Less than 2800 digits...

[Chris_B]

My 'M1A1' carbine- which I bought with a bill of sale as an M1A1 for not very dear money- was previously owned by an acquaintance of mine. I didn't know it at the time of purchase, it was a consignment sale. He took excellent care of it and I purchased several other things from him directly, such as an M2 stock, which is a much better shooting stock than that- I'll be brutally honest- horrible wire contraption. My carbine is a very nice reliable and accurate shooter. Probably my favorite firearm to shoot.

But I have noticed that my carbine, a 1943 Inland, bears an s/n less than 2800 digits away from the Batte M1A1 carbine's serial number, a documented original with provenance.

Oh to dream that mine is also originally an M1A1....any word on that legendary list of phantom M1A1 serial numbers???

[James K]

The M1A1 was designed for use in airborne divisions. Most glider and paratroopers carried the standard M1 rifle, but company grade officers, MP's, radio ops, and others whose job was not to engage the enemy were issued carbines, and the M1A1 made their jobs a bit easier.

To the point, the Army ordered M1A1 carbines as airborne divisions were being formed and they were made right along with the standard M1's. There was no separate contract or special paperwork, just an order to make so many M1A1's in the next week or month. No one recorded the serial numbers of the M1A1's.

Researchers have determined (with some questions on accuracy) that M1A1's were made in certain serial number ranges, which would seem to make sense, but any given number in a range could be either an M1 or an M1A1, and no way to tell which.

If you are concerned about the originality of the stock, you can post some decent pictures and we may be able to at least tell you if the stock is correct and not a repro.

Jim

[Chris_B]

Hi James. Thanks for the explanation; however I'm aware. My own carbine's s/n is smack dab in the middle of the "1st run" production range of M1A1 but that is hardly a guarantee of anything except it is an M1 carbine and it was made in 1943, halfway between the "accepted" 50K and 950K range of s/ns. That and the closeness of my carbine's s/n to a documented original is suggestive, but...nothing more. Sure yes, a 1943 Inland, yes, in the accepted range of the 1943 run of M1A1s, yes too, arguably close to another one that's documented. Trouble is, that and 6 bucks will buy me a beer.

For a while there's been a hope of finding a holy grail document listing s/ns of M1A1s, or at least mentioning some kind of selection of originals, as I'm sure you know. But it probably doesn't exist. Nobody cared at the time, and rightly so. And after the war, during rebuild, nobody cared about it then either. Why would they? It was just a tool.

My M1A1 stock...I feel I have accurately placed its construction as having been in China, circa 1987ish. A fine year for reproductions.

But no matter what, it's mine and is a fine shooter and hey, nobody can argue that it could never be an original because it's an IBM from 1942. For now and probably all time, it has the 'checkboxes' ticked off on the right things that we know about, or that we can at least generally agree about based on what we can know at this time. But so far, we have no complete list of checkboxes that can prove or disprove authenticity. I can dream though. Tomorrow we might find that a document exists stating that every M1 carbine in my range of 452XXX was definitely not an M1A1. Could happen.

[James K]

One interesting thing about repro M1A1 stocks, or at least the Italian ones. They have far better wood and are better made than the originals. Of course, that means nothing to a collector, but it is an interesing thought. The same with the modern repros of percussion revolvers. They don't have quite the "crisp" look of the originals, but the material is good steel, a lot better than the wrought iron of the originals.

Jim

[kilimanjaro]

A beer costs six bucks nowadays? Holy cow, that used to get you six pitchers of beer, and the snacks were free.

The factory would not have switched from M1 to M1A1 and back again, not on a daily basis, anyway, they would have kept two parallel assembly lines going, one M1, the other M1A1. So you're going to need to find another M1A1 with a s/n just below yours, and another one just above it, presuming serialed parts would have routed to the assembly lines in batches.

Fifty pounds of metal in a box would probably be about right, so that should tell you how close the numbers will need to be.

Good luck.

[Chris_B]

Oh I've seen a pint more expensive than that. That's why I stopped going to bars.

Anyway. I'll need the luck!

[James K]

Actually, makers of the M1 carbine kept several assembly stations going, and stocks came from other companies, so it would have been no problem at all to deliver folding stocks to a couple of assembly stations and wood stocks to the rest. The two different models would be crated up separately, of course.

The serial numbers were put on the receivers before they were even finished, long before final assembly, so there is no way someone decided which model to assemble based on a serial number no one even looked at.

FWIW, serial numbers were of little interest or concern to factories making military weapons; the military considered them mainly a means of inventory control at the using organization, not a way to track weapons or modifications.

Jim