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November 29, 2018, 12:45 AM | #1 | ||
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Trump administration to announce final bump stock ban
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/28/polit...ban/index.html
I thought they already had . So this is looking like they plan to use regulations to ban the bump/slide fire stock . There seems to be two problems with going this route rather then legislatively . First would be that this issue had already come up several years ago and the ATF deemed them to be legal . How ever now they seemed to have changed there minds . I'd assume when the law suite is filed they will use the ATF's own words against them as to why they should not be regulated Quote:
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; November 29, 2018 at 02:01 AM. |
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November 29, 2018, 01:03 AM | #2 |
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Now we wait to see what the collateral damage will be.
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Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
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November 29, 2018, 02:06 AM | #3 |
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CA has a law tied up in the courts right now banning magazines that hold more then ten rounds . The ban it self , although bad IMO , also requires the legal owners of such items to turn them in , destroy them or sell them out of state some how ( internet I assume ) . This is being challenged on 4th amendment grounds and along other grounds I'm sure .
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; November 29, 2018 at 04:24 PM. |
November 29, 2018, 08:54 AM | #4 | ||
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Quote:
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PhormerPhantomPhlyer "Tools not Trophies” Last edited by USNRet93; November 29, 2018 at 09:45 AM. |
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November 29, 2018, 09:40 AM | #5 |
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Not surprising at all. Let's stick with the decision and it's implication.
Discussing the pros and cons of the Donald outside of the legal issue - I don't want to moderate that. Plenty of other fora to do that.
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November 29, 2018, 10:12 AM | #6 |
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I assume the law would cover binary-triggers also. Bump stocks are about $100 but binary-triggers are $400+
That's a big monetary determent for compliance, especially for BT's.
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November 29, 2018, 10:19 AM | #7 |
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So where would those crank devices you used to see for Ruger 22s fit in? Or the Gatling gun version of the two Ruger 10/22s?
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November 29, 2018, 12:07 PM | #8 |
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The structure of our government is that the President enforces law but doesn't create law. It's really the job of the legislature to deal with this, not the President.
Or maybe I'm too simple-minded to understand why it's okay for the Executive Branch to take this kind of action......... Unless it's to direct the bureaucracy of the BATF to do THEIR job. --Wag--
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November 29, 2018, 12:45 PM | #9 | |
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All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better. |
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November 29, 2018, 02:37 PM | #10 |
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A semi-auto with a bump stock fires only once with each pull of the trigger. A binary-trigger semi-auto fires when the trigger is pulled & then when it is released. Still only one pull of the trigger. That's why the BATF said they were okay to begin with.
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November 29, 2018, 04:15 PM | #11 | ||
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The problem I see with changing the definition of automatic weapon . They may instantly change many firearms into NFA items with out even realizing it .
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; November 29, 2018 at 04:22 PM. |
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November 29, 2018, 05:03 PM | #12 |
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I look at it a bit differently. Its not the "semiautomatic" part that bothers me, its "initiate a continuous firing cycle".
Now, just what the hell is that??? It seems to ignore the simple and obvious fact that the trigger is pulled EACH time, for each shot. The chief defining factor in the legal definition of an automatic weapon is being able to fire more than one shot with a single trigger pull/operation. Bump fire DOES NOT DO THAT! The trigger is pulled for each and every shot. There are two cases I have heard of (though I cannot cite them, and they may just be urban legend, but the logic still holds, even if they are...) involving home made Tommy guns. The first was a guy who made a perfect replica Tommy Gun, all the parts including the chambered and rifled barrel were made of wood. Only the springs were metal. Charges brought, illegal full auto firearm... Defense was simply the legal definition, being able to fire more than one round with a single trigger pull. Case dismissed, as a wooden gun will not survive firing the first round, and so cannot fire MORE than one round for a single pull of the trigger. Second case was a genius modeler. Made a Tommy Gun, wood and metal, perfect scale replica of the original, the entire gun was about 4 inches long. Again, (and against all reason it seems) charges were brought, but dismissed, because the gun could not fire more than one round, no ammo small enough exists! Re-classifying a semi auto into a full auto "that initiates with a single trigger pull" is just wrong. Seems like re-classifying a car into boat because both initiate by turning an ignition key or pushing button... Much as I hate to give the Obama administration credit for anything, their ATF got it right when they said bump fire stocks were not regulated under existing NFA law. The "right" way to do it, if it must be done, is for CONGRESS to write a specific law (or specific change to existing law) and get it passed through the normal legislative process. Banning them through a regulatory definition change is the WRONG way to do it. It's actually bad government. And, don't we have more than enough of that, already??
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November 30, 2018, 08:49 AM | #13 |
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Making this change by regulation is a bad government practice. Regulatory agencies doing flip flops on legal interpretations makes it difficult for people to follow the law and decreases respect for those laws. Additionally, it opens up potential for abuse in an area of law that is already beset by vague, poorly drafted statutes, and awkward technical details.
And of course, when you get down to it, the problem is they are asking ATF to ban devices that assist people in pulling the trigger on a semi-automatic firearm too quickly, without defining what “too quickly” is. That’s a camel’s whole hind end in the tent, not a nose. |
November 30, 2018, 07:01 PM | #14 |
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kiss your AKs and ARs good bye.
It doesn't take a bump stock to rapid fire one. Before bump stocks, people were hooking their belts to the trigger and then of course, if you push the rifle with the fore grip you can rapid fire a stock AR with no modification at all... they will easily connect the dots and accurately claim that every semi- IS an automatic by this definition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RdAhTxyP64
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November 30, 2018, 08:06 PM | #15 |
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After all these years of gun ownership and supporting gun rights and all of that, I’m just going to stop having any concern about it all. ARs and other semiautomatic firearms will be banned at some point in the future. I will obey all laws to the best of my ability and get rid of anything I’m required to get rid of. I don’t want to inadvertently break the law just because some moved the goal posts.
Most of our power structure is against us owning guns. A few more election cycles and it will be done. One state at a time, radical extremists are winning elections. Won’t be long until flyover country is taken over too. I hear lots of “come and take it” and “cold dead fingers” and “the constitution” along with every other 2nd amendment slogan... but the reality is that most people will simply comply or hide their guns rendering them essentially useless anyway. I’ll vote the way I vote, but I will also comply with any laws that come out in the future. |
November 30, 2018, 09:11 PM | #16 |
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Good for you
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November 30, 2018, 09:37 PM | #17 |
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rickyrick , is there anything else us law abiding citizens can do . The law is the law , we’ll need are reps or local officials to stand with us like the sheriff in that Washington small town is doing and declaring a sanctuary city for gun rights .
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/san...-2nd-amendment
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
November 30, 2018, 09:53 PM | #18 | |
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Quote:
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November 30, 2018, 10:22 PM | #19 |
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I had to turn in my 12 round Glock magazines because of NY ten round max limit
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December 2, 2018, 05:28 PM | #20 |
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Time to storm the streets?
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Many things others should worry about.... |
December 2, 2018, 06:01 PM | #21 |
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More bump stock thoughts
Never had one, don't want one & honestly why does anyone need one? I will fight for the 2nd Amendment but are we pushing the envelope to far? Just because it can be added to a firearm does it have to be? I support the NRA but we gun owners need to apply common sense AND defend our gun rights, just sayin' my thoughts guys!!
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December 2, 2018, 09:22 PM | #22 | |
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it's not the fact that the bump fire stock is a "gadget" a fun toy (for some) with no real use other than entertainment, it is the fact that we wish the government to play by their own rules, and be consistent about it. It's not a firearm, but they want to ban it under a specific firearm TAX law. They want to change law via a regulation change. This is NOT the proper thing to do. It is not the Executive branch's authority to change (make) law. They may even be trying to redefine what legally constitutes a full auto weapon. Again, entirely by regulation /definition change, entirely within the Executive branch. I could go so far as to say banning bump fire stocks this way is unconstitutional, and NOT because of any 2nd Amendment issue. It's unconstitutional because they are not obeying the Constitution's established separation of powers in government.
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December 3, 2018, 09:42 AM | #23 | |
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December 3, 2018, 10:26 AM | #24 | ||
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There is also a broader constitutional issue in legislation through regulation: Quote:
The bump-stock issue isn't really about a hokey gizmo; it's about whether our rights yield every time they meet publicly expressed discomfort. Yield on this and you invest public pearl clutching with greater authority.
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http://www.npboards.com/index.php Last edited by zukiphile; December 3, 2018 at 02:00 PM. |
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December 3, 2018, 11:48 AM | #25 | |
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I suggest a review of Lawdog's blog on the cake: https://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/.../a-repost.html There are definitions that establish what constitutes a "machine gun" or fully automatic firearm. There is a definition of what constitutes a semi-automatic firearm: one pull of the trigger fires a single round. Once we allow the regulators to muck around with the definitions, blurring the lines, we make it that much easier for them to tweak the definitions a bit more when they're ready to come after the next group of firearms they want to eliminate. |
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