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Old March 6, 2010, 05:17 AM   #1
misnomerga
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This should be an addendum to Wally Walk

Water Closet Ballet

Use the Public restroom for a number two

Let me preface this by saying this is not the most glamorous of episodes in the life of a CCW but more on the line of ordinary day to day living.

I find that the OWB holster and gun are very cumbersome when I have to sit on the porcelain throne so I have to unholster, do my business, then gather myself together, and reholster before I exit the royal chamber. This is a so what at home but always interesting in the public arena.
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Old March 6, 2010, 08:06 AM   #2
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What ever you do, make sure you take it with you!I mean that anytime you remove your gun you great a chance that you will leave it behind.
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Old March 6, 2010, 10:11 AM   #3
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This is actually discussed fairly often on gun forums. There seem to be three basic plans:

1. Unholster, find a place to stash the hardware, and for the love of God don't forget it when you are done.

2. A variation that takes care of the forgetting part is to stash your pistol in the sling of your recently descended drawers.

3. Use the gun and holster as the strong-side handle for the descent and ascent of the pants and drawers, thereby keeping your hand on the pistol the entire time. A certain amount of ambidexterity is necessary for some other functions, but it can be done.

Like a lot of gun issues, it is actually a matter of getting comfortable with your way of doing it. It is admittedly a bit awkward until you get a system down, but everything eventually comes out OK (pun intended).
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Old March 6, 2010, 10:15 AM   #4
Brian Pfleuger
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I carry IWB, I simply find a stall that has a wall on the right side when I'm sitting. Proceed as normal.
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Old March 6, 2010, 12:02 PM   #5
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I see absolutely no reason to ever unholster in public.

If your rig is so unstable that it will fall off your belt or fling your firearm to the floor while doing your business, you need a better holster or a sturdier belt that fits the holster properly.

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Old March 6, 2010, 12:18 PM   #6
misnomerga
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Pax,

In response to:

Quote:
If your rig is so unstable that it will fall off your belt or fling your firearm to the floor while doing your business, you need a better holster or a sturdier belt that fits the holster properly.
It is not really the design of the holster that is the issue it is more the weight that causes that side of the pants to sag and pull everything to one side. My point is that it is not something you can do absentmindedly when packing. No issue when I use the Kramer because nothing has to be out of place.
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Old March 6, 2010, 05:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
If your rig is so unstable that it will fall off your belt or fling your firearm to the floor while doing your business, you need a better holster or a sturdier belt that fits the holster properly.
I carry a Glock 26 IWB on a Beltman belt. When unsupported and released from the belt tension, the weight of the full magazine makes it top-heavy and it flips gun, holster, one side of the belt, and the corresponding top part of britches upside down. The pistol stays in the holster, but sooner or later it has to be turned back upright if I am going to appear in public again without a great deal of embarrassment, uproar, and hearty laughter. It is more efficient, more in keeping with principles of safe muzzle control, and easier to get dressed again if I control that process by keeping a hand on the gun and holster during the whole process. Hence my recommendation.

I am pretty sure you are shaped differently than me, though, so perhaps it is less of a problem for you, Pax. And different pistols behave differently, too - when I carried a S&W snubby it didn't do beltline gymanstics in the throne room.
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Old March 6, 2010, 06:44 PM   #8
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Why not slip the gun out of the holster and place it in the crotch area of your undies and pants while sitting and taking care of business. I guess in one respect I am lucky I do not have to sit to take care of #2 or #1
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Old March 6, 2010, 06:55 PM   #9
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TG,

Yep, we're shaped differently. But my IWB Glock is subject to the same gravity that yours is.

If there is no risk of the gun falling out of the holster, there's really no reason to take it out of the holster -- and lots of good reasons not to.

Every time a firearm is handled with the trigger exposed, there is the potential for an embarrassingly noisy mistake. Minimize handling the firearm unnecessarily, and you minimize that risk.

Further, taking it out of the holster greatly increases the chance that you'll set it somewhere foolish (on top of the TP? hanging from the hook on the back of the door? on the back of the toilet?) with the resulting risk of dropping the firearm or leaving it behind when you finish.

Setting the firearm in your underwear is the best of a bad series of options if you start by taking the firearm out of its safe holster. But which way is the muzzle pointed while you're handling that firearm? Safe direction...? I don't think so! Keeping the gun in the holster, with its trigger covered, is still far safer and far more secure.

Given an otherwise secure setup and if the only trouble is that it's flipping over, put a hand on it to stabilize it while dropping your drawers and doing your business. Or put a hand on it to stabilize it while dropping drawers, then rebuckle your belt below the knee while doing business.

Just don't take it out of the holster, with the potential for leaving it behind, dropping it, fumbling it, or inadvertently doing something stupidly dangerous with it. Leave it in the holster where it belongs.

That's all I'm sayin'.

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Old March 6, 2010, 07:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Yep, we're shaped differently. But my IWB Glock is subject to the same gravity that yours is.
Hmmm...how can I put this delicately? But....your pants and his are probably at two completely different points of rest while you are, er, resting. As my wife used to ask, "Why do men have to have their pants around their ankles while in a stall?" My shocked reply? "We have different stuff than you, didn't you know?" Men leaving their legs perfectly together is generally not an option the way it is for women, therefore the trousers have to come much further down.
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Old March 6, 2010, 07:16 PM   #11
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Stevie-Ray,

Not to be too indelicate, but I'm fat, and never leave my legs together while doing my thing. Sorry, I know it's TMI! But I don't know how else to make it clear -- gravity is the same for both sexes, and unholstering in public for reasons other than self-defense is bad juju.

Again, rebuckle the belt at or below the knee if keeping a hand on the holstered firearm isn't an option. Or flip the entire holstered firearm into the trousers if you must. But don't take the firearm out of its safe, inert, secure, trigger-covered resting place unless you need to shoot someone. There's no safe direction in a public stall.

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Old March 6, 2010, 07:23 PM   #12
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Pax, I agree with absolutely everything you said - or at least everything with which I have personal experience.

I personally do the hand-on-the-holster trick, for all the reasons you said. But other folks have other preferences; my first post acknowledged the other methods that are discussed without expressing my preference, which is not good posting by me. But in the bathroom I would make you proud. But I guess you'll have to trust me on that one.

And I believe you have a good concept of gravity, too, although we probably should discuss Newtonian vs. Einsteinian models sometime. backatcha
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Old March 6, 2010, 09:21 PM   #13
Glenn E. Meyer
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1. See if you can use the handicap stall - more room to prevent the lowered gun to being seen.

2. It the gun is pocketable - like a Glock 26 or snubbie, take it out of the holster and put it in the pocket. Empty that one of course.

3. See if you can snatch a plastic bag at check out - like at Wally's. Put the gun in that and on the floor.

I'm always amused by the folks who say they never use the facilities but wait till they get home. I guess they never drove their kid cross country to college.
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Old March 6, 2010, 10:24 PM   #14
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What a great subject, I can't resist posting. Now I don't normally carry concealed, but I do have a couple of years experience in carrying an M9 in a SERPA paddle holster. When unbuckling the pants I would keep one hand on the pistol grip and basically ride it to the floor as I sat, then I would reverse the procedure when finished by pulling up my pants by pulling up with the pistol. Never had any issues. Now I suppose if I were concerned that the neighbor in the stall next to me might see my gun and freak out I would justify unholstering and placing the gun in the crotch of my trousers. In all honesty I don't like using public restrooms for #2 so I would try and avoid this situation for different reasons entirely.
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Old March 7, 2010, 02:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Again, rebuckle the belt at or below the knee if keeping a hand on the holstered firearm isn't an option. Or flip the entire holstered firearm into the trousers if you must.
I've done both of these and they work quite well with retention holsters. But, my EDC generally resides in a Don Hume JIT slide, which does not offer much in the way of retention capabilities, and in this case I take it out and lay it in the "sling" facing the wall, and being a 1911, I never really worried about safety. In contrast, both my Glocks reside in retention holsters and are better suited to the above methods.
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Old March 7, 2010, 09:19 PM   #16
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I use a belly band no problem at all.
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Old March 8, 2010, 07:45 AM   #17
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Put your gun into a back pocket. The weight is then removed from the holster and it doesn’t tend to flip over sideways and the gun is in a place that’s difficult for a “neighbor” to see it.

In this case should a “neighbor” see it you now have a problem unrelated to guns.
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Old March 16, 2010, 10:21 AM   #18
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just button your pants after they're off your hips and use the tension of your spread legs to hold them up just under your knees. It's awkward, but not more so than most other suggestions.
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Old March 18, 2010, 09:10 AM   #19
uspJ
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one option is to stop the pants right above the knees and spread your legs to keep tension of your belt so that the gun doesn't flip. I'm 6ft 260lbs and where loose fitting jeans and i have no problem keeping my glock 26 secure when doing my business.

a pocket holster pretty much takes care of this problem as well.
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Old March 18, 2010, 11:39 PM   #20
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I just pull my underwear up over my IWB rig after I drop the drawers. Works for me every time.... I don't see what all the fuss is about.
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Old March 20, 2010, 08:37 PM   #21
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the ancient 'number two border shuffle" is an apt description of the manuevering required. here are some good hints and tips, both observed in history and hollywood.

1. the "detective noire" style, look closely at the old black and white gangster films. lots of the times youll see that the guys are carrying their heaters and gats in something called a shoulder holster.
a system proven to keep the heater up where its supposed to be and not skittering 20 feet away along urine soaked tile floor as can happen when the belt holstered gun hits the floor while you try to prevent dirty underpants, curtesy of back alley taco's.
main issue with shoulder holster is many system require the holster to be attached to the belt to keep it in place. however many vintage 1890-1920 shoulder rigs survive that utilize a thin leather band around the waist, completely seperate from the trouser belt to do that function of keeping the holster in correct place ment.

2. the "cowboy sling" , easy period correct thing thats done all the time in both old movies, when actual cowboys were used, and in period artwork. when getting cleaned up for dinner the gunbelt was quite often pulled off, and when the grooming was accomplished, the gent would buckle his gun belt, and sling it over his shoulder as a baldric/crossdraw rig.
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Old March 21, 2010, 12:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
I see absolutely no reason to ever unholster in public.
Well now, when I am behind that particular door I am not really in public now am I?

I really don't have any issues however. A Blackhawk SERPA holster run through my belt does not go anywhere I don't allow it to go. Really people spend too much effort trying to figure these things out.
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Old March 21, 2010, 02:56 PM   #23
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I IWB with an Uncle Mikes in the small of my back when I'm home (I know, I CCW in my own home!) and when I use the facilities in my apartment, I MUST remove the gun prior to pulling my pants down for two reasons. A) when my pants start coming down, the loaded magazine tips the gun backwards and almost into the toilet. B) it usually falls out of the pants on the floor. When CCW passes in IL, I'll still just use the facilities at home, but when I'm out and about, I'll play the gun (in holster, still) between the toilet paper roll and the wall, so that when it comes time to use the paper, I have to move the gun to use it and remind myself that it's there. For those facilities with those big plastic sealed paper containers, I might place the pistol inside of my pant leg, so that I can't pull up my pants without retrieving it. Thus preventing any kind of "forgetting." When I open carried in my apartment: I had no problems with the bathroom.
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Old March 26, 2010, 11:48 AM   #24
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This is one reason I love shoulder holsters.
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Old March 27, 2010, 02:30 AM   #25
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From a standing position;

Unfasten belt, loosen it 2-3 notches, refasten belt.

Adopt a strong, wide stance.

Unbutton fly and bring down the zipper, while keeping your supporting hand on the fly/belt combo.

Lower pants to just below knee height while maintaining outward pressure with your wide stance on the belt. Maintaining a ride height above knee level will tip the weapon when you sit, making it disadvantageous without a retention holster. Plus you'd likely find a way to pee on yourself.

Sit and proceed as normal.
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