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April 8, 2019, 11:43 PM | #76 |
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The militarization of civilian law enforcement in the United States and the widely held attitude that one’s top priority above all else is to get home to the warm embrace of one’s significant other have made a mess out of what it means to be a peace officer these days.
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April 9, 2019, 10:33 AM | #77 | |
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And in spite of the apparent contradiction, at the same time, being a nice guy because even that attitude can increase the safety of the officers, in general. --Wag--
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"Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein. |
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April 9, 2019, 01:32 PM | #78 | |
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There is a grain of truth in that lack of respect that has been earned by the LEO community whether you agree with it or not. I have the utmost respect for LEO's and it is a career field most of my comrades from the service have entered. We all noticed the same militarization of LE after the release of so much GWOT Military Surplus Equipment to LE departments in our joint training exercises. It was quite the topic after such training and many laughs were had but it is obvious it has become an issue in our society. As a professional, to deny that grain of truth with defensive excuses, to not recognize the pendulum does swing, and that we need to be in the middle is simply not productive. |
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April 9, 2019, 05:43 PM | #79 |
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There is no "militarization" happening.. no matter what the police look like or what equipment they use.. their role in society is nothing like that of a soldier. The investigations into crime, "apprehension" of criminals and other methods of committing offenders to the criminal justice system is NOT warfighting. The WAR on drugs has never been an actual "War" on drugs. Its just word-play. The quasi-military structure of police forces does not translate into military operations or military mandates, its simply not militarization.
Militarization of Police is a buzz word used by the media.. its all about nuance and less about substance. Police do not serve a military function in this Country and the Military do not perform LEO operations outside of their own auspices except in very limited and unique circumstances. If the Police were being Militarized they would essentially be soldiers under Federal control who carry out law enforcement functions. They have that in other Countries but that is not how it works here. I saw some guys who looked like State surveyors on the side of road and one of them was driving a Humvee set up with some sort of electronic gear on a small trailer it was pulling. Does that mean that surveyors are now militarized? ::eye roll::
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Life is a web woven by necessity and chance... Last edited by FireForged; April 9, 2019 at 05:58 PM. |
April 9, 2019, 08:02 PM | #80 | ||||||||||
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April 9, 2019, 08:03 PM | #81 | |
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April 9, 2019, 09:52 PM | #82 | |||||
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Davidsog, You have managed to keep both eyes wide open over the last few decades like few can. I’m quite impressed. Kudos to you, sir.
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April 9, 2019, 09:57 PM | #83 |
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Oh, and...
"THE ORACLE HAS SPOKEN". (Just kidding). |
April 10, 2019, 06:30 AM | #84 | |
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While I won't go as far as some of Leaf's comments (I must have been blinking), whether you dislike the phrasing of militarization or not, the proliferation of military level equipment by law enforcement seems pretty hard to dismiss offhand. Certainly some threats have risen in more recent years that require certain equipment, but liquidation of MRAPs and the like seems a bit much (who doesn't want DHS money). Sure some stories are blown way out of proportion, but even at a local level responses can resemble more of a military operation than the days of old. Now obviously no one wants a repeat of events like the Miami FBI shootout or more recently with the Dallas, TX shooting, but there has to be a balance somewhere. My impression is FireForged took issue more with the notion that all police had been federalized towards a chosen enemy. Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk |
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April 10, 2019, 07:25 AM | #85 | |
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April 10, 2019, 07:33 AM | #86 |
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When someone points a gun at me for no good reason(from my point of view), I consider that a threat. I don't give a rat's patoot what sort of clothes that threat is wearing.
I don't commit crimes and don't accept being treated like a criminal. |
April 10, 2019, 07:38 AM | #87 | |
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No, Sir. If you are not a LEO then you drop the weapon to empty your hands and follow LEO commands. That is the only way we as concerned citizens with CCL can function in the event of a mass shooting. |
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April 10, 2019, 09:01 AM | #88 |
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April 10, 2019, 09:20 AM | #89 | |
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There are tens of thousands of LEO departments in this country who act independently from the Military, are not controlled by the military, do not share military mandates, do not carry out a military role or function in society. As long as that is the case, I do not consider the Police to me Militarized. Sure, there are people who want to base their belief of Militarization on optics and visual aesthetics but I am not one of those people.
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Life is a web woven by necessity and chance... Last edited by FireForged; April 10, 2019 at 12:17 PM. |
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April 10, 2019, 02:57 PM | #90 | |
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Ok |
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April 10, 2019, 03:42 PM | #91 | |
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In certain areas, I much appreciated being able to “gear up.” It is the utilization of small team military tactics to apprehend presumed “criminal offenders” that most concerns me. Particularly so when those offenders are so liberally defined to mean just about anyone but them (LEO) and with little regard towards the principles under which this nation was founded, our Bill of Rights, and the US Constitution. And quite frankly, those types of violations are happening far too frequently in our country under the guise of “how dangerous it is out there this day and age” type claims. Back in the seventies and eighties it was not unusual for us to take fire directed at us particularly in our marked patrol cars while driving randomly down highways and interstates. During that same period, as an officer on duty I was involved in no less than six shootings, I was shot twice, and I had no less than a half dozen other occasions where suspects attempted to stab and/or slice me with all manner of pointy and/or edged weapons. You’ll have to forgive me if I’m not impressed about how dangerous it is to be a cop “this day and age.” And now you other folks just stop fighting over my affection. The Oracle loves all his minions equally! |
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April 10, 2019, 04:00 PM | #92 |
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My behavior is such that I have essentially no contact with law enforcement.
If I do,I'm courteous,co-operative,and ,in the setting of the street,"A cockroach who argues with a chicken is always wrong" I'm not anti-cop. I understand cops are human,humans make mistakes. This may be somewhat controversial,but wearing the badge assumes some risk. It comes with the territory. There can be a bias of risk n favor of the officer going home safe at the end of the shift. Its a problem when that bias of risk results in dead civilians who were not presenting a true risk to the LEO. IMO,we have to be very careful about "perceived risk" People have been shot and killed by LEOS for having a cell phone or pop can in their hand. One case was a no-knock warrant on the wrong address.An old man was killed for having a can of pop n his hand. No amount of explaining makes that OK. It does occur that some cops get a little "wound too tight" toward pulling the trigger. I'm talking SOME cops,not all. Its no secret that many LEOs are not shooting enthusiasts and many only shoot to keep minimally qualified. Like pilots and surgeons,remember 49 % of them are below average. I don't know the numbers,but I think its reasonable for illustration purposes to say in the last 10 years we have 10 times more concealed carry permits. If the LEO goes full adrenaline finger on the trigger at the sight of a firearm, innocent people can get killed. YES! I agree that as a armed civilian,it IS my responsibility to not pose a threat to LEOs. I can help the cops to not shoot me. When I see an armed LEO,I don't see a threat,. The lawful concealed or open carry civilian is carrying for essentially the same reason the LEO is and represents no more threat than the LEO does. And the civilian is just as lawfully and legitimately armed as the LEO is. Once again,I see no threat in an armed LEO. Concealed and open carry are legit and common enough its time LEO's not necessariy see the armed citizen as any more of a threat than another LEO. Last edited by HiBC; April 10, 2019 at 04:13 PM. |
April 10, 2019, 04:17 PM | #93 |
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HiBC, to be honest with you I see nothing in your post that I would disagree with other than when "I" see a cop I don't automatically assume I'm dealing with a good guy/gal. What happens next helps me to make that determination and as often as not that determination isn't going to necessarily be definitive towards that particular LEO.
But to be consistent with the initial focus of this thread, DO NOT be holding your firearm in your hand when the cops show up. Additionally, I do not believe in mandated training to own and carry a firearm. I will say however it is a good idea to get some unless you want to spend many years in prison or an early demise. Dang it, I forgot again. So says The Oracle. |
April 10, 2019, 04:53 PM | #94 | |||
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Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness |
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April 10, 2019, 06:16 PM | #95 |
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As sure as elbow and knee pads on a modern day tunnel rat, you don't have to live paranoid to always be cautious.
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April 10, 2019, 06:40 PM | #96 | ||
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I am not speaking to the merits or demerits of police periodicals, I am speaking to the comments made in this thread. Quote:
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April 10, 2019, 06:50 PM | #97 | |
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Were you ever a peace officer, sir. |
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April 10, 2019, 06:58 PM | #98 |
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"As a firearm carrier, how can one consider taking a shot without knowing absolutely what one is shooting at"
What? If my gun is drawn, someone was about to cause me serious personal harm. Or is in my home. What the hell are you doing? Of course you should be 100% sure. |
April 10, 2019, 07:01 PM | #99 |
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Hounddog, with if it were the maid showing up early for work?
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April 10, 2019, 07:08 PM | #100 | |
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Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk Last edited by TunnelRat; April 10, 2019 at 07:59 PM. |
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