Gatling Guns

TEC9 · December 26, 1999, 06:51 PM

Anyone have a breakdown on the different types of "rotating barrel" guns.

Also, what is the type of Gun Jesse "the mayor" Ventura used in Commando???

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Go get me my gun, it's the one that says "Bad MOTHERF****R"

**4V50 Gary** · December 26, 1999, 10:09 PM

I believe the one used in the movies is the GE XM214 Microgun in 5.56 Nato. A six barrel gun, it's appropriately nicknamed the, "Six-Pax". The Six-Pax has been mounted on vehicles, aircraft and riverine boats (I had a friend who actually used one and it quiets ambushes muy pronto).

Per George Chinn (Vol 5, The Machine Gun), the basic gun weights 25.5 lbs, drive motor 7.5 lbs, feeder 3 lbs. When loaded with 1,000 rounds of .223, it weighs 85 lbs. It is 27 inches long and has a variable feed rate of fixed rates of fire from 400 to 10,000 SPM (1000, 6,000, 10,000 spm are available). It requires .75 HP for 2000 spm (shots per minute), 1.5 HP at 6K spm, and 3.2 HP at 10k spm. Barrel life is 100K rounds.

Every American should have one.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

James K · December 26, 1999, 10:56 PM

Once at an ADPA meeting I tried to talk a GE rep into putting a hand crank on it and selling it through the home appliances division. Unfortunately, no luck.

Jim

**4V50 Gary** · December 27, 1999, 12:06 AM

Jim, ROTFLMAO. Thanks for trying.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

David Hineline · December 27, 1999, 12:24 AM

Jessie's .223 mini-gun is actually for sale to qualified individuals. Comes with back pack battery set up. One set of blanked barrels one set of live barrels.

Dan Shea has this weapon for sale $125,000
Also has Rambo's M-60

Hard Ball · December 27, 1999, 02:09 PM

Just as an intreesting historical point Custer could have had eight .45-70 Gatling guns at the lLttle Big Horn. He didn't like Gatlings and so he didn't take them. History would be different if he had.

Glenn E. Meyer · December 27, 1999, 03:26 PM

Yep, hardball - the Native American warriors
would have had 8 Gatling guns to play with.

James K · December 27, 1999, 04:54 PM

Hi, guys,

Poor old George Armstrong Custer has taken a lot of heat on the Gatling business, but I wonder how many of the critics have 1) seen a Gatling of the period and 2) seen the type of terrain involved.

Gatlings were fairly effective in defense or against massed troops, but not against single targets or a spread out enemy. They were just too awkward to be used to engage individual targets. Also, there was no such thing as firing while moving with a Gatling; the gunners had to stop, unhitch the team, unlimber the gun, get the magazines out of the ready boxes, insert the magazines, etc. When you read about those Gatlings, don't think M60, think 10-pounder Parrott; you will have the right idea for size and use.

Jim

P.S. Forget the movies - many of their "Gatlings" are fakes and the script writer decides how many enemies drop "dead".

JEK

Oleg Volk · December 31, 1999, 12:03 AM

Having seen the traverse mechanism on Gatlings, I can see why they did not become popular for direct support.

OTOH, the Boers did have a neat device called a "pom-pom"....a 37mm Maxim machine gun! That puppy would outrange most anything the Brits could being up in a hurry and was quite effective on flat terrain (fairly flat trajectory). Anyone knows anything about those?

BTW, which laws make hopper feeders for mechanical Gatlings illegal?

KAC556 · January 2, 2000, 11:01 AM

I don't recall "The Body," or a Minigun being in the movie Commando. Could you be referring to Preditor?

STLRN · January 2, 2000, 02:29 PM

You Jim, are correct the gatlings and just about every weapon of its ilk were used more like artillery than machine guns of today. But I am not sure of standard tactical missions such as DS, R, GS and GSR would have applied since the weapons were organic to the manuever (supported) unit and not part of another organization providing support.

Glenn E. Meyer · January 2, 2000, 03:49 PM

I was reading the latest Small Arms Review
in Barnes and Noble and they have an ad for
the Jesse/Ah-Nuld minigun. Think I will have to wait for Y3K and my cyborg body before
I snatch it up. Also, the price was a touch out of my ball park.

Gun List or SGN just out had an article on Custer and the firearms. His opinion was that it was debateable if the Gatlings would have helped. Said the black powder fouling made them prone to jamming among other problems.

James K · January 2, 2000, 05:37 PM

Hi, STLRN,

That was the problem. The guns were the size and nearly the weight of cannon, but were assigned to maneuver units. Too short range for the support role and too big for maneuver, they were not successful in either and essentially were failures in the West.

Now, as part of a fortress defense against a conventional army, they would have been effective. As part of a cavalry unit fighting Indians, they were about useless, something that GAC recognized.

Jim

Glenn E. Meyer · January 2, 2000, 09:51 PM

The 45-70 was a big round generating a big gun. I wonder why no one considered a smaller
little guy in 45 Colt or Schofeld? It would
have been the SMG or M-60 of its time.

It might have been more portable.

REFLEX · January 4, 2000, 01:05 PM

KAC556, my fault everyone. I meant "preadator".

Ruger guy · January 9, 2000, 08:20 AM

There is an advertisement in home shop machinist magazine for the plans to build your own miniature 22 caliber gatling gun. I've been meaning to send for them. Sounds pretty cool to me. But where would you be able to play with it? I don't own a big piece of property..... yet. I suppose I could mount on the balcony of my condo for a good defensive weapon against pesty complaining neighbors.

Anyway, if anyone is intersted let me know and I'll dig it out.

Squirrel_Bait · January 9, 2000, 07:19 PM

Another problem with Big Horny Custer's gatling guns (and rifles) was the ammo. The shells of the cartridges were made from coils instead of tubing because it was cheaper to do so. As a result, the case heads were often ripped off during extraction. That is why they found so many broken knives at the last stand from soldiers trying to remove broken shells from their weapons.

James K · January 9, 2000, 11:35 PM

Hi, Squirrel Bait,

In that time period, ammunition makers had not yet learned how to draw solid head brass cartridges, and that meant some troubles for combat troops.

The U.S. never used the type of wrapped cartridges you are thinking of, although the British did in their Martinis (the guns - they used olives in the other Martinis). The original Boxer cartridges were of the coil type.

The U.S. cartridges were drawn copper, like a big .22 rimfire, but with an inside primer added (there were several different types). Copper won't contract after expanding like brass does, and the empties stuck in the chambers, with the extractor tearing through the thin copper rims. Depending on which book you read, the problem was either common or very rare.

Jim

Squirrel_Bait · January 10, 2000, 10:53 PM

Dang! Somebody lied to me! Thanks Jim for the correction.

kraMrD · January 12, 2000, 12:14 PM

Enjoy,

Mark

James K · January 12, 2000, 02:22 PM

Hi, Mark,

I would really enjoy shooting those guns. You are buying the ammo, I presume.

Jim

kraMrD · January 12, 2000, 02:35 PM

I can only afford the ammo for these types of weapons when playing QUAKE... you just find it laying all over the place

M.

Edmund Rowe · January 12, 2000, 08:42 PM

4V50 Gary:

Did your buddy use the 5.56 minigun or the 7.62 minigun on those river patrols? I was under the impression that few if any militarys ever bought the 5.56 minigun.

Of course, the river rats in the Mekong Delta no doubt got most anything that worked that they could midnight requisition I'm sure!

The gun on "Predator" is a Stembridge gun rental special. I don't think any hand-held gun like that was ever deployed. What I can't figure out watching the movie is where did they hide the extension cord?

Edmund

Al Thompson · January 13, 2000, 09:21 PM

I too have a friend with pictures of his 7.62 Mini-Gun on his PBR. The friend is a retired CW4 (Navy) and was happy about the way they broke ambushs but said that he had to have a Conex full of barrels. His thoughts are the the weapon was designed for aircraft and just got too hot on a boat.

Giz

Edmund Rowe · January 14, 2000, 08:16 PM

Another comment:

Is that the triple-minigun that flipped over and killed the owner's daughter at Knob Creek a few years ago? I heard it fractured his little girl's skull. Fortunately it didn't flip over and spray uprange on full auto IIRC.

Edmund

December 26, 1999, 06:51 PM	#1
TEC9 Junior member Join Date: December 16, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 56	Anyone have a breakdown on the different types of "rotating barrel" guns. Also, what is the type of Gun Jesse "the mayor" Ventura used in Commando??? ------------------ *Go get me my gun, it's the one that says "Bad MOTHERFR"*

December 26, 1999, 10:09 PM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	I believe the one used in the movies is the GE XM214 Microgun in 5.56 Nato. A six barrel gun, it's appropriately nicknamed the, "Six-Pax". The Six-Pax has been mounted on vehicles, aircraft and riverine boats (I had a friend who actually used one and it quiets ambushes muy pronto). Per George Chinn (Vol 5, The Machine Gun), the basic gun weights 25.5 lbs, drive motor 7.5 lbs, feeder 3 lbs. When loaded with 1,000 rounds of .223, it weighs 85 lbs. It is 27 inches long and has a variable feed rate of fixed rates of fire from 400 to 10,000 SPM (1000, 6,000, 10,000 spm are available). It requires .75 HP for 2000 spm (shots per minute), 1.5 HP at 6K spm, and 3.2 HP at 10k spm. Barrel life is 100K rounds. Every American should have one. ------------------ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

December 26, 1999, 10:56 PM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Once at an ADPA meeting I tried to talk a GE rep into putting a hand crank on it and selling it through the home appliances division. Unfortunately, no luck. Jim

December 27, 1999, 12:06 AM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	Jim, ROTFLMAO. Thanks for trying. ------------------ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

December 27, 1999, 12:24 AM	#5
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	Jessie's .223 mini-gun is actually for sale to qualified individuals. Comes with back pack battery set up. One set of blanked barrels one set of live barrels. Dan Shea has this weapon for sale $125,000 Also has Rambo's M-60

December 27, 1999, 02:09 PM	#6
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	Just as an intreesting historical point Custer could have had eight .45-70 Gatling guns at the lLttle Big Horn. He didn't like Gatlings and so he didn't take them. History would be different if he had.

December 27, 1999, 03:26 PM	#7
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Yep, hardball - the Native American warriors would have had 8 Gatling guns to play with.

December 27, 1999, 04:54 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, guys, Poor old George Armstrong Custer has taken a lot of heat on the Gatling business, but I wonder how many of the critics have 1) seen a Gatling of the period and 2) seen the type of terrain involved. Gatlings were fairly effective in defense or against massed troops, but not against single targets or a spread out enemy. They were just too awkward to be used to engage individual targets. Also, there was no such thing as firing while moving with a Gatling; the gunners had to stop, unhitch the team, unlimber the gun, get the magazines out of the ready boxes, insert the magazines, etc. When you read about those Gatlings, don't think M60, think 10-pounder Parrott; you will have the right idea for size and use. Jim P.S. Forget the movies - many of their "Gatlings" are fakes and the script writer decides how many enemies drop "dead". JEK

December 31, 1999, 12:03 AM	#9
Oleg Volk Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 7,022	Having seen the traverse mechanism on Gatlings, I can see why they did not become popular for direct support. OTOH, the Boers did have a neat device called a "pom-pom"....a 37mm Maxim machine gun! That puppy would outrange most anything the Brits could being up in a hurry and was quite effective on flat terrain (fairly flat trajectory). Anyone knows anything about those? BTW, which laws make hopper feeders for mechanical Gatlings illegal?

January 2, 2000, 11:01 AM	#10
KAC556 Member Join Date: December 14, 1999 Posts: 99	I don't recall "The Body," or a Minigun being in the movie Commando. Could you be referring to Preditor?

January 2, 2000, 02:29 PM	#11
STLRN Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 1,163	You Jim, are correct the gatlings and just about every weapon of its ilk were used more like artillery than machine guns of today. But I am not sure of standard tactical missions such as DS, R, GS and GSR would have applied since the weapons were organic to the manuever (supported) unit and not part of another organization providing support.

January 2, 2000, 03:49 PM	#12
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	I was reading the latest Small Arms Review in Barnes and Noble and they have an ad for the Jesse/Ah-Nuld minigun. Think I will have to wait for Y3K and my cyborg body before I snatch it up. Also, the price was a touch out of my ball park. Gun List or SGN just out had an article on Custer and the firearms. His opinion was that it was debateable if the Gatlings would have helped. Said the black powder fouling made them prone to jamming among other problems.

January 2, 2000, 05:37 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, STLRN, That was the problem. The guns were the size and nearly the weight of cannon, but were assigned to maneuver units. Too short range for the support role and too big for maneuver, they were not successful in either and essentially were failures in the West. Now, as part of a fortress defense against a conventional army, they would have been effective. As part of a cavalry unit fighting Indians, they were about useless, something that GAC recognized. Jim

January 2, 2000, 09:51 PM	#14
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	The 45-70 was a big round generating a big gun. I wonder why no one considered a smaller little guy in 45 Colt or Schofeld? It would have been the SMG or M-60 of its time. It might have been more portable.

January 4, 2000, 01:05 PM	#15
REFLEX Member Join Date: December 30, 1999 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 38	KAC556, my fault everyone. I meant "preadator".

January 9, 2000, 08:20 AM	#16
Ruger guy Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Posts: 112	There is an advertisement in home shop machinist magazine for the plans to build your own miniature 22 caliber gatling gun. I've been meaning to send for them. Sounds pretty cool to me. But where would you be able to play with it? I don't own a big piece of property..... yet. I suppose I could mount on the balcony of my condo for a good defensive weapon against pesty complaining neighbors. Anyway, if anyone is intersted let me know and I'll dig it out.

January 9, 2000, 07:19 PM	#17
Squirrel_Bait Member Join Date: December 30, 1999 Location: La Puente, CA, USA Posts: 65	Another problem with Big Horny Custer's gatling guns (and rifles) was the ammo. The shells of the cartridges were made from coils instead of tubing because it was cheaper to do so. As a result, the case heads were often ripped off during extraction. That is why they found so many broken knives at the last stand from soldiers trying to remove broken shells from their weapons.

January 9, 2000, 11:35 PM	#18
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Squirrel Bait, In that time period, ammunition makers had not yet learned how to draw solid head brass cartridges, and that meant some troubles for combat troops. The U.S. never used the type of wrapped cartridges you are thinking of, although the British did in their Martinis (the guns - they used olives in the other Martinis). The original Boxer cartridges were of the coil type. The U.S. cartridges were drawn copper, like a big .22 rimfire, but with an inside primer added (there were several different types). Copper won't contract after expanding like brass does, and the empties stuck in the chambers, with the extractor tearing through the thin copper rims. Depending on which book you read, the problem was either common or very rare. Jim

January 10, 2000, 10:53 PM	#19
Squirrel_Bait Member Join Date: December 30, 1999 Location: La Puente, CA, USA Posts: 65	Dang! Somebody lied to me! Thanks Jim for the correction.

January 12, 2000, 12:14 PM	#20
kraMrD Member Join Date: July 1, 1999 Posts: 55	Enjoy, Mark

January 12, 2000, 02:22 PM	#21
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Mark, I would really enjoy shooting those guns. You are buying the ammo, I presume. Jim

January 12, 2000, 02:35 PM	#22
kraMrD Member Join Date: July 1, 1999 Posts: 55	I can only afford the ammo for these types of weapons when playing QUAKE... you just find it laying all over the place M.

January 12, 2000, 08:42 PM	#23
Edmund Rowe Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1998 Location: Warner Robins, GA USA Posts: 351	4V50 Gary: Did your buddy use the 5.56 minigun or the 7.62 minigun on those river patrols? I was under the impression that few if any militarys ever bought the 5.56 minigun. Of course, the river rats in the Mekong Delta no doubt got most anything that worked that they could midnight requisition I'm sure! The gun on "Predator" is a Stembridge gun rental special. I don't think any hand-held gun like that was ever deployed. What I can't figure out watching the movie is where did they hide the extension cord? Edmund

January 13, 2000, 09:21 PM	#24
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	I too have a friend with pictures of his 7.62 Mini-Gun on his PBR. The friend is a retired CW4 (Navy) and was happy about the way they broke ambushs but said that he had to have a Conex full of barrels. His thoughts are the the weapon was designed for aircraft and just got too hot on a boat. Giz

January 14, 2000, 08:16 PM	#25
Edmund Rowe Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1998 Location: Warner Robins, GA USA Posts: 351	Another comment: Is that the triple-minigun that flipped over and killed the owner's daughter at Knob Creek a few years ago? I heard it fractured his little girl's skull. Fortunately it didn't flip over and spray uprange on full auto IIRC. Edmund