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Old December 12, 2019, 12:27 PM   #1
ncpatriot
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Federally Controlled Property

I recently started a new job, working a project at a major pharmaceutical company. The boss said we can’t keep firearms in our vehicles because it is an FDA controlled property. I consider this a major 2A infringement, as it disarms me after work as well as the workday. Going back home is not doable most days if I have other places to go in the evening.

Can anyone verify if this is really law or just hype? Chapter &?verse would be great too if you have it handy.

Thanks for any help.
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Old December 12, 2019, 12:37 PM   #2
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Condition of Emplyment

Quote:
Can anyone verify if this is really law or just hype?
May not be a State or Federal law but "certainly; a condition of employment !!!

"Be Safe !!!"
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Old December 12, 2019, 12:42 PM   #3
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Old December 12, 2019, 02:09 PM   #4
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It would not be any different if you were and ACOE employee. They don't allow firearms on their property either (other than hunting arms during hunting seasons).
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Old December 12, 2019, 02:38 PM   #5
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Many bosses enforce company rules by saying “its a federal law” in an attempt to pacify the employee, pass the buck and avoid discussion.

Doesn’t really matter who the progenitor of the rule is, I would advise following the rule. If it’s a federal rule, an employer is allowed to make the rule more stringent but, they can lessen the rule.
The best practice would be: don’t take a firearm anywhere someone doesn’t want it.

Last edited by rickyrick; December 12, 2019 at 03:20 PM.
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Old December 12, 2019, 03:13 PM   #6
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The boss said we can’t keep firearms in our vehicles because it is an FDA controlled property.
What does the FDA say? The boss MAY be right, he may not be.

I knew of a place that DOE leased, to hold training classes in. The parking lot was also a "no gun" zone (though only the building proper was posted at the time).

The parking lot across the street from the Federally leased training building belonged to the Racquet Club. They didn't care.

Find out what the actual regulations are to be certain.
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Old December 12, 2019, 04:29 PM   #7
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The logical place to start would be your boss -- ask him/her what federal law allows the FDA to ban firearms. If he/she doesn't know, go to the company's security department.
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Old December 12, 2019, 04:50 PM   #8
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Choices

I retired from a chemical plant that had no federal connection. However, when we hired in, our procedures manual stated that no firearms were allowed on the property, including the parking lots. It was a condition employment and we all had to sign on the dotted line. You'd be better informed if you can locate this requirement in your plant's procedure manual. If you ask your plant manager, it will raise a red-flag and he will likely follow his CYA program. …..

Quote:
If he/she doesn't know, go to the company's security department.
These folks are primarily contractors and may not be of much help. It makes little difference on your 2-A rights unless you want to go to court. Lots of luck on that one….

At any given point in time, you only have two choices that leads to consequences.

Be Safe !!!
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Old December 12, 2019, 07:43 PM   #9
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Fl has exemptions for no guns allowed. In regular environments, an employer cannot legally prevent you keeping a gun in your car in the employee parking lot. HOWEVER, certain areas are off limits no matter what - a power plant or cruise ship terminal are two examples; so see what YOUR state law has to say about that
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Old December 12, 2019, 08:57 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by FITASC
Fl has exemptions for no guns allowed. In regular environments, an employer cannot legally prevent you keeping a gun in your car in the employee parking lot. HOWEVER, certain areas are off limits no matter what - a power plant or cruise ship terminal are two examples; so see what YOUR state law has to say about that
The OP is in North Carolina, not Florida. What Florida allows or prohibits does not apply. Although Florida enacted a law protecting people's right to keep a firearm in a car while parked on company property, most states have not enacted similar legislation.

In any event, if the boss is correct that the ban stems from federal law, then a state law would not override the federal prohibition.

I wonder if the boss is referring to (and probably misinterpreting) 18 U.S. Code 930. That's a federal law that prohibits possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in federal facilities. IF that's the law the boss refers to, there are two reasons why it may not apply:
  1. 18 USC 930 applies to buildings owned or leased by the federal government, where federal employees are regularly present for work. Even if a pharmaceutical company has federal inspectors on the premises, the federal government (presumably) doesn't own or lease the facility.
  2. The law clearly states that a federal facility is a "building." The prohibition is against guns "in" a "federal facility" (i.e. in the building). 18 USC 930, if properly construed, would not cover the parking lot.
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Old December 12, 2019, 09:04 PM   #11
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If it qualifies as a 'federal facility' and the parking area has controlled access (gated, security checkpoint, etc.), the parking lot is likely also a prohibited area.
But if it is not a federal facility; or is one, but the parking lot is uncontrolled, the law likely does not apply. (At a federal level. State law may differ.)
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Old December 12, 2019, 09:13 PM   #12
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It is not a condition of employment unless it is in writing in the personnel manual, or what ever that document is called there. You can ask to see the personnel manual without saying why. The only reason a condition of employment would not be in the manual is if you have a specific employment contract, where conditions of employment would be stated.
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Old December 13, 2019, 08:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
In regular environments, an employer cannot legally prevent you keeping a gun in your car in the employee parking lot.
Correct but he can certainly fire you if you do..
Quote:
It is not a condition of employment unless it is in writing in the personnel manual, or what ever that document is called there.
Disagree...if the 'boss' says no firearms in this business, then no firearms..if the
business is a private firm. I don't think it need be 'written' down. Kinda like a business, like DisneyLand or Wallmart saying 'no firearms'..NOT illegal but grounds for removal if you choose to break that 'rule'..

For the OP, I'd say go see HR and ask but also, if the OP makes too much noise, he may be looking for a new job. He's brand new...
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Old December 13, 2019, 09:05 AM   #14
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Do some more research on your own. Don't depend on an Internet forum for your legal advice. However, if it is indeed just POLICY and NOT LAW, I know what I would do.

Let me give you a real life example. One of our senior executives have had credible death threats against them and their family because they cracked a multi-million dollar criminal case. We now have armed security. We HAVE "No Gun" signs all over the property. It's known that this executive shoots. What do you think this person is doing? No, I don't think this person's gonna quit a $400K job with stock options.
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Last edited by Onward Allusion; December 13, 2019 at 11:52 AM. Reason: grammar - corrected tense
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Old December 13, 2019, 11:35 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Onward Allusion
We had "No Gun" signs all over the property.
"Had" is past tense. Are you saying that you no longer have "No Guns" signs on the property?
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Old December 13, 2019, 11:52 AM   #16
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^^^
We currently have no-gun signs all over the property.

One thing about being boss, it's easy to break the rules/policies and get away with it. It's life.
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Old December 13, 2019, 03:11 PM   #17
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This is one where you might actually need a lawyer, if you want an accurate answer.

For example: FL law generally protects employee's rights to keep a firearm in a car, but Disney World is an exception because of their licences for explosive production/handling.
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Old December 16, 2019, 07:21 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by raimius View Post
This is one where you might actually need a lawyer, if you want an accurate answer.

For example: FL law generally protects employee's rights to keep a firearm in a car, but Disney World is an exception because of their licences for explosive production/handling.
BUT 'private property' trumps Florida law in this case, no? In spite of a law saying one can EDC or have a gun in your car, if on a 'company' parking lot, if the private business owner's say no, then it's no..NOT against the law but against 'company policy'..and getting fired or disciplined can be a result..
If an employee makes a point of carrying or storing on 'private property', against company policy..pretty sure I know what the result wll be in majority of cases.
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Old December 16, 2019, 08:40 AM   #19
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Perhaps I’m wrong but the question is will you be arrested after your fired. Risk versus reward. Depending on where you travel both to and from work, you may or may not want to risk your job security. Choose your path wisely and good luck.
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Old December 16, 2019, 08:42 AM   #20
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BUT 'private property' trumps Florida law in this case, no?
No. Florida passed a law that specifically protects concealed permit holders who store their firearms in their vehicles while parked on employee parking lots (other than the legally off limits places like post offices, schools, Disney, etc.).
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Old December 17, 2019, 08:09 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Doyle View Post
No. Florida passed a law that specifically protects concealed permit holders who store their firearms in their vehicles while parked on employee parking lots (other than the legally off limits places like post offices, schools, Disney, etc.).
'Protect' as in, protect them from being fired?
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Old December 17, 2019, 09:56 AM   #22
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Quote:
BUT 'private property' trumps Florida law in this case, no? In spite of a law saying one can EDC or have a gun in your car, if on a 'company' parking lot, if the private business owner's say no, then it's no..NOT against the law but against 'company policy'..and getting fired or disciplined can be a result..
If an employee makes a point of carrying or storing on 'private property', against company policy..pretty sure I know what the result wll be in majority of cases.
Incorrect, your employer cannot prohibit you from keeping a gun in your car - as stated there are a few exemptions; those that fall under Homeland Security and the theme parks due to their ridiculous emotional pandering to the Left.
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Old December 17, 2019, 10:12 AM   #23
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'Protect' as in, protect them from being fired?
Correct.
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Old December 18, 2019, 08:03 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Doyle View Post
Correct.
Didn't know that but the OP is in North Carolina...same there?
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Old December 18, 2019, 08:32 AM   #25
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As many have said, if you want to follow the rules, get some legal advice. As already mentioned, you have options. Violating a company policy is different than violating the law. One may get you fired, the other could be serious legal issues. Have I risked keeping a firearm in my vehicle when on a federal military installation? Yes, however I also had those particular firearms registered to use the on-post range. There was some gray area, I made a calculated risk. The only benefit is that where I parked was extremely secure…theft was never an issue, but a vehicle inspection (never done before) may have been problematic.

Have I violated company policies on keeping a firearm in my vehicle or carrying concealed? Yeap. Did I understand the risks and consequences? Yeap. Outside of state-mandated, “correct” signs of no firearms, I always interpret policies to mean that “no firearms” means “no illegal firearms”. Again, just my personal interpretation to justify the risks I choose to make.

I once did ask to put a memorandum in my file when I signed the employ-conduct policy stating “no firearms”. I basically stated that the company assumes all responsibility for my safety against an assault, attack, active shooter, workplace violence, etc., and that if injured or killed while at work without the means to defend myself, I or my surviving family will sue for damages for violating my Constitutional rights of life and self-defense. I didn’t stay there long, but the company lawyer said the company couldn’t guarantee my personal safety…which I countered with why let me take care of that myself? This just shows the irony of company policies that protect the company but have nothing to do with the individual safety of their employees.

Again, it’s your choice to risk your employment over a company policy, and understanding the more severe consequences of violating standing state or federal laws when it comes to exercise your 2A rights in areas or with policies that don’t recognize those rights.

As an aside, you can always get an exception to policy if you can justify it. My wife’s school at the time considered the parking lot part of the school premise. The principal knew my wife as an active CCW practitioner and had attended several training classes with me. He personally gave her an exemption to policy to leave her gun in the car; she didn’t even ask. The Resource Officer split time between the middle school and high school, so they didn’t have a consistent presence at her school.

Additionally, when I was stationed and living on a military base with all my firearms “registered”, I also had a state-issued CCW. There was a gap on how to transport firearms on and off post, so I got an exception to policy to carry on base when traveling to and from my residence from the Provost Marshal. How you approach it and explain it can often end up in your favor. As a plans and policy guy at one time…there is always an “exception to policy” process and it works if articulated and presented logically and professionally.

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