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Old September 22, 2020, 11:36 AM   #26
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If you've placed yourself in such situation... you've already lost.
Sometimes the situation places you in it whether you choose to or not.
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Old September 22, 2020, 06:14 PM   #27
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Post 5 nailed it. A lever action with a loading gate is the best option where semi auto's are not allowed or difficult to get and get stuck with fixed magazines. All the revolver magnums are perfectly adequate for distances out to 150 yards- more than enough for urban use.

I would like to see capacities increased and one idea I've pitched to Henry was for them to make a carrier or other part(s) needed to allow their rifles to function with shorter cartridges like .38 Short Colt, .44 Russian, or .45 Cowboy Special for the purpose of increasing the capacity of the tubular magazines.

I've also found that with shorter cartridges, due to their decreased length, I can stick two of them in one loop on a bandolier and double the carrying capacity.

Henry never got back to me on that. Guess they don't like the idea of people opening up their lever actions to replace the parts or they don't see money in the idea, even tho it would likely see huge sales for CAS events where capacity and low recoil is the goal.
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Old September 22, 2020, 06:32 PM   #28
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Marlin 16.5 357,2 Henry 22LR
4 PISTOLS IN 357 MAG
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Old September 22, 2020, 09:42 PM   #29
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Yes, bad situations will find you.
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Old September 23, 2020, 06:46 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by stagpanther View Post
Sometimes the situation places you in it whether you choose to or not.
Okay...
Give us such an example where a typical, law abiding civilian has "needed to use a high volume of fire" somewhere in the the U.S. in say the last 20 years.
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Old September 23, 2020, 09:21 AM   #31
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A gun nut friend has all types of ammo ,high cap mags and guns to match.
He asked me what do I Carry i said a REVOLVER
HAVEN'T RUN OUT OF AMMO IN A GUN FIGHT .
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Old September 23, 2020, 10:03 AM   #32
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My first urban assault rifle was a Marlin '94 lever-action carbine in .357 Magnum. I was looking for a Winchester at the time, but they disappeared right about then. I've always wanted one, and I figured it would be way down on the list of guns that might be banned. I think it's still a good choice for defending the home. 10 rounds is probably enough (2 or 3 is probably enough) and you can top off the magazine thru the side gate if there a lull in the action.

I also have a Mini-14 GB with a fancy walnut stock. With a short magazine it looks like something you'd shoot squirrels and rabbits with, not an EBR. I generally like 20 round mags better than 30s, but I also have the original Ruger 30-rounder it came with and it works well. I've had problems with plastic mags.
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Old September 23, 2020, 10:30 AM   #33
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A lever action carbine will encourage fire discipline, eliminate the idea that if you put enough lead in the air you will hit a bad guy. Like driving a stick shift as opposed to an automatic.
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Old September 23, 2020, 06:17 PM   #34
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Old September 24, 2020, 05:53 AM   #35
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Okay...
Give us such an example where a typical, law abiding civilian has "needed to use a high volume of fire" somewhere in the the U.S. in say the last 20 years.
What has or has not happened in the past is in no way indicative of what the future may bring.
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Old September 24, 2020, 05:59 AM   #36
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What has or has not happened in the past is in no way indicative of what the future may bring.
I never said it did
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Old September 24, 2020, 06:28 AM   #37
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Give us such an example where a typical, law abiding civilian has "needed to use a high volume of fire" somewhere in the the U.S. in say the last 20 years.
That's an easy one, seen gangstah hits where they simply pull up in a vehicle next to their target--which could be anyone or anything in a house--and proceeded to empty multiple magazines from their AK's and/or AR's. The lieutenant that was teaching my CCW class was engaged and shot dead by an itinerant psycho at over 200 yds using an AR. Bullets don't know whether they are law-abiding or not.

I mean to say use whatever weapon you feel you are most effective with. If that's a Trojan battle spear or a Hitori Hanza katana in a shoot-out where the bad guy(s) have the AK's and AR's--more power to you. I do NOT in any way advocate ANY weapon being used against a person(s) unless it is clearly self defense and you have no other choice that would prevent you from being gravely injured or killed imminently.
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Old September 24, 2020, 06:59 AM   #38
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That's an easy one...
I'm still waiting for you to give such an example where a typical, law abiding civilian has "needed to use a high volume of fire" somewhere in the the U.S. in say the last 20 years.
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Old September 24, 2020, 08:26 AM   #39
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"Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it."
I have read than in Vietnam snipers achieved hits with 1.7 rounds while the average GI or Marine needed something like 20,000. But how many of us have what it takes to be a sniper?
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Old September 24, 2020, 08:34 AM   #40
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"needed to use a high volume of fire"
Nobody likes having words stuck in their mouth--show me where I said that.
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Old September 24, 2020, 08:49 AM   #41
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Multiple examples are just a simple Google search away. Here are two of the first examples that popped up.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-hom...-officials-say

https://www.wspa.com/news/man-dies-a...-in-oconee-co/

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Old September 24, 2020, 12:47 PM   #42
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My first urban assault rifle was a Marlin '94 lever-action carbine in .357 Magnum. I was looking for a Winchester at the time, but they disappeared right about then. I've always wanted one, and I figured it would be way down on the list of guns that might be banned.
They are way down the list, being manually operated, but if we go around calling them "urban assault rifles" expect the gun banners to add them/move them up on their list.

Once upon a time, in the past, a tongue in cheek reference to something that wasn't, as an "assault rifle" was harmless. Not so today.

Quote:
I have read than in Vietnam snipers achieved hits with 1.7 rounds while the average GI or Marine needed something like 20,000. But how many of us have what it takes to be a sniper?
That is an "apples and watermelons" comparison. In Vietnam (and still today) snipers fire individual shots at individual targets, and they aim.

The average GI or Marine fires a full auto weapon, and a large part of it is "suppressive" fire. The whole "rounds fired per enemy hit" is a misleading thing, and NOT AT ALL applicable to civilian use.

You can find "number of rounds fired per enemy hit/killed" numbers for WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and I'm sure now for Irag/Afghanistan...

I don't know the numbers for the "sandbox wars" but I do know that the number of rounds fired per hit has gone UP every war since WW I.

Now, it might be that the enemy is more crafty each new war, or it might mean we're not teaching (or requiring) our guys to shoot well, but I think it most likely is that as time progressed we equipped our troops with rifles that held more rounds and fired them faster. WWI = bolt action 5 shot magazine.
WWII = semi auto 8rnd (M1 Garand) and semi auto 15 rnd (M1 carbine)
Korea = WWII small arms
Vietnam - Select fire (semi and full auto) 20 and 30 round magazines (M16).

I don't see the lever gun as a huge disadvantage for a private citizen, and might just be a better choice, simply because not having 30rnd on tap with a fast mag change might just discourage shooting when its not absolutely needed.

The popular fantasy is defending your home mowing down the mob of mutant ninja biker zombies with a AK, or AR type weapon, but consider that shooting at such a mob attracts their attention where you might have otherwise gone unnoticed....
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Old September 24, 2020, 03:43 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by TBM900 View Post
Okay...
Give us such an example where a typical, law abiding civilian has "needed to use a high volume of fire" somewhere in the the U.S. in say the last 20 years.
Just two places right off the top of my head -
East LA
South Chicago

I like staying discreet if I need to be out and about in places that are questionable. I carry my Kel-Tec Sub 2k 40 S&W in a custom made laptop style case along with 4-5 spare magazines. I also have a small backpack that it fits in nicely.



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Old September 24, 2020, 09:29 PM   #44
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Does that sight remain offset when you unfold the Sub2K, or does it pivot over the bore?
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Old September 24, 2020, 10:13 PM   #45
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No,It flips up and locks in place over the top. You can co-witness the RDS with the sights on the rifle. It's very accurate for what it is,and I have no problem ringing steel at 100 yards with it.



I've also got a Ruger PC Carbine in 40 S&W that breaks down,but it isn't as convenient as the Kel-Tec.

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Old September 24, 2020, 10:47 PM   #46
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First avoid urban engagements to the degree possible.
But... If I had to be in an urban fight, I’d rather be out of their range, preferring targets at 1000-1200 yards where I’m unlikely to be spotted and not within there effective range (or dope) of most any urban yea-hoo’s.
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Old September 25, 2020, 03:46 AM   #47
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While I agree that a lever action carbine can be used quite effectively for defense, I really don't buy into the idea that they're more discrete. To non gun owners a gun is a gun whether it's an AR15 or a chicken nugget shaped like a gun.
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Old September 25, 2020, 04:20 AM   #48
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I guess I’m probably one of the younger guys (35) that absolutely loves lever guns. Cartridges may be more limited than those of modern AR cartridges but a lever gun doesn’t care if the round is running super or sub sonic. Now I do have AR’s but I tend to gravitate towards bolt guns and lever gun. Especially since I reload and don’t have to worry about chasing my brass nearly as much.
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Old September 25, 2020, 05:06 AM   #49
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We live in a quiet neighbourhood, as it is God's Country (Florida) I carry a Glock 19 4th, Gen, with TruGlo night sights every time I step out of my door, and as my Jeep sits in my Garage every time I am not in it, I drive off, because that is our mode of transport. A monitored alarm brings the Sheriffs in case of need.
If it ever becomes so dangerous, that a long gun is carried in our Jeep, my gun of choice would be my Steyr AUG, in 5.56. With the fixed 1.5 fixed scope.
Can not see that happening, and as we live in a wee two-story townhouse, and I can hit anything I can see from the Balcony and rear windows, maximum range 150M. That is liable to be where we would stay. Again a stretch. And the Glock 19 is an awesome weapon. If I am dressed, 16 rounds of 147g onboard, 17 round spare magazine on the belt.
In the 16 years we have lived here, I called the Police once, they were more concerned with my Glock being left in the bedroom (All 4 of the LEOs!) than there being a real intruder being present (there was not!) I knew two of them.

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Old September 27, 2020, 08:42 PM   #50
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I have nothing against having an AR platform rifle, or equivalent, as a defensive weapon. But, being a southpaw, I've never really warmed up to them. I had an M-16 (A-1) back when I was in the Army, and quite frankly I didn't like it. The safety is on the wrong side, and the one I had, had this irritating habit of ejecting hot brass right down my fatigue shirt. Phooey on that. So, I'm going the Lever Action route -- Marlin 336 in .30-30, backed up with a PT-92 to back me up if it really gets so bad that I'll need that sort of volume of fire. In the long run, if it gets completely out of hand and society completely breaks down, I figure that I'll find a suitable semi-auto on the battlefield. Barring that, the Lever Action backed up with an autoloading handgun should get me by.
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