Uberti cattleman issue

Cessnaflyer · January 7, 2019, 12:01 AM

I have a Uberti El patron which I'm having issues with. About 80% of the time it works great. However occasionally the cylinder doesn't lock in place which is causing the firing pin to strike on the rim of the cartridge or cylinder. Any advice would be appreciated.

45 Dragoon · January 7, 2019, 02:18 AM

In order of possibility, it could be:
Late timing (bolt drop)
Weak or cracked bolt spring (could be under sprung if it's a wire spring in your E.P.)
Hand spring binding in its passage in the frame (could be bent compression spring)
Locking notches may have metal peening (because of ill timing) and bolt no longer fits
Bolt may have "taper" fitting (sometimes done for quick "adjusting") prob.not on an EP though

Should be one of those

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

Cessnaflyer · January 7, 2019, 03:44 PM

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I have ruled out the bolt spring and compression spring. I will read into how to check the timing.
Eric

Driftwood Johnson · January 8, 2019, 01:31 AM

Howdy

Another possibility is a light hand spring.

I have a Colt I bought used and when I first got it I could get the cylinder to throw by anytime I tried. The hand actually exerts a little bit of braking pressure against the ratchet teeth. It the hand spring is too light, the cylinder can throw by (rotate too far) under the right circumstances.

If I started to cock the hammer briskly, but hesitated half way through, the cylinder would rotate too far. Then when I completed cocking the hammer the bolt would pop up, but the cylinder had already rotated slightly too far so the bolt would not be able to pop up into the locking slot on the cylinder.

Bending the hand spring slightly to increase the pressure it put on the cylinder ratchet teeth solved the problem.

You may hear of guys who like their revolvers tuned so fine that you barely hear the ratchet clicking at all when the hand pops from tooth to tooth. I like the ratchet to sing nice and loud if I set the hammer to half cock and spin the cylinder.

No, spinning it like this a few times will not wear anything out, contrary to what you might hear.

45 Dragoon · January 8, 2019, 09:09 AM

That is correct as DJ put it.
In this case, the E.P. has a frame mounted coil and plunger handspring. Not the best setup for Colts intended "braking" effect but definitely an excellent answer for a "won't break" setup!! The original flat handspring moves with the hand (it's mounted on it so it kinda has to!!) so, as the hand moves vertically the attached spring gets compressed more and more - putting on the brakes.
Since a frame mounted handspring is stationary, it has the most mechanical advantage at the beginning of the cycle (where it needs the least) but as the cycle continues, the hand's pivoting attachment to the hammer moves closer to the stationary spring and thus looses most of the advantage (where it should be the most!). This is the main reason for "beauty rings" on Ruger cylinders.
I sort of compromise wîth my own setup by using a larger diameter rod (I call it a pushrod) with a shorter spring with more tension. It works rather well and keeps throw-by (cyl over rotation) at bay.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

jwise · January 10, 2019, 05:53 PM

I’m sorry to hear you are having trouble with your El Patron. I absolutely love mine. It is so smooth and is just a joy to shoot. Mine is chambered in .357 but I mostly shoot .38s through it.

Cessnaflyer · January 11, 2019, 04:14 PM

Driftwood Johnson
Howdy pard. As 45 Dragoon mentioned mine doesn't have a leaf spring like the Colts. I tried tightening the bolt holding the coil spring but to no avail. I found out it was under warranty so I went ahead and sent it back to uberti. I do appreciate the advice.

Jwise
I'm glad yours is working for you. I love mine except for the timing issues. Smooth and super accurate.

January 7, 2019, 12:01 AM	#1
Cessnaflyer Junior Member Join Date: January 6, 2019 Posts: 3	Uberti cattleman issue I have a Uberti El patron which I'm having issues with. About 80% of the time it works great. However occasionally the cylinder doesn't lock in place which is causing the firing pin to strike on the rim of the cartridge or cylinder. Any advice would be appreciated.

January 7, 2019, 02:18 AM	#2
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	In order of possibility, it could be: Late timing (bolt drop) Weak or cracked bolt spring (could be under sprung if it's a wire spring in your E.P.) Hand spring binding in its passage in the frame (could be bent compression spring) Locking notches may have metal peening (because of ill timing) and bolt no longer fits Bolt may have "taper" fitting (sometimes done for quick "adjusting") prob.not on an EP though Should be one of those Mike www.goonsgunworks.com Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks Last edited by 45 Dragoon; January 7, 2019 at 09:18 AM.

January 7, 2019, 03:44 PM	#3
Cessnaflyer Junior Member Join Date: January 6, 2019 Posts: 3	Thank you for taking the time to respond. I have ruled out the bolt spring and compression spring. I will read into how to check the timing. Eric

January 8, 2019, 01:31 AM	#4
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy Another possibility is a light hand spring. I have a Colt I bought used and when I first got it I could get the cylinder to throw by anytime I tried. The hand actually exerts a little bit of braking pressure against the ratchet teeth. It the hand spring is too light, the cylinder can throw by (rotate too far) under the right circumstances. If I started to cock the hammer briskly, but hesitated half way through, the cylinder would rotate too far. Then when I completed cocking the hammer the bolt would pop up, but the cylinder had already rotated slightly too far so the bolt would not be able to pop up into the locking slot on the cylinder. Bending the hand spring slightly to increase the pressure it put on the cylinder ratchet teeth solved the problem. You may hear of guys who like their revolvers tuned so fine that you barely hear the ratchet clicking at all when the hand pops from tooth to tooth. I like the ratchet to sing nice and loud if I set the hammer to half cock and spin the cylinder. No, spinning it like this a few times will not wear anything out, contrary to what you might hear.

January 8, 2019, 09:09 AM	#5
45 Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2013 Posts: 656	That is correct as DJ put it. In this case, the E.P. has a frame mounted coil and plunger handspring. Not the best setup for Colts intended "braking" effect but definitely an excellent answer for a "won't break" setup!! The original flat handspring moves with the hand (it's mounted on it so it kinda has to!!) so, as the hand moves vertically the attached spring gets compressed more and more - putting on the brakes. Since a frame mounted handspring is stationary, it has the most mechanical advantage at the beginning of the cycle (where it needs the least) but as the cycle continues, the hand's pivoting attachment to the hammer moves closer to the stationary spring and thus looses most of the advantage (where it should be the most!). This is the main reason for "beauty rings" on Ruger cylinders. I sort of compromise wîth my own setup by using a larger diameter rod (I call it a pushrod) with a shorter spring with more tension. It works rather well and keeps throw-by (cyl over rotation) at bay. Mike www.goonsgunworks.com Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

January 10, 2019, 05:53 PM	#6
jwise Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 677	I’m sorry to hear you are having trouble with your El Patron. I absolutely love mine. It is so smooth and is just a joy to shoot. Mine is chambered in .357 but I mostly shoot .38s through it.

January 11, 2019, 04:14 PM	#7
Cessnaflyer Junior Member Join Date: January 6, 2019 Posts: 3	Driftwood Johnson Howdy pard. As 45 Dragoon mentioned mine doesn't have a leaf spring like the Colts. I tried tightening the bolt holding the coil spring but to no avail. I found out it was under warranty so I went ahead and sent it back to uberti. I do appreciate the advice. Jwise I'm glad yours is working for you. I love mine except for the timing issues. Smooth and super accurate.