Suggestions for a first revolver invited.

pathdoc · July 26, 2020, 09:45 AM

SPECIFICATION

Intended use: Casual shooting, possibly IPSC revolver.

Restrictions: I live in Canada, so ultra-compact revolvers are off the table (minimum barrel length is at least 4 inches IIRC) and self-defence use is not a consideration. The silver lining is that I don't have to be able to wear it all day, it doesn't have to be concealable, and I can carry it holstered openly when on the range.

Considerations for calibre: I have all the necessary gear for reloading 9mm, and have considered a 9mm Parabellum revolver for commonality. I could down-load 9mm for low recoil without cycling issues, but this raises the issue of what happens if light loads meant for the revolver end up in the automatic - not dangerous, just frustrating.

The alternatives, therefore, are .357 Magnum and .38 Special. A .357 Magnum revolver suggests itself due to being able to use both types of ammunition, but can the experienced hands tell me if there is any downside at all with feeding a .357 a steady diet of .38 Special? The only downside of this is the need to buy an extra set of reloading dies, have bullets in the ever so slightly larger calibre, etc.

buck460XVR · July 26, 2020, 10:06 AM

I would consider a S&W 686 with either the 5" or 6" barrel. Rugged, accurate and good trigger right out of the box. Will shoot either .357s or .38s equally well. Only issue of shooting .38s in a .357 is the crud ring that will form in the chamber in front of the shorter bullets. This can lead to hard loading/extraction of .357 brass or increased chamber pressure. Just clean chambers well after shooting .38s and before shooting .357.

PatientWolf · July 26, 2020, 10:18 AM

You don’t list price as a consideration but in your situation, I would be looking at a Smith and Wesson 586 or 686 or alternatively a Ruger GP100. Any of those in .357. I’d look for a 5” barrel which I think is the ideal length for a range revolver but would consider a slightly shorter or longer barrel.

No problem shooting .38 special, but you may have to make sure you clean the cylinder really well to avoid build-up that could give you problems for loading a .357 round doe to the OAL.

jetinteriorguy · July 26, 2020, 10:23 AM

Another good one is a Ruger GP100. I’m an old S&W guy for about 40 years but I got a GP in a trade deal last year and have fallen in love with it. Out of the box it ain’t as good as a Smith, but with a little work and a few parts it will rival any Smith I’ve ever had. Polish the internals, lighten the springs and put in a shim set and they are very very nice. Plenty of videos on how to do this, only takes a couple hours and for about $20.00-$30.00 worth of parts it’s a keeper. The nice thing about the Ruger design is how easy they are to work on since the whole fire control group pops out of the frame to be worked on. Just go to Trigger shims.com for all you need. If you have any questions just call, I think the owners name is John, but whatever it is again he is the nicest most helpful guy in the world.

Hal · July 26, 2020, 11:30 AM

Ruger GP100 - or S&W 686. Either or.

Quote:

can the experienced hands tell me if there is any downside at all with feeding a .357 a steady diet of .38 Special? The only downside of this is the need to buy an extra set of reloading dies, have bullets in the ever so slightly larger calibre, etc

Using the shorter .38spl in the .357 chamber can and will leave a carbon ring that can hinder loading .357 mag ammunition until it's been cleaned out.
Cleaning the chambers will cure that.
If/when I'm at the range & don't want to waste range time cleaning - I shove a spent .357 case into the chambers & scrape the carbon ring out enough to allow using the longer .357 ammo.
FYI - the .357 & .38 spl take a bullet that's .357 to .358 " in diameter.
The 9mm Luger takes a bullet that's .355" in diameter.

Loading the smaller 9mm bullets in a .357 or .38 case will give you very disappointing results. At least it did for me & quite a few others.

If you set on using a D/A, you're pretty much stuck with chosing either 9mm or .38/.357mag.

If you go with something like a Ruger Blackhawk - a S/A - you might be able to get one of the Convertible models - they come with both a 9mm cylinder & a .38/.357 cylinder.

2wheelwander · July 26, 2020, 11:35 AM

I have both the 686 and GP100 in 6". 686 hands down in a nicer shooter. Much better factory trigger than the GP100. The GP100 is not a bad shooter whatsoever, but the Smith has the edge. Have not considered a trigger job on the Ruger, plan on leaving it as is.

GP100 fits my hand much better though. For me, it handles better in the hand than the Smith. Both have factory rubber grips.

Love them both.

mikejonestkd · July 26, 2020, 12:36 PM

As mentioned above, the Smith 586/ 686 or the Ruger GP100 are outstanding choices.
My preference is for the 686 with a 5-6" barrel, they are very well made, accurate and have excellent trigger out of the box.

AustinTX · July 26, 2020, 01:31 PM

How much are you looking to spend? Are you willing to look at older-production guns, or do you only want something currently produced?

If you just want a solid and relatively inexpensive (three figures) mass-production .357 Mag. revolver, you’re looking principally at the S&W and Ruger models already suggested. I personally think that quality control from both companies in recent years has been at or near the lowest point I’ve ever seen from them (and I would never spend money on a S&W with the internal lock), but both have very good reputations for sorting out problems through customer service after the sale. The L-frame S&Ws have always left me a bit cold, but, objectively speaking, they make more sense in .357 Mag. than the older N-frames I love so much. Take a look at a Model 27, in any case. Rugers do nothing for me, but they are very good, rugged revolvers that can generally be “slicked up” without great expense. Between a S&W or a Ruger, I would always favor the S&W for its superior trigger and general edge in refinement.

If, on the other hand, you’re interested in owning one of the finest DA revolvers ever produced (Korth, Manurhin), you’ll be paying several multiples of the S&W and Ruger asking prices.

jimku · July 26, 2020, 08:22 PM

Well, for a revolver, between 9mm, 357 and 38 Special, to me the hands-down winner is 357. Being able to shoot both 38 Special and 357 makes it far more versatile than either of the others.

OK, now we can debate which of the 50,000 or so different 357 revolvers out there is the "best one", and I expect to be long dead and buried before any consensus is reached.

Rockhanger · July 26, 2020, 08:29 PM

Take a look at the Dan Wesson revolvers.
You won"t be sorry you did.

44caliberkid · July 26, 2020, 08:33 PM

Smith and Wesson 586 or 686.

jrothWA · July 26, 2020, 09:38 PM

Any of the 4" barrel revolvers are good I use a Ruger Security Six for deer hunting and no problem with .38 Spl use, unless you DON'T clean the Cylinder.

**44 AMP** · July 27, 2020, 01:31 AM

First question, you're required 4" by law, but would a longer barrel work for your purposes??

Possible IPSC use means a DA gun so I'll skip the virtues of the SA revolver (Ruger Blackhawk in particular).

Several have recommended the S&W 586 (blued) or 686 (stainless). They are fine guns, but I don't care for their balance.

Before you commit to a purchase, at least handle several different models and barrel lengths. Shoot some if at all possible, but at the least handle them, see how each one feels, how it points, how they are different from each other, size, weight and feel.

The S&W L frame (586 & 686) with their full underlug barrels are an example. They weigh the same as the larger N frame guns (with the same barrel length) but they have a muzzle heavy balance in my hand. I don't like that. Some people do like that. It's a personal thing, so you should handle some and some other guns before making a final decision.

When small size and light weight are not a factor, my personal favorite DA revolver is a S&W N frame, made no later than the early 1980s. Pinned barrels and recessed chambers in magnum calibers, no MIM parts, hammer mounted firing pin, adjustable sights and generally the best "out of the box" triggers around.

I'm partial to the Model 28 "Highway Patrolman" model, or, if you're wallet is fat, get a Model 27.

BUT, get what FEELS best in your hand. To begin with.

buck460XVR · July 27, 2020, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

First question, you're required 4" by law, but would a longer barrel work for your purposes??

I believe Canadian law is minimum of ....."106 mm (4.17 inches)" so 4 inchers are not an option.

dontcatchmany · July 27, 2020, 06:06 AM

Look at the S&W 627. (8 ROUNDS)

The 686+ is a good option. (7 ROUNDS)

I have a 4" 627 and also a 3"686+ and both are exceptional revolvers.

Can you get the ammo in Canada?

Dan-O · July 27, 2020, 06:50 AM

You won’t need two different sets of dies if you go the .38/.357 route.

Everyone else has given great suggestions and you can’t go wrong with a gp100 or a smith.

Cheapshooter · July 27, 2020, 07:45 AM

Ruger GP 100 or S&W 586/686.

Quote:

can the experienced hands tell me if there is any downside at all with feeding a .357 a steady diet of .38 Special?

Care must be taken to clean any carbon or fouling build up from the chamber. The Spcl. case being 1/10" shorter than the magnum, there can be a ring of carbon in that space in the front of the chambers. If not removed it can cause problems loading 357 Magnum rounds. A minor issue that is easily resolved with proper cleaning.

PolarFBear · July 27, 2020, 07:55 AM

I have lots of firearms; but if I were limited to only ONE it would be a Smith & Wesson 686. Mine is a four inch model.

osbornk · July 27, 2020, 08:44 AM

Being a cheapskate, the last revolver I purchased was a Charter Arms. They only make revolvers in the USA and they have a great warranty. I have been very pleased with mine.

**44 AMP** · July 27, 2020, 12:47 PM

Quote:

I believe Canadian law is minimum of ....."106 mm (4.17 inches)" so 4 inchers are not an option.

I have heard that, too. Not certain if guns with barrels exactly 4" are prohibited for sale / ownership, or just from import /sale. A 4" S&W would be too short (barely) but a "4inch" Ruger might not be. I've heard Ruger makes their 4" barrel enough longer than 4" to meet Canadian requirements. A 4 5/8", 5" or 6" or longer is legal.

Quote:

Care must be taken to clean any carbon or fouling build up from the chamber. The Spcl. case being 1/10" shorter than the magnum, there can be a ring of carbon in that space in the front of the chambers. If not removed it can cause problems loading 357 Magnum rounds. A minor issue that is easily resolved with proper cleaning.

This is entirely possible (the difference in case lengths is 0.135") however, the "dreaded crap ring" doesn't happen instantly and no one can tell you how many .38 rounds it will take for it to build up to the point where it interferes with chambering a .357 magnum round.

One huge variable is the .38 rounds being fired. Some shoot pretty clean, some are filthy. Obviously the dirtier the ammo fired, the sooner cleaning is needed.

You use the same dies for 38/357. The different cases need different die adjustment for flaring, seating and crimping. RCBS used to include a spacer washer (not sure if they still do) in their die set. You adjusted your die in the press for .38 Spl and then put the spacer between the die and the press for .357s.

I know we've avoided 9mm in revolver, I don't consider it a very good choice for a DA revolver. Can be made to work tolerably well, but requires extra effort (like clips..) and .357 offers much, much greater potential, if you want to use it.

Here's something else, not previously mentioned...

Reloading 9mm for a semi auto, you may have heard (or had to deal with) "bullet set back". With a revolver the issue is exactly the opposite. Bullet "creep" or "jump" (aka "jumping the crimp")

In a revolver, recoil acts on the rounds like a bullet puller. The gun, firmly holding the case, recoils away from the bullet, which inertia tries to keep in place. The amount of pull varies a lot due to several different factors, which is why we crimp (roll crimp) revolver rounds.

there are several little "tips & tricks" loading revolver rounds that don't apply to semi autos, and vice versa.

I've been doing both for about 50 years now, am happy to share what I've learned, in general, or answer any specific questions I can.

another thought, this one about handling different guns and their "feel".
Grips

Grips are easily changed and different size and style grips can make a huge difference in the way the gun feels in your hand. The same gun can feel either right, or wrong, simply by changing the grips.

big al hunter · July 27, 2020, 09:10 PM

If capacity matters more than size, check out the Ruger RedHawk in 357 mag. Comes with an 8 shot cylinder

Don P · July 28, 2020, 05:50 AM

Quote:

possibly IPSC revolver.

I will suggest S&W 627 8 shot 38/357 or a S&W 929 9 mm 8 shot

Quote:

but this raises the issue of what happens if light loads meant for the revolver end up in the automatic - not dangerous, just frustrating.

If you are going to shoot IPSC power factor is involved so semi-autos should work. I down load my 45 acp to 600 fps. for my revolver and these loads will function all my semi-autos

Quote:

Reloading 9mm for a semi auto, you may have heard (or had to deal with) "bullet set back". With a revolver the issue is exactly the opposite. Bullet "creep" or "jump" (aka "jumping the crimp")

In a revolver, recoil acts on the rounds like a bullet puller. The gun, firmly holding the case, recoils away from the bullet, which inertia tries to keep in place. The amount of pull varies a lot due to several different factors, which is why we crimp (roll crimp) revolver rounds.

Good solid crimp will eliminate this issue. My 45 acp and 38 short colt which neither have roll crimp just get a little extra crimp

pete2 · July 28, 2020, 08:51 AM

The S&W 686/586 is hard to beat, prolly impossible to beat.

pathdoc · July 29, 2020, 09:41 PM

Thanks all for your input to date.

I will go have a look and see what's in the LGS and then report back. Buying direct from the store will eliminate any potential legal worries regarding barrel length and let me get my hands on the guns for weight and balance. I am very, VERY attuned to the need to know how the gun "feels" in the hand and also on the trigger - I handled several handguns repeatedly before settling on the M&P, which felt the best overall.

The more I thought about it, the more I considered that the only sensible thing to do is go for .357. Given what 44 AMP has said, I realise that it may actually be more complicated than it first appears to handload the same ammo for a revolver and an automatic; best to keep the calibres separate.

jetinteriorguy · July 30, 2020, 06:03 AM

Sounds like a good plan. .38sp and .357mag are the easiest caliber to load IME. The only thing to be aware of when loading other than full magnum rounds is to be careful not to double charge a round since the cases have a lot of volume and a lot of charges don’t use up a lot of that space. Plus you can use a lot of different powders and get good results, very versatile to load for.

July 26, 2020, 09:45 AM	#1
pathdoc Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2013 Posts: 669	Suggestions for a first revolver invited. SPECIFICATION Intended use: Casual shooting, possibly IPSC revolver. Restrictions: I live in Canada, so ultra-compact revolvers are off the table (minimum barrel length is at least 4 inches IIRC) and self-defence use is not a consideration. The silver lining is that I don't have to be able to wear it all day, it doesn't have to be concealable, and I can carry it holstered openly when on the range. Considerations for calibre: I have all the necessary gear for reloading 9mm, and have considered a 9mm Parabellum revolver for commonality. I could down-load 9mm for low recoil without cycling issues, but this raises the issue of what happens if light loads meant for the revolver end up in the automatic - not dangerous, just frustrating. The alternatives, therefore, are .357 Magnum and .38 Special. A .357 Magnum revolver suggests itself due to being able to use both types of ammunition, but can the experienced hands tell me if there is any downside at all with feeding a .357 a steady diet of .38 Special? The only downside of this is the need to buy an extra set of reloading dies, have bullets in the ever so slightly larger calibre, etc.

July 26, 2020, 12:36 PM	#7
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,716	As mentioned above, the Smith 586/ 686 or the Ruger GP100 are outstanding choices. My preference is for the 686 with a 5-6" barrel, they are very well made, accurate and have excellent trigger out of the box. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

July 26, 2020, 01:31 PM	#8
AustinTX Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2010 Posts: 2,145	How much are you looking to spend? Are you willing to look at older-production guns, or do you only want something currently produced? If you just want a solid and relatively inexpensive (three figures) mass-production .357 Mag. revolver, you’re looking principally at the S&W and Ruger models already suggested. I personally think that quality control from both companies in recent years has been at or near the lowest point I’ve ever seen from them (and I would never spend money on a S&W with the internal lock), but both have very good reputations for sorting out problems through customer service after the sale. The L-frame S&Ws have always left me a bit cold, but, objectively speaking, they make more sense in .357 Mag. than the older N-frames I love so much. Take a look at a Model 27, in any case. Rugers do nothing for me, but they are very good, rugged revolvers that can generally be “slicked up” without great expense. Between a S&W or a Ruger, I would always favor the S&W for its superior trigger and general edge in refinement. If, on the other hand, you’re interested in owning one of the finest DA revolvers ever produced (Korth, Manurhin), you’ll be paying several multiples of the S&W and Ruger asking prices. Last edited by AustinTX; July 26, 2020 at 11:13 PM.

July 27, 2020, 01:31 AM	#13
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	First question, you're required 4" by law, but would a longer barrel work for your purposes?? Possible IPSC use means a DA gun so I'll skip the virtues of the SA revolver (Ruger Blackhawk in particular). Several have recommended the S&W 586 (blued) or 686 (stainless). They are fine guns, but I don't care for their balance. Before you commit to a purchase, at least handle several different models and barrel lengths. Shoot some if at all possible, but at the least handle them, see how each one feels, how it points, how they are different from each other, size, weight and feel. The S&W L frame (586 & 686) with their full underlug barrels are an example. They weigh the same as the larger N frame guns (with the same barrel length) but they have a muzzle heavy balance in my hand. I don't like that. Some people do like that. It's a personal thing, so you should handle some and some other guns before making a final decision. When small size and light weight are not a factor, my personal favorite DA revolver is a S&W N frame, made no later than the early 1980s. Pinned barrels and recessed chambers in magnum calibers, no MIM parts, hammer mounted firing pin, adjustable sights and generally the best "out of the box" triggers around. I'm partial to the Model 28 "Highway Patrolman" model, or, if you're wallet is fat, get a Model 27. BUT, get what FEELS best in your hand. To begin with. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 27, 2020, 09:10 PM	#21
big al hunter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2011 Location: Washington state Posts: 1,558	If capacity matters more than size, check out the Ruger RedHawk in 357 mag. Comes with an 8 shot cylinder __________________ You can't fix stupid....however ignorance can be cured through education!

July 26, 2020, 10:06 AM	#2
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	I would consider a S&W 686 with either the 5" or 6" barrel. Rugged, accurate and good trigger right out of the box. Will shoot either .357s or .38s equally well. Only issue of shooting .38s in a .357 is the crud ring that will form in the chamber in front of the shorter bullets. This can lead to hard loading/extraction of .357 brass or increased chamber pressure. Just clean chambers well after shooting .38s and before shooting .357.

July 26, 2020, 10:18 AM	#3
PatientWolf Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Location: NC Posts: 947	You don’t list price as a consideration but in your situation, I would be looking at a Smith and Wesson 586 or 686 or alternatively a Ruger GP100. Any of those in .357. I’d look for a 5” barrel which I think is the ideal length for a range revolver but would consider a slightly shorter or longer barrel. No problem shooting .38 special, but you may have to make sure you clean the cylinder really well to avoid build-up that could give you problems for loading a .357 round doe to the OAL.

July 26, 2020, 10:23 AM	#4
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,175	Another good one is a Ruger GP100. I’m an old S&W guy for about 40 years but I got a GP in a trade deal last year and have fallen in love with it. Out of the box it ain’t as good as a Smith, but with a little work and a few parts it will rival any Smith I’ve ever had. Polish the internals, lighten the springs and put in a shim set and they are very very nice. Plenty of videos on how to do this, only takes a couple hours and for about $20.00-$30.00 worth of parts it’s a keeper. The nice thing about the Ruger design is how easy they are to work on since the whole fire control group pops out of the frame to be worked on. Just go to Trigger shims.com for all you need. If you have any questions just call, I think the owners name is John, but whatever it is again he is the nicest most helpful guy in the world.

July 26, 2020, 11:35 AM	#6
2wheelwander Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2018 Posts: 539	I have both the 686 and GP100 in 6". 686 hands down in a nicer shooter. Much better factory trigger than the GP100. The GP100 is not a bad shooter whatsoever, but the Smith has the edge. Have not considered a trigger job on the Ruger, plan on leaving it as is. GP100 fits my hand much better though. For me, it handles better in the hand than the Smith. Both have factory rubber grips. Love them both.

July 26, 2020, 08:22 PM	#9
jimku Junior member Join Date: January 2, 2017 Posts: 291	Well, for a revolver, between 9mm, 357 and 38 Special, to me the hands-down winner is 357. Being able to shoot both 38 Special and 357 makes it far more versatile than either of the others. OK, now we can debate which of the 50,000 or so different 357 revolvers out there is the "best one", and I expect to be long dead and buried before any consensus is reached.

July 26, 2020, 08:29 PM	#10
Rockhanger Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2010 Posts: 111	Take a look at the Dan Wesson revolvers. You won"t be sorry you did.

July 26, 2020, 08:33 PM	#11
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,102	Smith and Wesson 586 or 686.

July 26, 2020, 09:38 PM	#12
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	Any of the 4" barrel revolvers are good I use a Ruger Security Six for deer hunting and no problem with .38 Spl use, unless you DON'T clean the Cylinder.

July 27, 2020, 06:06 AM	#15
dontcatchmany Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2010 Posts: 460	Look at the S&W 627. (8 ROUNDS) The 686+ is a good option. (7 ROUNDS) I have a 4" 627 and also a 3"686+ and both are exceptional revolvers. Can you get the ammo in Canada?

July 27, 2020, 06:50 AM	#16
Dan-O Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2011 Location: Northern Colorado Posts: 969	You won’t need two different sets of dies if you go the .38/.357 route. Everyone else has given great suggestions and you can’t go wrong with a gp100 or a smith.

July 27, 2020, 07:55 AM	#18
PolarFBear Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2015 Location: NE Tennessee, a "Free State" Posts: 478	I have lots of firearms; but if I were limited to only ONE it would be a Smith & Wesson 686. Mine is a four inch model.

July 27, 2020, 08:44 AM	#19
osbornk Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2012 Location: Mountains of Appalachia Posts: 1,598	Being a cheapskate, the last revolver I purchased was a Charter Arms. They only make revolvers in the USA and they have a great warranty. I have been very pleased with mine.

July 28, 2020, 08:51 AM	#23
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	The S&W 686/586 is hard to beat, prolly impossible to beat.

July 29, 2020, 09:41 PM	#24
pathdoc Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2013 Posts: 669	Thanks all for your input to date. I will go have a look and see what's in the LGS and then report back. Buying direct from the store will eliminate any potential legal worries regarding barrel length and let me get my hands on the guns for weight and balance. I am very, VERY attuned to the need to know how the gun "feels" in the hand and also on the trigger - I handled several handguns repeatedly before settling on the M&P, which felt the best overall. The more I thought about it, the more I considered that the only sensible thing to do is go for .357. Given what 44 AMP has said, I realise that it may actually be more complicated than it first appears to handload the same ammo for a revolver and an automatic; best to keep the calibres separate.

July 30, 2020, 06:03 AM	#25
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,175	Sounds like a good plan. .38sp and .357mag are the easiest caliber to load IME. The only thing to be aware of when loading other than full magnum rounds is to be careful not to double charge a round since the cases have a lot of volume and a lot of charges don’t use up a lot of that space. Plus you can use a lot of different powders and get good results, very versatile to load for.