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Old August 2, 2019, 06:44 AM   #1
senecahornet
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Coated lead bullets

Been told by a few at the gun club i belong to that a lead coated bullet will not lead foul. I have shot over a 1,000 rounds of coated bullets in my 1911 and.......it lead fouls! It may reduce lead in the air of the indoor range. And that’s questionable.
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Old August 2, 2019, 06:54 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by senecahornet View Post
Been told by a few at the gun club i belong to that a lead coated bullet will not lead foul. I have shot over a 1,000 rounds of coated bullets in my 1911 and.......it lead fouls! It may reduce lead in the air of the indoor range. And that’s questionable.
There is "coated", then there is "coated". Coated with "High-Tech", or Powder Coated"? Do you do your own Powder Coating or Powder Coated (or High-Tech) coated bullets from someone else?
I have shot many thousands of my own cast and powder coated bullets and have had not the slightest leading. It is generally held that, just as with cast bullets lubed with something else, correct loads do not lead. You may be using too soft an alloy at too high a speed, or undersize bullets, etc.
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Old August 2, 2019, 07:33 AM   #3
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Who made the coated bullets?

I chek mine as if it was a plated bullet. You can crimp too much and break the coating. That exposes lead that can foul. I pull a bullet to make sure the crimp it not cutting the coating.

I have shot thousands in each of my guns including 4, 45 acp. 44 special, 38 special, 32-20 @ 1550 fps, 45 colt and even 380. None lead.

I did it becasue my lead levels are high. Those coated bullets and a wet tumbler helped a lot.

Precision bullets used to have a note about if you get severe smoking or leading. They have changed the website. I don't want to watch a bunch of vidios.

David
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Old August 2, 2019, 12:06 PM   #4
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Black fouling or silver? Coated can leave a hard to remove carbon fouling in autos.
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Old August 2, 2019, 12:14 PM   #5
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Like dahermit says, it depends on what it's coated with. Powder coated is just paint. Plating is metal. Usually copper. There's polymer coating too. Polymer is a type of plastic. And Molybdenum.
"...Coated with "High-Tech"..." That's paint too. Supposedly similar to car paint. High Tech is the brand name. I think.
In any case, leading is caused by driving a cast bullet too fast. Doesn't matter who made 'em. Try to drive 'em too fast and you'll get leading.
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Old August 2, 2019, 12:21 PM   #6
Jim Watson
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I don't get leading with real Hi Tek Supercoat on current BBI, Bayou, and Gallant.

Before BBI changed to Hi Tek, their "poly moly" coating fouled badly in 9mm but not in lower velocity .45.

Billy Bullets don't foul the barrel but leave your fingers black.

Blue Bullets have their own coating and a good reputation for it.

People are successfully shooting coated bullets in moderate rifle loads 2000 fps or better.

DIY powder coating can be good or bad.
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Old August 2, 2019, 01:21 PM   #7
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When you look into the barrel after removing it of course, with a 10x jewlers lens you can definitely see the lead fouling, after treating it with a solvent and bronze brush. It comes out black. Mind you that i have already removed all of the powder fouling. I have been using missouri bullets.
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Old August 2, 2019, 02:29 PM   #8
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Very interesting. I quit casting as I have a 19 mg/dL lead count.
Now more than ever I am aware that the primers are to blame. Especially indoors.
Hence I tumble outdoors, wear gloves and mask and yes dry media. But changed often. It’s cheap from the bird store.
I’m careful with my crimps too.
Glad to hear that 2,000 fps is good in rifle no lead.


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Old August 2, 2019, 02:48 PM   #9
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I have gotten a small amount of leading from coated bullets, including those coated with H-Tek. In my case I attribute it to the occasional bullet that gets some of it's coating scraped off during seating. I regard the coatings as a good low cost bullet that generally lead less than lubed lead bullets.
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Old August 2, 2019, 06:27 PM   #10
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Maxit, Was as high as almost 50 in 2006. I quit shooting all toghther. Went down to 20 in a couple years. Started shooting rimfire for a couple years, then went back to shooting with coated bullets. Been at 20 since. Doctor wrote on my chart "Chronic"

The wet tumbler was my last attempt. I am sure it helps when I pour that black water down the drain.

Now I shoot only coated. I have no problems with leading.

I have 32 moulds for sale.
David

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Old August 2, 2019, 07:29 PM   #11
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I’ve shot thousands of powder coated bullets and have had problems with exactly one batch that wasn’t cured enough. I put 50 rounds of 460 S&W at 1300 FPS down range a couple hours ago without a hint of leading. That was on top of 100 rounds of 38 Special and 200 rounds of 9mm.
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Old August 2, 2019, 11:00 PM   #12
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I use powder coat for full power handgun magnum loads (lots of guns) and typically have no trouble working up combinations that produce no leading.

I use a tumble lube (BLL) for milder loads that do not need the powder coat.

For 45 ACP (you said 1911, so I am assuming 45 ACP), the tumble lube worked great with target loads in both 230 RNs and 200 SWCs.

Leading in a 45 ACP with coated bullets either means bad coating (not likely) or "bad fit". If you are leading, the most likely cause is that your bullets are smaller than the barrel bore. The "standard" 45 ACP will be 0.452" and this is what you get with regular mail order bullets. Your reloading operation may also size then down just a little bit (if they are a tight fit in your cases). Your gun may be just a tad bigger than your "as loaded" bullets.

Of course, slugging the barrel is the obvious recommendation at this point. Cast bullets should be just a little bigger than the bore. Many bullet sellers will supply 45 ACP bullets that are bigger than the standard. If your gun is leading with 0.452" bullets, and you do not want to bother slugging the barrel, you could just try some sized to 0.454".

If you neglected to tell us that you 1911 is not 45 ACP, then please fill in the missing info. If you are shooting a 9mm (the all time champ for causing problems with cast), then I have a totally different slant on the same basic problem.

Last edited by P Flados; August 2, 2019 at 11:10 PM.
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Old August 3, 2019, 08:35 AM   #13
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I have just started fooling with cast lead bullets so I am following with intense interest.

So far what I have been working with are .356" cast for use in the 380 auto. I have 3 different samples that different members have donated for me to try. So far I like what I'm seeing.
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Old August 3, 2019, 03:15 PM   #14
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I have moved this to Bullet Casting where Beagle333 has a lot of experience with the powder coating process. He may have some insight into the MB coating. My sense is that if you need a 10X loupe to spot the fouling, it's not severe and is a good bit less dramatic than I've seen in some of my own guns in the past. You also have to be sure it is actually lead and not graphite or moly in the coating that you are chasing out. Even a bronze brush leaves enough metal behind to darken a patch a little, so the source of the issue needs to determined to a certainty.
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Old August 3, 2019, 06:39 PM   #15
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senecahornet,

Unclenick is right, if you can't see it with the naked eye and need an optic to see it, then it could be anything and personally, I wouldn't worry about it. Where abouts are you located? I'm at the south end of Seneca Lake near Watkins Glen.

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Old August 24, 2019, 06:08 PM   #16
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USSR. I’m here in Ga and came by way of TN all my family is in upstate around Corning Bath area. Last living Aunts and cousins live in Watkins Glen now. Been 45 years since I was there but a pretty place. Loved hiking through the Glen.
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Old August 24, 2019, 07:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. O'Heir View Post
Like dahermit says, it depends on what it's coated with. Powder coated is just paint. Plating is metal. Usually copper. There's polymer coating too. Polymer is a type of plastic. And Molybdenum.
"...Coated with "High-Tech"..." That's paint too. Supposedly similar to car paint. High Tech is the brand name. I think.
In any case, leading is caused by driving a cast bullet too fast. Doesn't matter who made 'em. Try to drive 'em too fast and you'll get leading.
^^^This^^^
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Old August 24, 2019, 09:03 PM   #18
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Try to drive 'em too fast and you'll get leading.
Not necessarily. Ill fit and/or pore bullet lube is the main cause of leading, not velocity.

Also, most lead in the air is caused by primers, not lead bullets.
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Old August 25, 2019, 03:21 PM   #19
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^^^This^^^
Actually, powder coating is not "just paint", or at least not what most people think paint is. It is more like a plastic coating than it is like paints that are applied as a liquid. See: "Types of powder coatings" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder_coating
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Old September 1, 2019, 08:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by senecahornet View Post
Been told by a few at the gun club i belong to that a lead coated bullet will not lead foul. I have shot over a 1,000 rounds of coated bullets in my 1911 and.......it lead fouls! It may reduce lead in the air of the indoor range. And that’s questionable.


My experience as well in many handgun calibers . I have been a bullet caster for 40 years and know all about the fit etc. my home bullets with 50/50 Alox beeswax seldom lead. The coated bullets usually do ok at 800 FPS or so but start going higher and a leaded barrel ensues(some like your 45 at lower velocity). I have loaded many thousands of commercial lead and coated bullets because I lack time to cast my own. The commercial bullets coated or not are bad about leading. One trick I have been doing for many years with them is to tumble lube them with lee liquid Alox . That solves the problem. I just tumbled some tonight and spread them on some wax paper to dry.



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Old October 14, 2019, 12:38 AM   #21
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BRAVO Dahermit!!! Yes!

A properly powder-coated projectile can be flattened on an anvil and the coating will deform with the projectile. It won't chip or flake. - So not paint.

Indeed a powder-coated round needs to be run through a sizing die before it is loaded or, due to the coating properties, it will likely be too large to chamber properly and will jam in the chamber. If it were just paint you couldn't run it through a sizing die and still have a PC'd round to reload.
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Old October 14, 2019, 01:02 AM   #22
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Here's what we're talking about -

If it were " just paint " - you couldn't smash a round like this without it chipping or flaking. :-)

if you have a question about the PC color - I mixed harbor freight red and yellow in an attempt to make orange. It didn't quite work out.
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Old October 14, 2019, 05:59 AM   #23
dahermit
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Originally Posted by senecahornet View Post
When you look into the barrel after removing it of course, with a 10x jewlers lens you can definitely see the lead fouling, after treating it with a solvent and bronze brush. It comes out black. Mind you that i have already removed all of the powder fouling. I have been using missouri bullets.
If the fouling comes out with "solvent" and a bronze brush, it is not likely "leading", but poorly cured powder coat. The common bore solvents do not remove leading. I had an incident a few years ago where my Blue powder coated bullets left Blue fouling in my K38 bore. When I baked my bullets longer, there was no more streaks of Blue fouling in the bore.
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Old October 18, 2019, 02:04 PM   #24
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I do my own powder coating via the Shake and bake method.
My experience is as follows. I use pure lead that I powder coat for all handgun loads including 44 mag (Up to 1500 FPS in my 1892) with good accuracy and zero leading. Based on my results with the 44 mag would say you cant have to soft an alloy (If Powder Coated) in 45 ACP.
I use COWW alloy (311041 GC mold for my 30-30) up to 1800 FPS and have good accuracy and no leading.
Powder coating is a bit of a pain to do but it has made getting good results loading cast bullets much easier for me.

No matter what bullet fit is important with cast bullets. I have made sure that bullet size and revolver throats are all correct in the guns I have.

Just my experience,

Thanks
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Old October 18, 2019, 07:01 PM   #25
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Just had senecahornet over to my place for a casting session with a MP 452-200 Hollow point 4 cavity mold. Will be interested in hearing how they perform for him in his 1911.

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