Ammo opinion

[tbird412s]

I have been shooting .270 Remington Core Lok ammo. Unfortunately after I am hitting whitetail at close range, 30-80 yds, and there is very little blood trail. I finally notice blood after trailing for 50 yards. Is ammo the reason why, am I too close, or is it all about shot placement? The last two both had heart damage.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Random chance. Too many variables to guarantee a good blood trail. My uncle shot a deer this season with a 7mm-08 using Core-Lokts. The range was I believe around 40 yards. It took like 3 steps. No exit, no blood "trail" for the 10 feet that it went.

[EstillEngineer#59]

i killed a doe at about 50 yards with 30-06 core lokt. it went in behind her left front shoulder and came out the other side leaving quite a large exit wound and hitting both lungs and dropped her. anyway the point is there was very little blood on the ground and ive been wondering why

[ZeroJunk]

It is not at all unusual for a deer shot through both lungs to run 50 or even 100 yards. I watched a nice buck shot in the heart with a 7 Rem mag and Sierra 140 grain spitzer run 60 yards. It is not unusual to not have a big blood trail until the lungs fill up to where the hole is. You could move the point of impact 1/2 inch either way, hit a rib square causing the bullet to expand instantly and body slam the deer with the same ammo.
If you change bullets every time a particular shot doesn't work perfectly, you will be changing all the time.

[EstillEngineer#59]

well i dont plan on changing ammo both deer ive killed with core lokt never took another step

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by ZeroJunk

You could move the point of impact 1/2 inch either way, hit a rib square causing the bullet to expand instantly and body slam the deer with the same ammo. If you change bullets every time a particular shot doesn't work perfectly, you will be changing all the time.

That's a fact. I used a 12ga with Winchester Super-X slugs for many years. I had deer of every size and at distances from 15 to 100 yards do every thing from DRT to run 150 yards and leave blood trails from nonexistent to 15 feet wide. Some of the ones that ran the farthest left the most obvious blood trails and some of them that went shorter distances took over an hour to find due to lack of blood. I shot a doe one day from about 25 feet or so, the slug went just above the heart and cleanly severed the aorta. That deer went the farthest of any deer that I've ever shot and the blood trail was OBSCENE. I mean, it was 15 feet wide and splattered on the sides of trees 4 feet up. Last year I shot a 4-point at about 40 yards and it went about that same distance before dropping. Almost the same hit as that doe, but virtually no blood to speak of until it dropped.

[Big Bill]

Try some Federal Fusion and see what you think.

[James R. Burke]

Funny things can happen when you hit a deer. Sometimes it even might look like a miss. Sometimes there is blood all over the place. Last year my wife shot a buck double lung with a .243. No blood she thought for sure she flat out missed it. I new how good she can shoot, and talked to her about how she aimed, and were on the deer. Went back to were she shot at it and started doing the old circle routine. I was about to give up and then I seen the first spot of blood. Following it there was more and more, finally dead deer. Went about 35 yards. If she would have been watching just alittle closer she would have seen it fall over. The bullet was a Nosler Partition 100 grain, and it done a complete pass thru. I had a combo lic this year in the U.P. of Mich if you buy that one needs three points min on one side and the other four points min on one side. The first buck I shot was like moving along pretty good but not quite running I hit him in the base of the neck, thru the heart, and out the other shoulder. Went to were I hit him seen alittle blood then mass amounts both sides, went about 20 yards. It was a nice seven. The second one was real big body wise turned out to be a eight, and went 186. I looked up and seen him in a clump of trees. When he looked up I knew he had the four on one side but all I could see was the neck and head. He was way out there. So I figued I would try the neck straight on. Deer went down so fast almost did not see it. Went pretty close to right down the spine. 30-06 165 grain Nosler Partition, and just that one trickle of blood. Some weird things can happen when you hit a deer. Thats why I keep repeating the basic things to my wife who just got into it. So when I do shoot at anything I do a real good look, you just never know what might happen. If it is a hard one to find blood I start by doing circles about were impack might have happened, then keep making the circles bigger and looking. Takes me a long time to give it up. I seen it happen a few times with some pretty good hunters. About a day or two later you see crows, ravens, etc. Going in and out of a spot. Check it out and dead deer, but it does happen. Proud of the wife she took two shots last year, and dropped them both. What made me even prouder was she let a few real nice bucks walk away because she had her doubts about getting a good shot placement. Sorry I was in and out of the topic so much trying to get it all out. But it probably was not the ammo, just one of those things that happen. It is nice to try differnt stuff to see how it works. I reload so I am always trying new things or going with the advice on this forum. Most my questions were answered just by reading prior posts, and or asking. Some great folks on here who I consider experts without a doubt.

[bamaranger]

The Rem core-locks are a very traditional, proven deer bullet and all most of us need for "average" whitetails. The .270 is plenty of rifle for deer, with near any bullet commonly available.

Wounds and blood trails are very variable, as is the dx a deer can cover after being hit. The only fixed reaction I can see is that the closer the wound is to
the spine/neck, the more of a chance there is for the deer to go down on the spot, due to, I suspect, damage or shock to the spinal cord itself.

Also, the lower a wound is on the chest, the better blood trail there seems to be, as gravity lets the blood drain from the wound.

I've not counted, but would estimate the only 25% or so of my rifle killed deer were DRT. This is w/ varying calibers and bullet weights. The others have run varying distances, one, heart shot w/ a .270-130, near 100 yds.

Lots of variables......as long as your recovering your deer, not to worry.

[bamaranger]

Santa brought me some great gifts, including a new Summit "open shot" climbing tree stand.

After a practice session or two at home, I took my new pride and joy on a hunt, and was terribly frustrated. The first tree, I could not get up hardly at all.
I chose a smaller dia tree nearby, and after much fuss, managed to get up high enough to hunt, but not as high as I'd like.

I have climbed a zillion trees w/ my first generation Summit climber, so I've got lots of experience in climbing. The "Open Shot" looked to be a good bowhunter stand. Light, w/ no bar to impede shooting a bow. The reviews posted by customers looked good. Danged if Santa didn't bring one. But I'm pretty disappointed right now.

The prob seems to b that the more cable I let out to get around a tree, the more limber the cable becomes, and the less "bite" I get for each "updown" motion in climbing. If BAss Pro will do it, I'll likely return the thing.

Anxious for any comments or experiences w/ the Summit Open Shot.

[bamaranger]

Sorry, I meant the above for a new thread

[youp]

I killed a buck one year that I hit a little high and a little far back. guess I am not one to blat a deer to make it stop and pose. I trailed it for several hundred yards and backed off for an hour. He had made it into an area full of low evergreens. I picked up the trail and just a few yards after I quit the blood trail started to become heavier. A few yards later there he was. All that blood just stayed in the body cavity.

[cole k]

I guess I'm lucky. Of the two dozen or so deer I've shot with 130 gr bullets (CoreLokts, PowerPoints, Hornady SP's and BT's, and Partitions) most have not staggered more than a few yards. One did make it about 50 yards.

I have friend that uses 150 gr CoreLokts and he is always having to track his deer 50 to 100 yards and sometimes more..

[andrew66]

i think its shot placement. when i shoot a deer, i like to get a bit of the shoulder. not too much meat there anyways. and they always seem to go down pretty quickly. one of the first deer i shot with a rifle, was with a 30-06 and 180gr power points. the deer dropped, and no blood and couldnt find the entrance or exit wound til we gutted it. the hide kind of "sealed" the wound so it bled out internally. I also believe that with the heavy coats in winter, the hair mops up some of the blood

[FrankenMauser]

I didn't see anyone else bring up the most important point, here.

You're too close for a .270 to allow proper expansion of the Core-Lokt. Instead of expanding, it is fragmenting.

There are four easy solutions:
1. Head shots.
2. Use a tougher bullet.
3. Take longer shots.
4. Use a different cartridge (and rifle).


The Core-Lokt is a great bullet; but it's not designed for 3,000+ fps impacts, especially when striking bone. The .277" 130gr and 150gr Core-Lokts do best from 1,800 to 2,500 fps. (2500fps is flirting with partial fragmentation.)

[precision_shooter]

I shot a deer in Dec. with my .308 using Hornady 150gr. SST at about 85 yards and there was NO blood trail. This was a double lung shot. He only made it about 30 yards before he dropped but where he ran to and dropped was thick woods and tall grass. Due to that it still took us about 20 min. to find him due to lack of blood trail and searching for blood instead of just looking for the deer.

[FrankenMauser]

.308 using Hornady 150gr. SST

Same deal: too much velocity. Except, this instance involves a bullet actually designed to expand quickly. (Super Shock Tip ... think Nosler Ballistic Tip)

If close shots are the norm, for a hunter. He or she needs to select a tougher bullet or different cartridge, that will perform accordingly.

If a hunter wants a blood trail, he needs penetration; not expansion.

[hometheaterman]

I saw someone said try some Federal Fusions. I second that. I really like them. Another bullet I like is the Federal Power Shok soft points. I'm not a fan of much anything Remington anymore. I don't use their Core Lokts just because they didn't shoot well in my gun. Not sure what they would do on deer.

[GeauxTide]

Standard bullets blow up at impact velocities above 2800fps. Premium bullets or slower cartridge is the choice.

[Todd1700]

Standard bullets blow up at impact velocities above 2800fps

Well that is not an absolute right there. Core/jacket separation can occur at high velocities which could prevent an exit wound. But I didn't see anywhere in the original post that the guy said there was no exit wound.

[tbird412s]

There was an exit wound on both animals. What cartridge would you recommend.

[precision_shooter]

Mine had an exit wound as well but no blood escaped the entrance or the exit wound while animal was running off. While dragging animal and once hung up for field dressing the blood poured out of both holes but nothing could be seen while tracking. I chalk it up to just a freak occurrence since this is the only time an animal I've shot did not produce a blood trail.

[Todd1700]

There was an exit wound on both animals. What cartridge would you recommend.

The problem that one often encounters is that when you shoot a deer through the lungs the blood will mostly pour into the internal lung cavity until it fills it to the point of reaching the lowest hole and/or the animal starts blowing it out his nose. This doesn't take too long but a deer can cover a good bit of ground in just a few seconds. And some deer actually hit the ground and die before the blood starts to pour out very good. My advice for better blood trails would be to hit them a little lower instead of changing bullets.

That said however I always make a note to keep my eye on the deer and mentally mark the last spot I see it as it runs off. Then I start tracking from that point. This usually allows you to skip the first 30 or 40 yards of his path where the blood maybe sparce to nonexistent anyway.

Blood trails are a weird quirky thing and I don't think that any bullet can insure you a good one every time.

Example: I shot a doe once at 18 yards with a 4 blade Muzzy broadhead. I was 25 feet up a tree and hit her tight behind the shoulder. The arrow exited low on the off side just behind that shoulder and right at her heart. Four razor sharp blades right through the heart and perfect placement for a horrific blood trail right? She ran 70 yards and I never found one drop of blood between where my arrow was buried in the ground and the spot where she fell. Perhaps a piece of fat or something clogged the exit hole. Who knows? Sometimes there is just no rhyme or reason for such things.

[James R. Burke]

There are many good calibers for deer. I do believe highly in bullet placement or leave them walk. Almost every year we will let a few bucks walk because of placement. Myself and the people I hunt with it drops right on the spot 99.9% of the time. The other .1% does not go very far, but it can and does happen. The biggest mistake I see hunters make, and even the ones that been doing it for years, is find a little blood and start pushing the deer, till the blood stops. We always of course take a look if you do not see it go down, and look around a bit then thats it. Time wise it depends what time of day it is. Two hours is a good time two wait seems like forever, but most the time within that 100 yard area you will find that deer dead. If you dont after looking real good, and I do mean looking hard, your probably not going to fine it.

[Fat White Boy]

I use a Model 70 in .270 for pigs. I use CoreLokt 130gr ammo. It usually goes right through. I hit one sow at 225 yards. It ran about 200 yards. I went after it, when I found it, it turned and faced me down. I was getting ready to shoot again when it collapsed. When I got up to it, all that was left inside the body cavity was the heart and part of a lung. Tough pig, but she tasted great...