Original Colt 1849 Pocket??

kej1131 · December 2, 2013, 03:02 PM

Dear friends,

Can you help me find out about this Colt 1849 is an original or a replica. The barrel inside indicates having shot with black powder. The diameter of most of the screws is 0.162 inch.

Best regards

Knud E. Joergensen

kej1131 · December 2, 2013, 03:06 PM

kej1131 · December 2, 2013, 03:09 PM

PetahW · December 2, 2013, 03:11 PM

.

It appears to be an original Colt, that has a non-matching SN on the gripframe (at a minimum), & an old refinish over a poor polishing job.

.

kej1131 · December 2, 2013, 03:21 PM

Value?

Doc Hoy · December 2, 2013, 04:51 PM

The markings, if they are fake were done very convincingly. The nipples look recent. Haven't a clue about value.

Hawg · December 2, 2013, 08:35 PM

The cylinder isn't original to the gun, the wedge screw is wrong, The trigger guard screw is either loose or the wrong one and the barrel has had the sight dovetailed in. All of those will reduce value considerably.

Fingers McGee · December 2, 2013, 09:24 PM

Cylinder is probably original although nipples look new. Has SN that matches rest of gun and is high enough that the 49s came with either 5 or 6 shot cylinders. Wedge and screw could have been replacements, it was probably refinished - time frame unknown. It has definitely not been a safe queen all its life.

Oh. by SN, it was made in 1863.

Hawg · December 3, 2013, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Cylinder is probably original

Not saying it isn't an original but the numbers don't match.

gyvel · December 3, 2013, 06:26 AM

"It appears to be an original Colt, that has a non-matching SN on the gripframe (at a minimum), & an old refinish over a poor polishing job."

Which part isn't matched? All the parts. barrel, receiver, trigger plate and grip frame all look like 243100. Did I miss something?

FWIW, the cylinder looks like a renumber. Could be original or could be a replica.

Fingers McGee · December 3, 2013, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gyvel

FWIW, the cylinder looks like a renumber. Could be original or could be a replica.

Has to be an original. None of the replica makers make a six shot .31 cal cylinder for Colt's Pocket Model.

PetahW · December 3, 2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gyvel

Which part isn't matched? All the parts. barrel, receiver, trigger plate and grip frame all look like 243100. Did I miss something?

IMO, the cylinder SN stamping looks incomplete / bogus.

.

Fingers McGee · December 3, 2013, 05:55 PM

1849 Pocket models had a two line serial number stamping. First line said "Colt's Patent", second line had "No. X--X" where X--X would be at most the last 5 digits of the serial number. The stamping on this gun is correct.

James K · December 3, 2013, 06:52 PM

I am sure that the gun is original, but it has seen a lot of use and was likely rusted before being heavily polished and given a quick and dirty bluing job.

The cylinder did not have the full serial if it exceeded 5 digits, so 43100 would be correct for serial number 243100. The number is in the correct position. Those numbers were heavily stamped, while the "scene" was roll engraved and is quite light. It is normal for the number to survive refinishing that will remove the cylinder engraving, and that appears to be the case here.

Frankly, the gun is in such poor condition that I think a fake is pretty well ruled out. (Why fake a poor condition, low value gun?)

Colt made a whole lot of those guns and IMHO one in that condition is only worth about $300-400.

Jim

gyvel · December 15, 2013, 02:42 PM

Quote:

IMO, the cylinder SN stamping looks incomplete / bogus.

I agreed with that. As I stated: " FWIW, the cylinder looks like a renumber."

Hawg · December 15, 2013, 03:13 PM

I read the number as something entirely different the first time. Guess my eyes were screwy that day.

December 2, 2013, 04:51 PM	#6
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Hmmmm... The markings, if they are fake were done very convincingly. The nipples look recent. Haven't a clue about value. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

December 2, 2013, 09:24 PM	#8
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Cylinder is probably original although nipples look new. Has SN that matches rest of gun and is high enough that the 49s came with either 5 or 6 shot cylinders. Wedge and screw could have been replacements, it was probably refinished - time frame unknown. It has definitely not been a safe queen all its life. Oh. by SN, it was made in 1863. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

December 3, 2013, 05:55 PM	#13
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	1849 Pocket models had a two line serial number stamping. First line said "Colt's Patent", second line had "No. X--X" where X--X would be at most the last 5 digits of the serial number. The stamping on this gun is correct. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

December 2, 2013, 03:11 PM	#4
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. It appears to be an original Colt, that has a non-matching SN on the gripframe (at a minimum), & an old refinish over a poor polishing job. .

December 2, 2013, 08:35 PM	#7
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	The cylinder isn't original to the gun, the wedge screw is wrong, The trigger guard screw is either loose or the wrong one and the barrel has had the sight dovetailed in. All of those will reduce value considerably.

December 3, 2013, 06:26 AM	#10
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	"It appears to be an original Colt, that has a non-matching SN on the gripframe (at a minimum), & an old refinish over a poor polishing job." Which part isn't matched? All the parts. barrel, receiver, trigger plate and grip frame all look like 243100. Did I miss something? FWIW, the cylinder looks like a renumber. Could be original or could be a replica.

December 3, 2013, 06:52 PM	#14
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am sure that the gun is original, but it has seen a lot of use and was likely rusted before being heavily polished and given a quick and dirty bluing job. The cylinder did not have the full serial if it exceeded 5 digits, so 43100 would be correct for serial number 243100. The number is in the correct position. Those numbers were heavily stamped, while the "scene" was roll engraved and is quite light. It is normal for the number to survive refinishing that will remove the cylinder engraving, and that appears to be the case here. Frankly, the gun is in such poor condition that I think a fake is pretty well ruled out. (Why fake a poor condition, low value gun?) Colt made a whole lot of those guns and IMHO one in that condition is only worth about $300-400. Jim

December 15, 2013, 03:13 PM	#16
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I read the number as something entirely different the first time. Guess my eyes were screwy that day.