muzzleloading bullet sizer

bamaranger · July 10, 2020, 07:59 PM

Anybody using the "Smooth bullet sizer" from Hanks Precision Gun Parts, Dry Ridge KY????

243winxb · July 11, 2020, 08:08 PM

http://swinglock.net/

Note that the T/C Maxi Ball is different diameters for a reason.

Pure lead will expand in diameter under enough pressure.

The die may be useful if bullets are oversize a lot.

bamaranger · July 12, 2020, 12:47 AM

No problem with commercial, Maxiballs or Maxihunters. But they are getting hard to find and far too expensive when I do.

I've bought a REAL mold, cal.50 and am finding my cast slugs hard to seat, especially after the first one, despite swabbing. Problem could be my casting, but .32 Maxi's I make for a CVA seat and shoot well enough. Problem could be an over sized mold, lots of negative comments on Lee molds. But I thought I'd try it as they are so affordable.

The REAL's have an oversize engraving/driving band up front, I get it. I should measure the dia of a commercial Maxi v. my cast REAL's, that should tell me something. The "Smooth Die" is expensive, I could buy a real Maxi mold for about half the price.

The Smooth seems a nifty tool though.

Jim Watson · July 12, 2020, 07:58 AM

What diameter do you want? Lee makes bullet sizing sets for .501" and .510" but will make special order diameters.

243winxb · July 12, 2020, 04:16 PM

Make sure the lead is pure. https://support.leeprecision.net/en/...rsized-bulletsJust a small % of antimony will increase diameters.

I use, scrub the bore with an oversize bronze brush before loading the next round.

More from Mr. Lee. https://support.leeprecision.net/en/...eter-tolerance

bamaranger · July 13, 2020, 01:03 AM

Jim, I have not measured, so cannot answer accurately. The Smooth Die is adjustable, it appears the Swing-Lock maybe as well. As a general answer, I would like the diameter on my cast REALs, (the largest band) to be the same dia as commercial Maxi's, which seat easily. Again, I have not measured, oughta do that!

I suspect my REALs are oversize, due to lead/antimony mix as noted by 243winxb and likely to hot lead/mold temp as well. I seriously doubt my range & scrap lead is very pure. But I use the same Heinz Variety mix to do my .32's, and they seat fine........but the bore/slug tolerances in the .32 CVA may be larger.

I'll measure some tonight.

5whiskey · July 14, 2020, 04:39 AM

bamaranger have you gotten the REAL to group worth a darn yet? I’ve tried it in .50 and results were abysmal. I don’t think it’s my casting (though I guess it could be) as I rejected every bullet dropped that didn’t have crisp lines and good mold fill. The .490 ball from the other cavity of that mold shoots quite well, though I’m aware PRBs are easier to get right. I guess I’ve chalked it up to the 1:48 twist that probably isn’t sufficient (though theoretically it should be).

Jim Watson · July 14, 2020, 08:36 AM

REAL bullet bands are stepped in diameter, .50 spec is "Driving band diameters from the base of the bullet to the tip: .502, .507, .512, and .517."
A sizing die will make them all the same.

If you want to experiment, take a steel ruler or such and roll one on a hard surface with calipers at hand until it is the size you want. Tedious but cheap. I actually demonstrated this for a coworker whose Maxiballs just would not load and it let him get to shooting. I don't recall if he said how well.

Hawg · July 14, 2020, 04:51 PM

REALS are supposed to be difficult to load since the rifling is engraved on loading, hence the name. If yours aren't pure lead they will come out of the mold oversize. That's not the molds fault. The harder lead is the less it shrinks on cooling, so if they're not pure lead they're going to be that much harder to seat.

243winxb · July 14, 2020, 07:30 PM

The hotter alloy & mold will allow the cast bullet to shrink more as it cools. But may only be smaller by .0005" Alloy bullets will appear frosted.

Pure lead will produce the smallest diameter & heaviest weight.

Hawg · July 14, 2020, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Alloy bullets will appear frosted.

So will pure lead if it's too hot.

bamaranger · July 15, 2020, 10:50 PM

No, I am not satisfied with the REAL groups I'm shooting. The rifle is a T/C White Mtn carbine, w/ a peep, twisted 1:20. It shoots Maxi's of both description well enough to hunt, say 3 MOA, with 70 grains of 3F. The REALs are shooting twice that if not more. The carbine will not shoot round balls worth a hoot either, but that is no surprise. I have some heavy Lyman Great Plains, but cannot recall if I've ever shot them for group. I do recall the Great Plains were difficult to seat as well. I have no interest in shooting any type of sabot. For what it's worth, they have not shot all that well in my 1:48 Renegade either.

Casting REALS is a move towards economy. I really only use the White Moutain for hunting, and may have enough commercial/factory Maxi's to likely last. Store bought conicals are now incredibly expensive. If I improve my lead mix and casting, I would likely shoot the carbine more.

bamaranger · July 20, 2020, 12:13 PM

I took my budget Frankford Arsenal digital mic to the REAL's. Largest (front) driving band measures .512-.513" , occasionally I'd get one a thousandth or so larger. Moving rearward, the bands are smaller, but I did not record them. I mic'd factory 370 gr Maxiballs, they went .506 at the front band, consistently. I also mic'd the Buffalo bullets (385 gr) and they went .512" up front.

So I'd say the REAL's and the Buffalo's are the same diameter, and my conclusion is that the REAL's are not particularly over size, being so near the same dia as the Buffalo bullets. I will keep trying to get the REAL's to shoot, maybe an over powder wad, and vary powder charge and type....we'll see. And I'll keep cleaning, and a mallet handy.

It's no wonder the Maxiballs seat easier, at .006+" smaller. Oddly, they shoot better too.

July 10, 2020, 07:59 PM	#1
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	muzzleloading bullet sizer Anybody using the "Smooth bullet sizer" from Hanks Precision Gun Parts, Dry Ridge KY????

July 11, 2020, 08:08 PM	#2
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	http://swinglock.net/ Note that the T/C Maxi Ball is different diameters for a reason. Pure lead will expand in diameter under enough pressure. The die may be useful if bullets are oversize a lot. Last edited by 243winxb; July 11, 2020 at 08:24 PM.

July 12, 2020, 12:47 AM	#3
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	oversize No problem with commercial, Maxiballs or Maxihunters. But they are getting hard to find and far too expensive when I do. I've bought a REAL mold, cal.50 and am finding my cast slugs hard to seat, especially after the first one, despite swabbing. Problem could be my casting, but .32 Maxi's I make for a CVA seat and shoot well enough. Problem could be an over sized mold, lots of negative comments on Lee molds. But I thought I'd try it as they are so affordable. The REAL's have an oversize engraving/driving band up front, I get it. I should measure the dia of a commercial Maxi v. my cast REAL's, that should tell me something. The "Smooth Die" is expensive, I could buy a real Maxi mold for about half the price. The Smooth seems a nifty tool though.

July 13, 2020, 01:03 AM	#6
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	diameters & antimony Jim, I have not measured, so cannot answer accurately. The Smooth Die is adjustable, it appears the Swing-Lock maybe as well. As a general answer, I would like the diameter on my cast REALs, (the largest band) to be the same dia as commercial Maxi's, which seat easily. Again, I have not measured, oughta do that! I suspect my REALs are oversize, due to lead/antimony mix as noted by 243winxb and likely to hot lead/mold temp as well. I seriously doubt my range & scrap lead is very pure. But I use the same Heinz Variety mix to do my .32's, and they seat fine........but the bore/slug tolerances in the .32 CVA may be larger. I'll measure some tonight.

July 14, 2020, 04:39 AM	#7
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,652	bamaranger have you gotten the REAL to group worth a darn yet? I’ve tried it in .50 and results were abysmal. I don’t think it’s my casting (though I guess it could be) as I rejected every bullet dropped that didn’t have crisp lines and good mold fill. The .490 ball from the other cavity of that mold shoots quite well, though I’m aware PRBs are easier to get right. I guess I’ve chalked it up to the 1:48 twist that probably isn’t sufficient (though theoretically it should be). __________________ Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946

July 12, 2020, 07:58 AM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	What diameter do you want? Lee makes bullet sizing sets for .501" and .510" but will make special order diameters.

July 12, 2020, 04:16 PM	#5
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Make sure the lead is pure. https://support.leeprecision.net/en/...rsized-bulletsJust a small % of antimony will increase diameters. I use, scrub the bore with an oversize bronze brush before loading the next round. More from Mr. Lee. https://support.leeprecision.net/en/...eter-tolerance

July 14, 2020, 08:36 AM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	REAL bullet bands are stepped in diameter, .50 spec is "Driving band diameters from the base of the bullet to the tip: .502, .507, .512, and .517." A sizing die will make them all the same. If you want to experiment, take a steel ruler or such and roll one on a hard surface with calipers at hand until it is the size you want. Tedious but cheap. I actually demonstrated this for a coworker whose Maxiballs just would not load and it let him get to shooting. I don't recall if he said how well.

July 14, 2020, 04:51 PM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	REALS are supposed to be difficult to load since the rifling is engraved on loading, hence the name. If yours aren't pure lead they will come out of the mold oversize. That's not the molds fault. The harder lead is the less it shrinks on cooling, so if they're not pure lead they're going to be that much harder to seat.

July 14, 2020, 07:30 PM	#10
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	The hotter alloy & mold will allow the cast bullet to shrink more as it cools. But may only be smaller by .0005" Alloy bullets will appear frosted. Pure lead will produce the smallest diameter & heaviest weight.

July 15, 2020, 10:50 PM	#12
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	groups No, I am not satisfied with the REAL groups I'm shooting. The rifle is a T/C White Mtn carbine, w/ a peep, twisted 1:20. It shoots Maxi's of both description well enough to hunt, say 3 MOA, with 70 grains of 3F. The REALs are shooting twice that if not more. The carbine will not shoot round balls worth a hoot either, but that is no surprise. I have some heavy Lyman Great Plains, but cannot recall if I've ever shot them for group. I do recall the Great Plains were difficult to seat as well. I have no interest in shooting any type of sabot. For what it's worth, they have not shot all that well in my 1:48 Renegade either. Casting REALS is a move towards economy. I really only use the White Moutain for hunting, and may have enough commercial/factory Maxi's to likely last. Store bought conicals are now incredibly expensive. If I improve my lead mix and casting, I would likely shoot the carbine more.

July 20, 2020, 12:13 PM	#13
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,300	measurements I took my budget Frankford Arsenal digital mic to the REAL's. Largest (front) driving band measures .512-.513" , occasionally I'd get one a thousandth or so larger. Moving rearward, the bands are smaller, but I did not record them. I mic'd factory 370 gr Maxiballs, they went .506 at the front band, consistently. I also mic'd the Buffalo bullets (385 gr) and they went .512" up front. So I'd say the REAL's and the Buffalo's are the same diameter, and my conclusion is that the REAL's are not particularly over size, being so near the same dia as the Buffalo bullets. I will keep trying to get the REAL's to shoot, maybe an over powder wad, and vary powder charge and type....we'll see. And I'll keep cleaning, and a mallet handy. It's no wonder the Maxiballs seat easier, at .006+" smaller. Oddly, they shoot better too.