Mystery Shotgun from Placencia

nrajeff · March 2, 2013, 02:20 AM

Hi guys, I hope this gun is okay to ask about. A good, longtime friend of mine inherited this shotgun from his late father, who owned it since childhood. This gun is the only one that my friend has from his father's collection, and he wants some info about it to help him decide what he should do with it. My research has been fruitless, so I need help in helping my friend. It appears to be an old 20 ga. (.680" I.D. at chamber) single-shot, single trigger, underlever-break-open with lockwork that at first glance looks like a percussion ignition, but is actually a hammer that falls onto a firing pin. It has an octagonal receiver that transitions into a round barrel about 9" forward of the breech face.Barrel length is about 31" from muzzle to breech face. Metal finish is a brown patina of some sort. The wood has some fairly nice (IMO) checkering around the wrist and on the forearm. I would guess overall condition as "fair" or a little less, since this gun appears to have been modified to fit a small shooter, and a few small parts don't seem original, and the lockwork is jammed so the hammer can't fall.

The only exterior markings I can see are on the top flat of the receiver:

"Garantizada Arenguren Y C - Placencia" followed by a maker's or proof mark that looks kind of like a rook (castle) chessman with a crown over it, followed by "PA" with a crown over it, and "20."

I removed the brass wedge that holds the forearm on, and the only marking I can find is "NA" stamped under the receiver.

All I have been able to find out is that Placencia is a town in Spain. Can anyone tell me anything about the maker of this shotgun, its age, and whether it's considered a common, cheap fireplace decoration or a collectible with value? If pics would help, I can probably upload some if that's allowed.

Thanks for any help you can give. -- Jeff

Sport45 · March 2, 2013, 04:01 AM

Pictures are always helpful and appreciated.

Does it look anything like this one? I'm afraid I can't read the description though and fdon't trust Google Translate to tell the real story. It is apparently being sold for a wall decoration and is described as a piston shotgun.

I'd keep it no matter what it was worth.

PetahW · March 2, 2013, 09:57 AM

"Garantizada" translates as "guaranteed (by)" the maker.

"Arenguren" is most likely "Aranguren" (SP) - either Pedro Aranguren or a descendent.

"Plancencia" is a location, Plancencia de las Armas, near Eibar in the Basque region of Spain on the French border - a gunmaking area for centuries, similar to the Gardone/Brescia area of Northern Italy.

You haven't described any smokeless proofmarks, nor the chamber length - which is most likely 2-1/2" (65mm),

So, I would NOT recommend firing ANY modern 20ga ammo in it, should you resolve the lock isues.
(Which is a pretty good reason the lock's been disabled, and to leave it so)

.

nrajeff · March 2, 2013, 01:32 PM

Thanks to both of you for your helpful info. There is no plan to shoot this thing. My friend wants to know if it has any collector value. If so, he'd know he should care for it as a valuable item. If it's only worth $50 as a decoration, then it wouldn't matter so much if it wasn't kept in a climate-controlled safe away from burglars, instead of above the fireplace and accessible to the kids to touch and hold.

nrajeff · March 2, 2013, 11:48 PM

Sport45, my friend's gun is similar to the one you linked. Unfortunately, I don't know Spanish, but I did learn that "shotgun" is "escopeta." Anyway, I spent hours looking at the militaria for sale on that site. I didn't realize that so many cool machineguns were on the market over there, and for a fraction of what they would cost over here, it seems. I think my next step with the shotgun will be to learn the history of guns that look like they were converted from percussion to a modern primed-cartridge system. If anyone out there has ever heard of such a thing, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

Quadpod88 · March 3, 2013, 12:50 AM

Quote:

I think my next step with the shotgun will be to learn the history of guns that look like they were converted from percussion to a modern primed-cartridge system. If anyone out there has ever heard of such a thing, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

It's probably not a conversion. I have a coach gun that uses the same system, it was very common and popular back in the day.

nrajeff · March 3, 2013, 01:44 PM

I was unaware of that. Thanks for the info.

March 2, 2013, 02:20 AM	#1
nrajeff Junior Member Join Date: February 14, 2012 Posts: 4	Mystery Shotgun from Placencia Hi guys, I hope this gun is okay to ask about. A good, longtime friend of mine inherited this shotgun from his late father, who owned it since childhood. This gun is the only one that my friend has from his father's collection, and he wants some info about it to help him decide what he should do with it. My research has been fruitless, so I need help in helping my friend. It appears to be an old 20 ga. (.680" I.D. at chamber) single-shot, single trigger, underlever-break-open with lockwork that at first glance looks like a percussion ignition, but is actually a hammer that falls onto a firing pin. It has an octagonal receiver that transitions into a round barrel about 9" forward of the breech face.Barrel length is about 31" from muzzle to breech face. Metal finish is a brown patina of some sort. The wood has some fairly nice (IMO) checkering around the wrist and on the forearm. I would guess overall condition as "fair" or a little less, since this gun appears to have been modified to fit a small shooter, and a few small parts don't seem original, and the lockwork is jammed so the hammer can't fall. The only exterior markings I can see are on the top flat of the receiver: "Garantizada Arenguren Y C - Placencia" followed by a maker's or proof mark that looks kind of like a rook (castle) chessman with a crown over it, followed by "PA" with a crown over it, and "20." I removed the brass wedge that holds the forearm on, and the only marking I can find is "NA" stamped under the receiver. All I have been able to find out is that Placencia is a town in Spain. Can anyone tell me anything about the maker of this shotgun, its age, and whether it's considered a common, cheap fireplace decoration or a collectible with value? If pics would help, I can probably upload some if that's allowed. Thanks for any help you can give. -- Jeff

March 2, 2013, 04:01 AM	#2
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	Pictures are always helpful and appreciated. Does it look anything like this one? I'm afraid I can't read the description though and fdon't trust Google Translate to tell the real story. It is apparently being sold for a wall decoration and is described as a piston shotgun. I'd keep it no matter what it was worth. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter. Last edited by Sport45; March 2, 2013 at 04:16 AM.

March 2, 2013, 09:57 AM	#3
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	"Garantizada" translates as "guaranteed (by)" the maker. "Arenguren" is most likely "Aranguren" (SP) - either Pedro Aranguren or a descendent. "Plancencia" is a location, Plancencia de las Armas, near Eibar in the Basque region of Spain on the French border - a gunmaking area for centuries, similar to the Gardone/Brescia area of Northern Italy. You haven't described any smokeless proofmarks, nor the chamber length - which is most likely 2-1/2" (65mm), So, I would NOT recommend firing ANY modern 20ga ammo in it, should you resolve the lock isues. (Which is a pretty good reason the lock's been disabled, and to leave it so) .

March 2, 2013, 01:32 PM	#4
nrajeff Junior Member Join Date: February 14, 2012 Posts: 4	Thanks to both of you for your helpful info. There is no plan to shoot this thing. My friend wants to know if it has any collector value. If so, he'd know he should care for it as a valuable item. If it's only worth $50 as a decoration, then it wouldn't matter so much if it wasn't kept in a climate-controlled safe away from burglars, instead of above the fireplace and accessible to the kids to touch and hold.

March 2, 2013, 11:48 PM	#5
nrajeff Junior Member Join Date: February 14, 2012 Posts: 4	Sport45, my friend's gun is similar to the one you linked. Unfortunately, I don't know Spanish, but I did learn that "shotgun" is "escopeta." Anyway, I spent hours looking at the militaria for sale on that site. I didn't realize that so many cool machineguns were on the market over there, and for a fraction of what they would cost over here, it seems. I think my next step with the shotgun will be to learn the history of guns that look like they were converted from percussion to a modern primed-cartridge system. If anyone out there has ever heard of such a thing, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

March 3, 2013, 01:44 PM	#7
nrajeff Junior Member Join Date: February 14, 2012 Posts: 4	I was unaware of that. Thanks for the info.