New Walther CCP

[IMightBeWrong]

Just found this article on my facebook feed:

http://www.mrcolionnoir.com/news/new...#comment-16665

I'm pretty excited, this looks like it's going to be a really nice little single stack!

Anybody else seen this yet?

[TunnelRat]

Hadn't seen it at all, thanks for posting. Of course there is the PPS too.

[IMightBeWrong]

Of course! But I've always wished they'd add the PPQ style grip to the PPS. This is somewhat of the answer it seems. Only thing I would like to see changed is the thumb safety being gone, but that's something plenty of people will also enjoy having.

[TunnelRat]

PPQ style grip is just fatter. I always thought slim was the goal with CCP.

Didn't see the safety. Big no for me though I guess that is what makes it different from the PPS.

[carguychris]

Here's the official link on Walther's website.

http://www.carl-walther.de/cw.php?la...2&product=1975

Anyone heard any word on the MSRP?

[IMightBeWrong]

It seems to me to be a more direct competitor to the Shield with it's layout than the PPS. I'm wondering if it will come to market at a lower price than the PPS as well.

[TunnelRat]

I give them credit for at least releasing new product, and relatively quickly unlike some *cough HK*.

[Uncle Malice]

Wow. That should be a nice one! I might be interested.

[mburmaster]

If I could make one I would make it the size of the PPS, handle and trigger of the PPQ, and keep the magazine paddle release.

[Fishbed77]

The important question is whether this gun is made by Walther or Umarex.

If it is an Umarex product, my reply is, "No thanks."

[btmj]

I am puzzled... I read through the Walther website, and I am trying to understand the difference between this CCP and the PPS. I carry a PPS and consider it quite fine, I think very highly of it.

The CCP is a bit larger than the PPS in every direction, most notably in terms of width. It has the same magazine capacity. It has a manual safety, whereas the PPS does not.

So is that it? A single stack 9mm that is slightly bigger than the PPS and has a manual safety?

[kcub]

no paddle = meh

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by btmj

I am puzzled... I am trying to understand the difference between this CCP and the PPS... The CCP is a bit larger than the PPS in every direction, most notably in terms of width... So is that it? A single stack 9mm that is slightly bigger than the PPS and has a manual safety?

My hunch is that it's designed to be less expensive to manufacture, thus allowing Walther to lower the MSRP for budget-conscious American buyers.

Originally Posted by Fishbed77

The important question is whether this gun is made by Walther or Umarex.

Hence, the $64,000 question.

[Bart Noir]

This is way more than just a single stack PPQ.

From Walther:

The innovative SoftCoil system operates on a gas delayed blowback principle, that allows a significantly reduced recoil and results in easy racking of the slide.

This is like another version of the HK P7 gas system, going by the above words. I just have to get over to a Walther forum right away to learn more.

Bart Noir

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by Bart Noir

This is like another version of the HK P7 gas system, going by the above words.

D'oh, I missed that! I guess this is what I get for skimming the fine print and concentrating on the technical specs.

Also, from the website...

Moreover, the polygonal barrel does not dip downwards, which considerably reduces the vertical motion of the pistol and improves the precision.

I presume this means that the pistol has a fixed barrel, like the new Remington R51.

However...

Finally, the pistol can only be stripped if it is decocked, and a stripping aid is supplied in each package.

(emphasis mine)

I hope this doesn't mean it requires a stupid little easy-to-lose proprietary takedown tool like the PK380...

[IMightBeWrong]

It can probably be taken down with a trigger pull if it just needs de cocking. The tool probably just provides an alternative method.

[barnbwt]

"It can probably be taken down with a trigger pull if it just needs de cocking. The tool probably just provides an alternative method."

Then again, 'youmightbewrong' (sorry, couldn't resist ). They do say stripping aid rather than "tool," so perhaps it's merely a assist rather than facilitator. But the HK requires a special tool for service (cleaning, to be specific, which is very critical maintenance in a gas delays system), and the Steyr GB was supposedly very difficult to clean as well. I do hope Walther's solved the previous compromise with these designs, where design simplicity is traded for service and logistical complexity (special cleaning and ammo considerations)

TCB

[Fishbed77]

A photo posted over at Waltherforums.com indicates that this pistol carries the Cologne (Umarex) proofmark, and not the Ulm (actual Walther factory) proofmark. Judging by every other Umarex product posing as a Walther (P22, SP22, new .22 PPK/S, etc.), I would not anticipate the quality of a real Walther pistol (P99, PPQ, PPS).

My interest just went to zero.

[Mike Irwin]

And people say that the Remington R51 is ugly?

Holy creeping crap!

[carguychris]

A few thoughts after poring over the Walther website and the discussion on the Walther Forum...

One of the pictures on Walther website shows a front 3/4 view. Note the lack of a guide rod. The pistol uses a recoil spring surrounding the barrel, like an FN Browning 1910 or 1922. The chamber under the dust cover contains a gas piston that momentarily holds the slide closed on firing.

Factory and forum pictures leave me a little stumped regarding how the pistol is disassembled; however, I do NOT believe it uses an obnoxious rotating key like the PK380, as there is no obvious place for the key to go, unless it's on the underside of the pistol, which I admittedly haven't seen. That said, I surmise that the rectangular feature under the LH slide stop is a takedown button; if so, it probably requires considerable force to actuate, and the "aid" may be some sort of tool that makes it easier to depress the button without scratching anything.

On the other hand...

Originally Posted by barnbwt

...the HK [P7] requires a special tool for service (cleaning, to be specific, which is very critical maintenance in a gas delays system), and the Steyr GB was supposedly very difficult to clean as well. I do hope Walther's solved the previous compromise with these designs, where design simplicity is traded for service and logistical complexity (special cleaning and ammo considerations)

Schematic pictures on the Walther Forum show a gas port that is drilled straight down through the gas cylinder and capped with a plate. If(!) the plate is removable, the gas port could be cleaned with a very small brush or a pipe cleaner.

Perhaps the "aid" assists in removing the plate... maybe.

...Or not. This is educated guesswork at best.

I'll note that both the HK P7 and Steyr GB have a reputation for being fussy about ammo; they supposedly run like a top when they're fed what they like, but consistently choke on other loads. It will be interesting to see if Walther has this problem licked. OTOH I suspect that the CCP will NOT be happy with extended use of non-jacketed cast lead bullets!

[kinoons]

I'll keep my PPS, thanks....


An aside -- I've never had any issues with my P7M8 and any 9mm loads; it eats anything I feed it.

[Mike Irwin]

"I've never had any issues with my P7M8 and any 9mm loads; it eats anything I feed it."

Same here, although I've never tried to feed it lead reloads simply because it looks as if cleaning the gasport might be a bit of a chore.

[carguychris]

The discussions I've read about cycling problems with the P7 were mostly focused on 135-147gr bullets, particularly the relatively low-pressure reloads used by some competitive shooters.

The theory seems to be that the P7 was designed for relatively hot loads using light bullets (100-115gr), since these were predominant in the early 1980's. Compared to these loads, low-pressure 147gr loads generate lots of bolt thrust but little gas pressure, and the bullet takes a relatively long time to leave the barrel; this supposedly results in excessive slide velocity and misfeeds.

Mandatory disclaimer: I don't personally own a P7, and I don't know anyone who has experienced these problems firsthand.