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Old March 3, 2020, 01:57 PM   #1
Canadianstrom
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Winchester Model 70 unknown type/modifications

I've just traded a Winchester model 190 22cal for a model 70 270 cal. It looks to be a post 64 It has an engraving on the bottom of the action from a local gun smith ( long closed) dated 1980, vice marks on the barrel, extra holes ( I think) drilled and taped in rear left of receiver, end of barrel has some marks on it like work was done to it. Barrell is 18.5 inches long. No other serial numbers, action also has machining marks on it.
Its been unloved, missing front sights, front swivel eye, was dirty and bolt was tough to move but now cleaned , moves well. Blueing is crap and it looks like someone was resting it on the top of a steel fence post. I would like to return this to a good working gun, i dont mind the patina.
Any background or guesses you can give are appreciated. Any leads or reccomendations for improvements, I'm all ears.

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Old March 3, 2020, 03:01 PM   #2
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More pics

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Old March 3, 2020, 03:04 PM   #3
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And more

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Old March 3, 2020, 05:17 PM   #4
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I worked on one recently in 270 Weatherby mag--the bluing was messed up but the bore was still quite good. That barrel looks well-abused, maybe even cut down? I'd probably think about a new barrel if the bore/crown are messed up. Looks kinda like somebody wanted to make a heavy woods carbine out of it.
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Old March 3, 2020, 05:53 PM   #5
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I can't see the safety. That appears to be one of the budget rifles. At various times they were sold as the Winchester Ranger, 770, or even 670. A few of them were made with a Remington style 2 position safety. I can't see it clearly from your photos but it does not appear to have a traditional Winchester 3 position wing safety.

Does the safety look like this.

https://www.google.com/search?q=winc...QyqRncpX4HL5kM

Or this

https://www.google.com/search?q=winc...HWH_4O1ub_VhGM

And a blind magazine is uncommon on even the budget guns.

At any rate it isn't worth much. I'd not put any money in it. Clean it up and make a beater truck gun out of it.
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Old March 3, 2020, 07:53 PM   #6
Canadianstrom
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Thanks for the replies.
Yes the muzzle looks like there is saw marks so maybe cut down and the tapped holes for front sight look a little ugly . The bore looks and feels ok as best i can tell.

The safety is a 3 position one like one in photo.
I guess I have to give up thinking I got a screaming deal on a highgrade. I had thought about putting a front sight on it just for looks but I'll save the money and just put a cheap scope on it.

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Old March 3, 2020, 09:42 PM   #7
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therebshoulod be a SN on the rightside of the front action ring.

If a "U" it maybe a SEARs "Ted Williams Moei 73. the blind magazine supports that conclusion.

The front screw holes are for the tall standing front ramp, that is missing.

The rear sight seems to be proper for that age.

The barrel MAYBE a replacement of the Ted Williams with a M70, the bareel lenght should be 22 inches, anything less is "smirhed".

Is the bolt a "push-feed" or a "controlled rond" feed??

Get some more photos.

Also look at the Winchestercollectors .com forum, might get more information.
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Old March 4, 2020, 01:59 AM   #8
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To me, it looks like you traded into a project. I wouldn't even bother with chiming in except for the fact that I really like model 70 Winchesters. The 270 is my favorite caliber in that rifle with a close second to 30-'06. That being said, I say get a replacement barrel in either one of those two calibers. I feel the the 270 needs at least a 22" barrel and preferably 24'', to make it be what it ought to be. At the length it is, it will be terribly loud and have disappointing ballistics for that caliber. The particular vintage of the rifle is such that it doesn't have any premium value, but you could make a good hunting rifle out of it, and, again, in my view, it is inherently a much better action than a Remington. You can build it into something better for yourself, but don't look to make any profit from it. Trade it off if you aren't up to a project of this stature. There are plenty of other guys who make their home available for orphan rifles if they aren't overpriced.
I'd think about the most economical upgrades, starting with the barrel, and maybe not going much further, trying not to put too much money into it.
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Old March 4, 2020, 01:51 PM   #9
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Your UN indicate you're a neighbour of mine? Only matters when discussing values. Where you are sort of matters, but only when it comes to finding stuff here. For example, no barrels allowed across the border without US permits. Not a big deal though. There are Canadian barrel makers and importers.
"...vice marks on the barrel..." That indicates incompetence on the part of whoever did it.
"...Barrel is 18.5 inches long...saw marks..." It's absolutely been cut. The stock looks aftermarket too. Whatever it says in the top picture in your Post #3 was done with an electric pencil/engraver.
I'd say what you have is a very good action, a long action at that, for a custom rifle. The long action is for any .30-06 based cartridge.
"...got a screaming deal..." Stateside, a Win 190 runs around $200US on the assorted auction sites. A .270 Win M70 starts at roughly $300US. So it's still not horrible. And you cannot easily buy an M70 action by itself.
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Old March 4, 2020, 02:45 PM   #10
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The holes in the left side of the bridge are for a receiver sight. I don't know when they quit bothering to do that.

Agree, not a stock stock. Either a replacement or an impressed checkering factory stock shaved down.
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Old March 4, 2020, 02:55 PM   #11
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Canadianstrom,

Pease don't take this wrong,
but I don't think spending $$$ on that rifle is your best option!
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Old March 4, 2020, 04:25 PM   #12
Canadianstrom
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Thanks for all the insights.
Heres a few more pics, i didn't notice the barrell pic was so poor and that i had missed the bolt and trigger.
I'm agreeing the barrell was cut with a hacksaw by a hack and that i have a project/beater gun. I wondered if the stock had forend sanded.
So it was a cheaper model from 64 to 92, i guess.
I do plan on getting it shooting, cheaply. I'm thinking cheap scope and rings , most shooting will be 75 to 150 yards so hopeful its serviceable for that task. If its more dollars that, I'll look to trade it towards a varmint bolt gun.

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Old March 4, 2020, 05:53 PM   #13
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FYI, you can buy takeoff barrels on ebay pretty reasonably priced, many have very little use. Same with the stock, you may be able to score a period correct stock on ebay and make the rifle look brand new.
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Old March 5, 2020, 12:20 PM   #14
Pathfinder45
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I notice the rifle has what's called a blind-magazine.... I'm inclined to believe that the stock may be the original, though perhaps altered.... The rifle has what I consider to be a great trigger and an excellent safety. Install a half-decent barrel and it could be a good rifle.
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Old March 5, 2020, 01:32 PM   #15
T. O'Heir
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"...the stock may be the original..." Don't think Winchester ever used a grip like that on a factory stock. The stock looks dry to me too. That's not a big deal though. Bit of Linseed oil or Murphy's Oil Soap will fix that.
You really only need to decide how much money you want to put into it. Lotta that will depend on where you are. Gunparts lists 'post 64', M70, "push feed" barrels starting at $85 US. "Control feed" barrels, all of which are WSM or WSSM or UltraMag cartridges and no use to you without machining due to the rim diameter, start at $85, but are mostly a bit over $100.
"...on E-Bay..." That gives money to the people who want to take it away from you.
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Old March 5, 2020, 04:22 PM   #16
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Still one of the finest receiver and trigger designs ever made in my opinion so look at it that way and it still has value
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Old March 5, 2020, 11:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Don't think Winchester ever used a grip like that on a factory stock.
I think you're right about that... But there's a lot I don't know about Canadian Winchesters....Aren't they in partnership of sorts with Cooey? And didn't they have some collaborations that didn't show up down here in the USA?
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Old March 6, 2020, 01:04 AM   #18
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I don't have the know-how or equipment to blue. Although Midway USA video library post's how-too bluing/browning and touch up_ free to watch movies.

If wanting a rifle and not a carbine? Have a professional store front Gun Smith do the change out as there are many barrel to receiver factors (measurements and tight truing tolerances) needed that most Apprentice home shop individual's may not be familiar with or how to accomplish >such machining technique's .
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Old March 7, 2020, 11:20 AM   #19
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I'd not spend a lot of money on that rifle. 18.5" barrel is going to be a noisy flame thrower in .270 Win. Stock is not factory original, probably an old Fajen or Bishop stock looking at the grip, cheek piece, and recoil pad.

I'd buy a duracoat kit, if it shoots well enough to keep. That'll let you protect the metal and it's a reasonably durable finish that can be touched up if needed. A little time with a rasp and sand paper can shape the stock into something more traditional with Winchester lines. Or leave as is with just a cleanup and apply a finish to the wood.

As is the rifle he in the US would be worth about $200-250, and with a refinished stock and Duracoat would be worth maybe $400ish. The old post 64 push feed action while a really decent action, isn't the action most people look for to make anything out of. Depending on the shape of your 190 you traded, I'd guess you lost a little on the deal. Unless you needed a big game hunting rifle, then you did okay.
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Old March 17, 2020, 07:36 PM   #20
Canadianstrom
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Thanks Every One for your replies.

I've shot a box and a half through the gun, its done pretty darn good. I'm hoping to tighten up the groups with free floating the barrel, maybe different hand loads. I put a Tasco World Class 4-16/40 scope on, oiled the stock. Bolt works great.
I'm still hoping to find a best guess for what it was originally, a M70 , M70A, Sears ... I've posted to Winchester Owners forum.
FYI the photo is a screen grab of a slow motion video taken on IphoneX, slightly enhanced but the fire ball is not photoshopped.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_2171s.jpg (198.4 KB, 19 views)

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Old March 18, 2020, 08:25 AM   #21
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I'm pretty sure it's just a M70, if it was a Sears rifle it would look like the one in this link. It would have the Sears roll marks on the barrel instead if the Winchester like you have. I own a few Winchester rifles and I've never seen a Model 70A stamped on the barrel, I've seen Model 670A, B, and C roll stamps.
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Old March 18, 2020, 01:30 PM   #22
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You show the anti-bind bolt which I think came out in the upgrades of 1968.
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