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Old February 19, 2017, 08:43 PM   #1
Expatmedic
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Progressive versus Manual...

In the eyes of a few people I am "anal" and "uptight" about my reloading practices.

I hand prime, hand trim, Rockchucker press each projectile, hand chamfer and debur, powder is measured once on an RCBS electronic scale then once on a 5-0-5 scale. No, not in that order.

Right now, I am loading for 6.5mm Creedmoor, for shots out to 1k.

But...

I plan on loading for pistol soon.

I see no need to change at this point, for no other reason than I can "feel" and/or "hear" what is going on with the components.

Anyone else in the same boat?

Since this is one of my first posts, it is posted with a bit of humor.
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Old February 19, 2017, 09:19 PM   #2
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Accuracy is the reason for being "uptight" about reloading for a rifle. With each little step we hope to gain a fraction of a MOA.
If your 6.5 only shot 3 MOA groups you would get rid of it but for a handgun 3 MOA would be very accurate.
To get accuracy from a handgun time spent shooting, perfecting trigger pull, sight picture, etc. will produce far better results than nit picking while reloading.
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Old February 19, 2017, 09:42 PM   #3
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I reload to put holes in cardboard at 5-200 yards at the moment, so no, not nearly that anal, dont want to be until I get into stretching the legs of some riffle rounds. But to each, their own.
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Old February 19, 2017, 09:53 PM   #4
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There is nothing that says you cannot use a progressive and a single stage press, just install the die you wish to use and leave the other spots open.
When I load pistol rounds I the press as a progressive, when I load rifle, I will cap and resize and trim in one session, then prime and load in another. I do not use the progressive powder measure when doing rifle load, I use a electronic powder dispenser.

I have a Hornady L-N-L.
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Old February 19, 2017, 09:54 PM   #5
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That's what I like about the 550b. Use it like a single stage, progressive or something in between. Use it as a priming tool. It's really quite flexible.
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Old February 19, 2017, 10:03 PM   #6
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Thanks for the feedback. I am assuming a 550B is a progressive? I know not one single thing about progressive systems.

Right now I am consistently seeing SD's of 5 FPS. Can I expect the same with a progressive?
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Old February 19, 2017, 10:17 PM   #7
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Dillon 550B is a manually indexing progressive. Kind of a hybrid.

It can make match quality ammo.
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Old February 19, 2017, 10:25 PM   #8
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Thanks turtlehead. Now, let me go find a thread about annealing. Lol
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Old February 19, 2017, 10:33 PM   #9
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Yes and no about the 550. It can be used as a progressive but you have to index manually after each pull of the handle. It doesn't advance automatically.

When I first started reloading I was a bit "anal" about not blowing myself up. After I got used to the basics I was anal about the components I was using, then the preparation of the components, then about getting one hole five shot groups. I finally got to the point where I wanted to make a lot of cartridges so I got a 550. I was anal about getting it set up just right and then I was pulling each cartridge to make sure it was primed properly, and then to check the powder level and then the seated length of the bullet. I realized it was taking more time and causing more stress with the 550 than it was with my Rock Chucker. I sold the 550 cheap and went back to doing it the way that made me comfortable. I never did get five bullets through one hole and finally figured out what I was doing that made no difference and stopped doing that and just did what made my ammo as good as I needed. I did get quite a few groups where there was no paper left between the five shots in a group but never the way I wanted to see it. Now I am relaxed when I am reloading and trying to stay relaxed when I shoot. Maybe by the time I reach 80 I will be relaxed doing it all.
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Old February 19, 2017, 10:50 PM   #10
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Shootist, I'm happy with those types of 5 shot groups as the only person I ever compete with is myself.

I make it a point to never let any stress into my shooting hobby. Just want it to be fun.
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Old February 19, 2017, 11:06 PM   #11
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You have to be a 'Gadget' guy for a progressive press to crank out really high quality rounds...
If you aren't mechanically inclined it can be a real challenge to get a lot of the progressive presses working correctly,
And some it won't matter how mechanically inclined you are, they just don't work worth a crap no matter what...

I actually aim... so I don't burn through ammo like a lot of people, even when speed shooting.
I've stopped going to public ranges most times, built my own at home.
Can't take those guys dumping an entire magazine at every target and hitting nothing.
You don't get points for how many brass you have in the air at any given time!

The 'Odd' calibers, the hyper accurate loads all still get done on a manual press.
It's too hard/expensive to get a progressive set up for my oddball calibers I don't shoot a lot,
And the hyper accurate calibers I'm pretty fussy about, so they get hand loaded.

The 9mm/45ACP practice ammo, the .223 practice ammo gets cranked out on a progressive.

It's up to you, for me and AR practice ammo and semi auto handguns, I thought I'd hate a progressive, but I don't, it's actually pretty great to crank out weeks worth of ammo in the same time it used to take for one range day.
I just wish I hadn't wasted time/money on progressives like Lee Load Master before I got a Dillon.
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Old February 19, 2017, 11:07 PM   #12
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Same here, I compete with myself and not at match's. It's just for fun. For me, the reloading process is relaxing, especially the drudge work of case prep, but I tune out most things and I am in my quiet little zone.

I am very much a methodical, slow-paced person. I do brass prep first then come back another day for priming and so on and so forth.
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Old February 19, 2017, 11:14 PM   #13
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^^^ me too! Reloading is one of the most relaxing things I do.
Even relaxing I can turn out more than I shoot in a day at the range.
I joined the range to meet people when I moved here and now I am an RSO and a member of the board. I show up at the range work days and sometime I work just because I see things that need it. I never actively compete with others - even at silhouette matches but I still stress out when I am not doing me best.

I am sometimes so hard on myself I am forced to take a time out.
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Old February 19, 2017, 11:28 PM   #14
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A competitive shooter named Lester Bruno has a shop near Ben Avery range where I often shoot. I bring targets to show him and he says "Well, if that makes you happy..."

It does. I refuse to fall victim to the sickness.
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Old February 19, 2017, 11:41 PM   #15
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I have .243 brass sitting in hot, soapy water to get the case lube off.

That's how bad it is.
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Old February 20, 2017, 12:03 AM   #16
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The 550C would be a great choice for a progressive press. But having both a progressive press plus a single stage is the way to go.
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Old February 20, 2017, 12:08 AM   #17
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Pistol ammo volume

It sound like you have OCD, like 90% of Benchrest shooters. And that's a good thing for that game.

Typically when shooting handgun, I shoot 150 rounds. Loading this amount of ammo in BR method is too slow.

I have used a Lee Turret press for the last 25 years. It can load up to 200 rounds an hour. It is very safe to use, as the head and powder thrower rotate with every pull of the handle. The ammo it produces is very accurate.
Also it is not expensive.
I have never really had the urge to upgrade to a Dillon or any other progressive press. Even if I could load 600 rounds an hour, I can't afford to shoot 600 rounds in a session !!
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Old February 20, 2017, 05:21 AM   #18
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Expatmedic, You haven't fallen all the way yet. This is from another site and my seater dies.

https://forum.nosler.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11614

Turners

https://forum.nosler.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11620
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Old February 20, 2017, 07:45 AM   #19
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I can turn out accurate ammunition with both single stage and progressive presses.

Dies make a bigger difference than the press. I can put crummy dies in a Co-ax and good ones in a progressive and the progressive press with produce a round with less run out.

If you have the ability to measure the finished product and tests them you too can figure out if all the extra time you spend is wasted or not. Some people "feel" that spending hours making a few rounds somehow makes them better and if that helps their mental management in competition, it might actually be worthwhile, even if it really is no more accurate.
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Old February 20, 2017, 11:42 AM   #20
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I should have been a bit more clear about "feeling" and "hearing". I can close my eyes and tell by sound and resistance when a case has been properly trimmed. I can feel when neck tension is not right when seating projectiles. So, I wonder if I can do the same with a progressive system.


More OCD I measure my trimmed cases with calipers, the drop it into a Wilson case gage.
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Old February 20, 2017, 01:47 PM   #21
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I don't own a progressive press (they don't fit my lifestyle), but on a couple of occasions have used one. A friend was shooting 45 ACP in competition and I helped him out operating his Dillon, auto-everything press. I felt so "disconnected" from reloading I could have been pulling the handle on a slot machine (and less fun). I like reloading and all the stuff that goes with it and a progressive set up removes most of the fun and satisfaction.

I am not anti-progressive, as they have their place, it's just not for me...
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Old February 20, 2017, 02:30 PM   #22
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Speed when loading for pistol on a single stage or manual press is a matter of technique. Primarily involving the use of both hands. You get all your cases to the point they only need powder and bullet and do that when you need 'em.
Hot soapy water may or may not get the petroleum based lube off. A lightly dampened with regular solvent rag does every time in far mess time and without using the oven.
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Old February 20, 2017, 03:04 PM   #23
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I am using RCBS case lube but I need to check to see if it Petroleum based, thanks for the reminder. As to drying, air dry only. No need to bake and ruin cases, but I am looking at an Annealeze as I want to make my Norma brass last, and do it right.
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Old February 20, 2017, 03:04 PM   #24
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I'm actually thinking of investing in a progressive for my .223 and pistol loads...all the long rifle rounds will still be single stage. I love reloading and agree that the progressive press kinda takes the fun out of it for me. I have used a friends to help him and I, too, find the whole process of single stage quite relaxing and love the quietness of the workshop!
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Old February 20, 2017, 03:24 PM   #25
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Expatmedic,

I'm a rather persnickity loader myself. I have a Dillon BL 550 http://www.dillonprecision.com/bl-55...8_1_25792.html and it suits my load style for handgun cartridges perfectly.

For me, brass prep and actual loading are two discrete steps that I will never merge. After the brass is prepped, they then get a ss pin tumble for a nice shiny cleaning before I begin the load process.

Furthermore, I want to hand-prime my brass and I want to hand charge my cases in a loading block - where I can view the charge levels before placing a bullet atop.

So my Dillon progressive is either set up for brass reconditioning, or for actual loading. Yes, I have separate toolheads for each. So when I'm reconditioning, the resize/decap die and the flair die is in place - both steps are done with one press stroke. I don't bother with locator pins with this step - I take the case out at station 2 after it's been flaired.

After ss pin cleaning, the brass is then primed by hand, and placed in a loading block- where they are then charged by hand using an RCBS Uniflow. After checking the powder charge level, I place a bullet atop and take them to the press for loading. The first die seats. The second die taper crimps. The third die roll crimps (if applicable).

This process works for me. So in my world, I don't need anything more than three stations - which is why I got the 550 (it's a 4-station press; I just never use station #4).

I recently started loading rifle (223 Rem) ammo - after 32 years of only loading for handgun. All my rifle loading is done on my single stage press. So far, at least, I see no reason to go progressive with rifle ammo.
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