This is Why You Should Research Your Firearms Instructors

[hartcreek]

Now I just lost a half hour of my life watching all those junk videos........

[Pond, James Pond]

I dunno. Credit where credit is due.

I think he may have something in that vid. I mean he was able to "put enough targets on round" at about 1'40".

If you can hit a bullet with a steel-plate, I think you're pretty skilled.

He also managed to make rolling onto the floor look like pouring cake dough into a baking tray. That is quite a spectacle.

[mete]

'Hondo roll' ? speaking as a rally fan are you sure you don't mean " Honda Roll" ??
Rally on boys !!!

[OnTheFly]

Originally Posted by FrankenMauser

You do realize that the first video was a joke, right?

And the "rebuttal" was just him trolling the people that freaked out about it.

If the first video by Dallas Lloyd is a ruse, it is a very well done one. Most people have to actually be that dumb to make such a convincing video. What "rebuttal" are you talking about? I couldn't find anything in the comments to the YouTube video. If you had a link to a "rebuttal", it would be interesting to read.

I went to his website and he has another 2 or 3 videos which, when you click on the link, say they are unavailable. Odd. Maybe just a coincidence, or maybe they were as bad as this one.

Fly

[Sparks1957]

Oh my... I watched that first video and didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

[FireForged]

I remember karate and kung-fu being taught on every street corner in American back in the 70's. Its just like that now with tactical trainers.. some are good and some are not. I simply would not accept instruction blindly from anyone, no matter the subject.

A person can teach me how to make a pizza even if they have never made one themselves but if a person is going to teach me about issues that may impact my personal safety and the safety of others, they are going to have to do that from a position of real occupational competence.

[g.willikers]

OntheFly is right, that vid is ugly. Especially near the end with the 3 monkeys playing at clearing. Noticed the first guy in and then he stands with his back in the doorway. There would be at least 2 dead in the team.

That's why they're taking the course.
To find and correct their mistakes before it counts.

[fastbolt]

I remember karate and kung-fu being taught on every street corner in American back in the 70's. Its just like that now with tactical trainers.. some are good and some are not. I simply would not accept instruction blindly from anyone, no matter the subject.

A person can teach me how to make a pizza even if they have never made one themselves but if a person is going to teach me about issues that may impact my personal safety and the safety of others, they are going to have to do that from a position of real occupational competence.

My thoughts, exactly.

Just as the 70's were getting underway, there were any number of dojos/schools that seemingly turned into belt mills, and some of the "results" went off and started their own schools, or even "styles". No shortage of guys promoting each other, appearing with rank certificates from unknown styles, or letters from "overseas" elevating them in rank, etc.

I've always felt that being a firearms instructor ought to be an apprenticeship program. Something involving the immediate oversight and monitoring by an existing instructor who has already demonstrated themselves to be a knowledgeable, experienced and successful instructor. Someone who can continue the teaching of a newly minted instructor, developing their ability to actually recognize and properly diagnose problems, and then prioritize relevant corrections (not trying to fix so many "problems" at once that it overwhelms the student).

Not just parrot back names of techniques or hand out generalized directions to "just do it this way" (without being able to explain and demonstrate why).

Unfortunately, there's a lot of agencies who have needed an instructor (either singular for the agency, or in addition to one or more others), so someone got sent to a firearms instructors class, and when they came back "they were one".

Instructors need to continue learning, and not just to reinforce keeping themselves "elevated" to their "ranking". Rediscovering new insights into creating an effective foundation in other shooters (and themselves), as well as providing subtle (and simply adopted) tweaks and refinements in the existing skills of others, ought to be a continuing goal.

While it's always pleasant to have a line staff shooter or another instructor come up after a session and thank you for revealing something they could immediately use to their benefit, the best (most meaningful, personally) feedback is when someone you've helped comes back after a shooting incident, and simply comments that "the training works".

I've been spending a lot more time trying to develop and bootstrap the teaching skillsets of younger, lesser experienced instructors, hoping it carries through to the "students".

On the other hand, I haven't taken on a private student in the arts for at least 15 years.

[1-DAB]

my better half went to a NRA Basic Pistol Course. all day affair, $75. reasonable, full of good info, even shot a pistol and hit the target.

it strikes me that many of these 'higher' level courses are primarily money makers for the instructors, and whether or not the students learn something useful is secondary. filling hours with dumping rounds down range is pretty easy, after all, the students bring their own ammo.

but how does one separate the good from the bad? that's the question. there is no accrediting organization as there is in higher education.

[Model12Win]

Well if it is in fact a joke, he sure had me fooled.

And what would be the point of this joke? To totally discredit him and make him look like a clown?? Because that's exactly what he accomplished.

[Dragline45]

Hondo roll' ? speaking as a rally fan are you sure you don't mean " Honda Roll" ??

Haha no, Hondo is an old movie with John Wayne where he would do this move going from a roll into a kneeling shooting position.

[Double Naught Spy]

I thought it meant Samuel L. Jackson in SWAT (2003) whose character was Hondo.

[OnTheFly]

Originally Posted by g.willikers

That's why they're taking the course.
To find and correct their mistakes before it counts.

I would buy that explanation...IF those three yahoos were not THE INSTRUCTORS THEMSELVES. Their instructors dress in all the tacticool black costumes, though I would bet a fair sum of money that 99.9% of them do not have any LEO or military experience. And especially no real life experience that would have given them the background to train people in clearing a room.

Here are a couple more videos of American Defensive Enterprise's instructors showing off their super ninja skillz.

https://youtu.be/BIP0cndaF0E

https://youtu.be/2vM1v_WVJWA

Fly

[g.willikers]

Could be they were just playing to the camera, trying to impress prospective students.
Figuring they didn't need to be acurate, just cool looking.
Maybe.
Maybe not.

[OnTheFly]

Originally Posted by g.willikers

Could be they were just playing to the camera, trying to impress prospective students.
Figuring they didn't need to be acurate, just cool looking.
Maybe.
Maybe not.

Could be, but since these were promotional videos to sell their services, and the owner claims to have taught CIA, SEALs, etc., I don't think they would put out such tripe unless this is exactly what they teach. Hell, he could have hired a few off duty LEOs from a SWAT team to film for an hour and posted that in his YouTube commercial...but he apparently thought what he posted was good sales material.

Fly

[Shadi Khalil]

Watch the rebuttal video, there is no mention of the tacifool move being a joke. The only joke seems to be Dallas himself..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B7JLwdmrq4

[Auto5]

Instead of watching any more of those videos, I'm going back to studying "The Matrix".

[fastbolt]

Instead of watching any more of those videos, I'm going back to studying "The Matrix".

Don't forget Equilibrium.

[Double Naught Spy]

Watch the rebuttal video, there is no mention of the tacifool move being a joke. The only joke seems to be Dallas himself..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B7JLwdmrq4

Yeah, that is why I posted it above, but nobody seems to be watching it. No, he wasn't intending it as a joke. He even presented his VFW membership card to show that he was in the military, then his VA card, claiming he was medically discharged, which is maybe why he falls out of the truck like a chunk of sausage from a sausage extruder.

The tactic shown was just plain silly, but he seems very serious about it. Contrary to the claim of at least one of the Youtube evaluative videos about it and to the OP, Dallas did not throw his gun on the ground before extruding out of the truck. There is a big difference between throwing and laying and he laid his gun down on the ground. Personally, that would seem to be a stupid idea, to intentionally lose control of your weapon during a gun battle.

I think what I find most disturbing is that he missed two shots from the ground during slow fire, prone, two-handed shooting.

[OnTheFly]

Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy

Yeah, that is why I posted it above, but nobody seems to be watching it.

Sorry DNS...I completely missed your post. I watched the video. As others said, his explanation didn't quite do it.

Fly

[walks with gun]

It makes more sense now after watching the video a second time. I tried practicing this myself, but after numerous sprains, broken bones and property damage, I finally realized I should put the truck in park FIRST. What happens if your truck does not have a back seat, do you have to tip your seat up and crawl through behind.

[g.willikers]

No, no.
Putting the truck in Park prevents it being used for rolling cover.
By leaving it in Drive, he could crawl under it, grab the frame and get carried to safety, while firing to both sides.
Of course that could have been accomplished even better from the driver's seat.
But where's the cool factor with that?

[doofus47]

g.willikers

No, no.
Putting the truck in Park ....
But where's the cool factor with that?

Hey G. I can't find any fault with that theory. Why don't you shoot a quick vid and post it to youtube for us?

[g.willikers]

^^^
Anyone got one of them tall trucks ya' can just about walk under?
I don't get low and crawl so good anymore.

[Venom1956]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDoRmT0iRic

you guys need better trucks. MPG isnt great but i can pull just about anything.