muzzle loader ? - Page 5

Pahoo · October 27, 2015, 10:28 AM

Quote:

I bought a CVA brass powder flask with a 30 gr tube, the problem is it only dispenses 27 to 28 grains not the 30 it is supposed to. Is it defective or this just the way they are, not real accurate ?

Reading between the lines, it looks like you are loading directly from the flask but I could be wrong. There is a safety rule out there that warns us about doing so. In all honesty, there are times when many of "us" do just that. I have done it but not as a rule and I won't teach it. Now then BP and it's replacements are very forgiving and being a few grains off will have little or no effect on consistent shooting. I really would not give it much thought. .....

Be Safe !!!

rebs · October 27, 2015, 01:21 PM

I bought this flask off ebay. In the ad is staes CVA and country of origin United States and shows the CVA logo on the picture of the flask. Upon looking closer there is no CVA emblem on the flask and is is stamped Taiwan on the bottom. I am thinking this is a Taiwan knock off and not a genuine CVA flask. It a shame people selling on ebay have to resort to this type of trickery to sell junk.

Hawg · October 27, 2015, 02:05 PM

Mine is 35+ years old and has a CVA logo on it but doesn't say where it was made. CVA doesn't make anything. They are importers so it wouldn't surprise me for them to be made in Tiawan.

Pahoo · October 27, 2015, 03:46 PM

Quote:

I am thinking this is a Taiwan knock off and not a genuine CVA flask.

rebs
I have a number of these flasks and some are fairly old. Most are stamped Taiwan, two indicate Italy and one not stamped. I also have some Traditions flasks and they are not stamped at all. I do think yours was not represented properly. All the CVA's that I have are swing-gate type, including the small field flasks. ....

The ones you don't see much of, are the Thompsons. .....

Be Safe !!!

rebs · October 27, 2015, 04:10 PM

No Idon't load directly into the barrel, I add the powder into a powder measure. I was under the impression that this flask was going to dump 30 gr so two dumps into the measure would be just right. Not the case. But it still works for me dumping into the measure. I checked with CVA and they no longer make the flask but import it from either Taiwan or India. So much for made in the USA.

I shot today and picked up the patches, the .015 were perfect, a little rough around the edge but no holes or burn marks, the .010 were blown apart with a hole right in the middle. Also groups were tighter with the .015 patches.

rebs · October 27, 2015, 04:43 PM

Quote:

All the CVA's that I have are swing-gate type, including the small field flasks. ....

what does that look like ?

swathdiver · October 27, 2015, 05:34 PM

The reason for the spout coming up short may be because of your finger displacing those extra grains.

Having said that, I have a number of 24 grain spouts and by weight, none of them dispensed the same amount of powder from the same flask, they were all different! Out came the scribe to mark them, problem solved.

Ain't never heard of a Taiwanese flask before, all mine are American, Spanish or Italian.

Hawg · October 27, 2015, 07:03 PM

I don't have a pic of mine but it looks exactly like this one except a lot shinier

As I said before CVA didn't make them. CVA was/is an importer not a manufacturer. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/711...ck-to-top-link

44 Dave · October 27, 2015, 07:57 PM

I have 2 old Colt style, one is a Dixon, and a couple of adjustable measures, I would be glad if they threw within 2 grains of the marking.
I soldered a small extension of brass tube on one spout to get the charge I wanted for my .36 Navies.

rebs · October 28, 2015, 01:11 PM

The bullet seater end on my ramrod marks and deforms the lead ball, is there any place to get an end that will seat the ball without deforming it ?

**4V50 Gary** · October 28, 2015, 06:10 PM

Rebs - not that I'm aware of. You can have one made or use a cylinder loader. However, that ram on the cylinder loader must conform with the shape of your projectile lest it becomes deformed during the loading process.

mehavey · October 28, 2015, 09:02 PM

There's no reason this 54cal jag design wouldn't reasonably provide a non-marring surface for seating of a 58 ball.
http://www.amazon.com/Traditions-Per.../dp/B000N8JV04

Hawg · October 28, 2015, 10:54 PM

A patched ball shouldn't require enough force to load that it deforms the ball. It really doesn't matter if it's deformed on the front. As long as the rear isn't deformed it wont affect accuracy

rebs · October 29, 2015, 06:07 AM

The rod I have leaves a round indentation in the ball caused the edge of the seater. Its like the concave is too deep and only the edge hits the ball.

I tried a .010 patch and the ball seated easily but the entire center of the patch was gone leaving only the outer edge after I fired it and picked up the patch. I shot with a .015 patch and it stayed intact with no hole or burning. But the ball seats quite hard with the thicker patch and that is when the seater marks up the ball. Which patch would you use ?

Hawg · October 29, 2015, 08:39 AM

What are you making patches out of and what are you lubing them with?

mehavey · October 29, 2015, 08:52 AM

Use the patch/ball combo that:
(A) Loads "smoothly" stiff in a lightly (1X) swabbed barrel
(B) Doesn't burn [or cut] through

Spit is more than good enough lube.
Nothing more exotic needed.
(7:1 water/NAPA cutting oil [or Ballistol] blotted/dried if you must)

In other words, you are there.
As to seating jag, use the one already mentioned above:
http://www.amazon.com/Traditions-Per.../dp/B000N8JV04

rebs · October 30, 2015, 08:30 AM

I am using pre lubed patches from Cabelas. The round balls are Hornady .570 at 278 gr. Why did the .010 patches only have the outer ring and the middle was completely gone after shooting ? They didn't look burned. The .015 are harder to seat but they are still whole after shooting.

mehavey · October 30, 2015, 09:04 AM

I have a Pedersoli 45 Missouri Rvr Hawken that loves 0.010" muslin patches -- but it has shallow grooves.

Deep grooves (which are the norm in everything else I shoot) will cut those thin patches under firing
pressure/acceleration, and once breached -- burn at the circumferential cut areas to leave a hole.

Tinbucket · November 1, 2015, 08:46 PM

I had a Buffalo Hunter, in .58 caliber. It was really nice walnut and checkered wrist, until someone stole it in July 76.
I have never seen another one.
Barrel was about 28 inches I think.
Had a real nice crown so loading balls would have been real easy.
It was intended for minnies though.
I liked it a lot. I shot a couple deer with it.
back then I used Crisco on the bullet groves and a bit in the hollow rear of bullet.
I was told this made the fouling softer and easier to reload.
I don't know about .58 muzzle loaders in general but that gun was accurate.
I practiced by shooting walnuts off a tree in back yard. No houses behind us, then for miles.
I think it is a great round. Everyone tried to tell me I needed a .50.
I wondered if it wasn't because of recoil.
The barrel on my gun was round and good steel and not as heavy as an octagon nor as thick as I've seen some. It was blued and polished and finely finished wood.

rebs · November 7, 2015, 05:33 AM

I got the clean out screw out. After cleaning the barrel with soap and water I took the boiling water from the tea kettle and poured it through the barrel. The barrel was so hot I had to use a pot holder to handle it. I tried removing the small screw and it came right out. I cleaned in there with a pipe cleaner greased the threads and put the screw back in.

mehavey · November 7, 2015, 08:53 AM

Cool...

(and now it will come out w/ relative ease each cleaning session)

hint: keep a little box (cap box lid) on your table and put the screw in it when cleaning (so it doesn't "disappear")

rebs · November 7, 2015, 09:37 AM

I would like to find a hex head screw that will fit in the hole. That screw sure is small

mehavey · November 7, 2015, 01:16 PM

Take it to any [good] hardware store and they
will match the thread (most likely metric)

October 27, 2015, 05:34 PM	#107
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	The reason for the spout coming up short may be because of your finger displacing those extra grains. Having said that, I have a number of 24 grain spouts and by weight, none of them dispensed the same amount of powder from the same flask, they were all different! Out came the scribe to mark them, problem solved. Ain't never heard of a Taiwanese flask before, all mine are American, Spanish or Italian. __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

October 28, 2015, 01:11 PM	#110
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	bullet seater The bullet seater end on my ramrod marks and deforms the lead ball, is there any place to get an end that will seat the ball without deforming it ?

October 28, 2015, 06:10 PM	#111
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Rebs - not that I'm aware of. You can have one made or use a cylinder loader. However, that ram on the cylinder loader must conform with the shape of your projectile lest it becomes deformed during the loading process. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 30, 2015, 09:04 AM	#118
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	I have a Pedersoli 45 Missouri Rvr Hawken that loves 0.010" muslin patches -- but it has shallow grooves. Deep grooves (which are the norm in everything else I shoot) will cut those thin patches under firing pressure/acceleration, and once breached -- burn at the circumferential cut areas to leave a hole. Last edited by mehavey; October 30, 2015 at 02:20 PM.

November 1, 2015, 08:46 PM	#119
Tinbucket Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2015 Posts: 355	muzzle loader I had a Buffalo Hunter, in .58 caliber. It was really nice walnut and checkered wrist, until someone stole it in July 76. I have never seen another one. Barrel was about 28 inches I think. Had a real nice crown so loading balls would have been real easy. It was intended for minnies though. I liked it a lot. I shot a couple deer with it. back then I used Crisco on the bullet groves and a bit in the hollow rear of bullet. I was told this made the fouling softer and easier to reload. I don't know about .58 muzzle loaders in general but that gun was accurate. I practiced by shooting walnuts off a tree in back yard. No houses behind us, then for miles. I think it is a great round. Everyone tried to tell me I needed a .50. I wondered if it wasn't because of recoil. The barrel on my gun was round and good steel and not as heavy as an octagon nor as thick as I've seen some. It was blued and polished and finely finished wood.

October 27, 2015, 01:21 PM	#102
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I bought this flask off ebay. In the ad is staes CVA and country of origin United States and shows the CVA logo on the picture of the flask. Upon looking closer there is no CVA emblem on the flask and is is stamped Taiwan on the bottom. I am thinking this is a Taiwan knock off and not a genuine CVA flask. It a shame people selling on ebay have to resort to this type of trickery to sell junk.

October 27, 2015, 02:05 PM	#103
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Mine is 35+ years old and has a CVA logo on it but doesn't say where it was made. CVA doesn't make anything. They are importers so it wouldn't surprise me for them to be made in Tiawan.

October 27, 2015, 04:10 PM	#105
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	No Idon't load directly into the barrel, I add the powder into a powder measure. I was under the impression that this flask was going to dump 30 gr so two dumps into the measure would be just right. Not the case. But it still works for me dumping into the measure. I checked with CVA and they no longer make the flask but import it from either Taiwan or India. So much for made in the USA. I shot today and picked up the patches, the .015 were perfect, a little rough around the edge but no holes or burn marks, the .010 were blown apart with a hole right in the middle. Also groups were tighter with the .015 patches.

October 27, 2015, 07:03 PM	#108
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I don't have a pic of mine but it looks exactly like this one except a lot shinier As I said before CVA didn't make them. CVA was/is an importer not a manufacturer. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/711...ck-to-top-link

October 27, 2015, 07:57 PM	#109
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	I have 2 old Colt style, one is a Dixon, and a couple of adjustable measures, I would be glad if they threw within 2 grains of the marking. I soldered a small extension of brass tube on one spout to get the charge I wanted for my .36 Navies.

October 28, 2015, 09:02 PM	#112
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	There's no reason this 54cal jag design wouldn't reasonably provide a non-marring surface for seating of a 58 ball. http://www.amazon.com/Traditions-Per.../dp/B000N8JV04

October 28, 2015, 10:54 PM	#113
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	A patched ball shouldn't require enough force to load that it deforms the ball. It really doesn't matter if it's deformed on the front. As long as the rear isn't deformed it wont affect accuracy

October 29, 2015, 06:07 AM	#114
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	The rod I have leaves a round indentation in the ball caused the edge of the seater. Its like the concave is too deep and only the edge hits the ball. I tried a .010 patch and the ball seated easily but the entire center of the patch was gone leaving only the outer edge after I fired it and picked up the patch. I shot with a .015 patch and it stayed intact with no hole or burning. But the ball seats quite hard with the thicker patch and that is when the seater marks up the ball. Which patch would you use ?

October 29, 2015, 08:39 AM	#115
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	What are you making patches out of and what are you lubing them with?

October 29, 2015, 08:52 AM	#116
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	Use the patch/ball combo that: (A) Loads "smoothly" stiff in a lightly (1X) swabbed barrel (B) Doesn't burn [or cut] through Spit is more than good enough lube. Nothing more exotic needed. (7:1 water/NAPA cutting oil [or Ballistol] blotted/dried if you must) In other words, you are there. As to seating jag, use the one already mentioned above: http://www.amazon.com/Traditions-Per.../dp/B000N8JV04

October 30, 2015, 08:30 AM	#117
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I am using pre lubed patches from Cabelas. The round balls are Hornady .570 at 278 gr. Why did the .010 patches only have the outer ring and the middle was completely gone after shooting ? They didn't look burned. The .015 are harder to seat but they are still whole after shooting.

November 7, 2015, 05:33 AM	#120
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I got the clean out screw out. After cleaning the barrel with soap and water I took the boiling water from the tea kettle and poured it through the barrel. The barrel was so hot I had to use a pot holder to handle it. I tried removing the small screw and it came right out. I cleaned in there with a pipe cleaner greased the threads and put the screw back in.

November 7, 2015, 08:53 AM	#121
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	Cool... (and now it will come out w/ relative ease each cleaning session) hint: keep a little box (cap box lid) on your table and put the screw in it when cleaning (so it doesn't "disappear")

November 7, 2015, 09:37 AM	#122
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I would like to find a hex head screw that will fit in the hole. That screw sure is small

November 7, 2015, 01:16 PM	#123
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	Take it to any [good] hardware store and they will match the thread (most likely metric)