.5. Hornady does not list H110, but does list a pretty wide range of 296, which is close. Check this: http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/A...SOLVINGTHEMYTH
I have had good results in my 6 1/2" Blackhawk with Oregon Trail cast flat point bullets:
250 gr/10.5 gr AA#5/CCI 300 primer 980 fps STD 17
250 gr/20.0 gr H110/CCI 350 primer 1260 fps STD 27.6
300 gr/20.0 gr H110/CCI 350 primer 1240 fps STD (can't find the record)
Many sources list heavier charges for Blackhawks, including Hogdon. Both 250 gr loads are plenty accurate. I have not done a lot of shooting with the 300 gr yet. Frankly, I loaded the boomers for hunting, but that 980 fps round is real nice to shoot and plenty powerful.

[Stargazer]

I use the new cases once with hot loads like 25 grains of WW296 and then they go to the Unique load of 9.5 grs. Check out this video for some recoil comparisons.

Ruger recoil video

[T-Bear]

star,
You can get more hot loadings using starline brass.
With my full power loads for 45LC and 454 casull. I go to 3 full power loads before they get rejected down to plinking rounds.
You might want to look into it. Save more $$$ down the road

[Pathfinder45]

For me, H-110 and Winchester296 is really too much in my Vaquero. Impressive power but less than pleasant to shoot. A much better powder for warm loads is AA-9. Also good are 4227, 2400, and HS-7. They all go as hot as I care to go. Plus they are more forgiving of lower charges. Using 296 I've had hang-fires with WLP primers; CCI magnum primers were better for that powder. Also, I've read that H-110 is inconsistent, i.e., reduced velocity in really cold weather compared to H-4227. I could go on...... 45 Colt is my most reloaded cartridge. I shoot it more than all others combined. Unique is one of the best powders....

[blackhawk45]

For my plinkin rounds, Win brass,CCI mag primers ,250gr Meisterbullet LRNFP,and 9.0grs, of Hodgens HS-6 And for serious business ( WHITETAILS )
Win brass,CCI mag primers,Hornady,250gr XTPs,and 26.5 grs of Win 296,both loads are very accurate , as a warning the heavy win296 load can be a hand full, and not for the timid.and should only be used in Ruger Blackhawks,Redhawks,Freedom Arms and T/C pistols.

[Sevens]

A question for you .45 Colt aficionados:
Why the .45 Colt?

Now this is a serious question and I'm not at all trying to offend anyone. I'm just curious because I'm sure there is something I'm missing from the equation. Is there something the .45 Colt offers that can't be done with the .44 Mag?

What I mean is, if you have a .45 Colt, you love it, you load for it, you are happy, and that makes perfect sense to me. This doesn't need to be explained-- if you've fallen for it, I know exactly what that's about.

I guess the question is, if you have neither a .44 mag or a .45 Colt and you are in the market for a slick new single action and a Blackhawk is on your short list, what's your reason for choosing the .45 over the .44?

I get that it's a terrific Cowboy Action caliber, so I see that. There's history and nostalgia in the caliber. But the .44 can be loaded down to .45 Colt territory and then can be loaded quite a ways up, and well beyond.

I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way-- It's a serious question. I just wonder if there's something about the old .45 Colt that I've missed. Perhaps the cast bullet selection is much better, I don't know.

But I'm curious!

[Pathfinder45]

SEVENS: Your question will take more than a short post to answer; but I'll start it. If your are that hypothetical person that wants the said revolver for hunting and do not reload; I would recommend the .44 over the .45 FOR YOU. But if do you reload and like to shoot this one particular gun a lot, then the .45 Colt is for you and the .44 magnum will simply not do! Actually, in the Blackhawk format the two cartridges are near twins with the .45 having a small advantage with bullets of 300-plus grains. I've been reloading the .45 since 1976. I never even heard of cowboy-action back then. But the aesthetic appeal of the .45 Colt was quite strong even then. The romance of a century-plus old cartridge that was there at the Little-Bighorn and OK Corral and Klondike Trail is something the .44 magnum can never have. I know, it's got Dirty Harry, but so what; that's just a movie. It wasn't there for the cattle-drives, range wars, boom towns and mining camps. The .44 magnum never met an Indian attack nor stopped the Moros in the Philipines. It was never loaded with black powder; it was never on the frontier. the .45 Colt was THE magnum revolver cartridge of the black-powder age. All nostalgia aside, the two cartridges are, "equal". So what does all this nostagic stuff count for in choosing between the two? Nothing........Everything! Make mine a .45 Colt!

[zxcvbob]

8 to 8.5 grains of Red Dot is a good +P plinking load in a Ruger using 200 grain cast bullets.

For something more powerful, try Herco.

[Sevens]

Pathfinder-- that's about what I figured! There's a lot to be said for nostalgia and for just having a revolver and a round that you love.

[Ozzieman]

I have never loaded really hot loads for the 45 LC, I have several guns for that cartridge from a Smith 25, a Ruger Blackhawk with two cylinders and a Vaquero. Personally I don’t want to beat on those guns that much and expect them to last as long as I do (probably longer). I don’t know if it’s true today but older cases the 45 LC was thinner walled than the 44 mag.
The 44 Mag is another story, I have loaded rounds for the Contender that that I have in 44 that were higher than book numbers. The gun is basically a short barrel rifle and will take loads that I would never want to put through a wheel gun.
My favorite of the two is 45 LC but for heavy loads it will always be the 44 mag.

[ligonierbill]

Sevens, if you like that old Mauser, ya gotta get a .45 Colt (much energy nearby on "Long" Colt). It's not only history. I wanted more punch than a .357 in the woods, but I really didn't think I needed a .44 Mag. Sure, you can shoot .44 Spl, but really the .44 is designed for very powerful loads. I was thinking .41 Mag, when someone on this forum put me onto that Linebaugh article. I was sold on the versatility of the .45 if you load your own. I don't try to match .44 Mag rounds, although you can. If I ever decide on "more", which I doubt, there's the .454 Casull or the .460. Oh yeah, many, many bullet choices for .45.

[rezman]

Long time .45 Ruger reloader here.

I'm surprised no one keyed in on his original comment "The kick was worse than my 44 magnum I used to own". The load you are using generates more power than a 44 mag. Heavier bullet, similar or slightly greater velocity.

I have chrono checked loads with 24 grains of lil'gun power behind the 250grain XTP just over 1450 fps in a 7.5 Ruger. The casing either dropped out by gravity or by light bump from ejector rod. I was amazed. Recoil was what one might expect with a load generating this kind of power.

I beleive the greatest advantage over the 44 Mag is when boolit weight is pushed to 300. I can get about 1350 fps with 23 grains lil'gun, but I am hitting 4"-5" high at 25yards with sight maxed low, due to recoil. I bet this load would penetrate anything in North America end to end with gas checked hard lead boolits. I am thinking of having a higher front sight installed, just in case I am attacked by a homicidal buffalo, but dropping to 20 grains of lil'gun still gives me about 1200 fps, and only shoots and inch or two high.

Bottom line, the 45 in a Ruger will best a 44 mag, but so will the recoil. Something about a law of physics and all that.

[Ultima-Ratio]

Does nobody use the search function anymore?

For the OP, step down some using your loading manual if ya gotta use up that H-110!

For the curious, checkout the history of the Casull, Dick developed his loads using .45 Colt/LONG Colt brass.

Your second research project in John Linebaugh.

The Long Colt generally runs the heavier BULLETS at equal velocities to the .44 Maggie BUT at lower pressure.

Sadly, the Long Colt doesn't equal the .44 Maggie with lighter bullets (ie. the .44 will run a 185gner well in excess of 1800fps) for those of us that would rather skin and gut instead of follow blood trail from that neat little hole ya made with your long distance hole puncher.

[Sevens]

Does nobody use the search function anymore?

What? I'm a big proponent of the search engine. I use it quite a bit. I simply figured since:
--the thread had run a bit
--a whole audience of .45 Colt fans were present

...it seemed like quite the valid question. Furthermore, there are plenty of folks who weren't on here and posting every day with opinions whenever it was discussed last, much to your dismay.

I think adding to a live topic with a relevant question makes a helluva lot more sense than either starting a brand new topic... or bumping an old one. In fact, this is one of the few discussion forums I've used where it reminds you with a prompt that bumping old threads may not be the best method for generating discussion.

Can't tell me that simply because someone discussed it a year ago... it shouldn't be brought up again?

Oh well... can't please everyone all the time.

[AlaskaMike]

Sevens, I think it's a good question. It's just one that comes up often because most people have a hard time wrapping their brains around the fact that the .45 Colt, in a strong revolver, can push a heavier bullet at the same velocity as a .44 mag and do it with less pressure.

I always recommend what Pathfinder45 mentioned--if you don't reload, go with the .44 mag; if you do reload, go with the .45 Colt in a heavy revolver like the Blackhawk or Redhawk.

Ultima-ratio has two great points--John Linebaugh has written some excellent articles about the .45 Colt. Also, .45 Colt brass is *not* weak. Perhaps it was when only balloon head cases were available, but modern .45 Colt brass is every bit as strong and durable as modern .44 Mag brass.

Coolhandluke4, even though I have a high view of the .45 Colt in Ruger revolvers, I think I'd still back that load down a bit. I've used the Lyman 454424 255 grain case SWC with both 23 and 24 grains of W296 using CCI magnum primers with great results. They gave me 1278 and 1338 fps, respectively out of my 7.5" Redhawk. SD was in the single digits for both loads, showing that ignition was very consistent.

Mike

[Sevens]

Good stuff. I had always been under the assumption that .45 Colt brass was inherently weaker.