Bank of America bans business with gun industry

[Las Vegan Cajun]

From: GunOwnersNJ@aol.com <GunOwnersNJ@aol.com>
To: undisclosed-recipients:; <undisclosed-recipients:;>
Date: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 2:06 AM
Subject: Here We Go Again; Blast The Bastards Until They Squeal

Interesting that someone doing business with an anti-gun business like Amerika Online would be calling for a boycott of another anti-gun business.

[email protected] ought to consider using a gun friendly Internet Service Provider before they "Blast The Bastards Until They Squeal"


[email protected]

[Edited by Las Vegan Cajun on 05-04-2001 at 10:50 AM]

[papercut]

The issue appears to be (to have been?) that BofA would not let a particular company open a business account (checking, savings, etc.) because the company is involved in the gun business. In other words, they don't want "that type" of company to be one of their customers.

They usually won't, however, prevent a customer from using the card at any particular merchant. That gets into sticky things, because the merchant is not their customer--you are. The merchant is VISA, Inc.'s customer (or MasterCard, or AmEx, etc.). If the purchase were refused at one merchant for no reason other than their type of business, and that merchant was a VISA member in good standing, then the merchant can complain to VISA, and VISA can call your bank (the one that refused to approve the purchase) and start to point out paragraphs in their contract with VISA, and ask the bank if they no longer want to have a VISA contract.

[DVD Tracker]

I could set them up with an address at bargainammo.com or sportutilityrifle.com

[moa]

Papercut, thanks for clearing up my confusion. That is not easy to do.

[Jager1]

Don't worry about Airborne Express. Their stock has nose-dived tremendously since the announcement(s) of their anti-gun policies. They continue to attribute the downturn to increasing 'fuel costs'.

Yeah, right.

One of the guys in the office here is a bigtime pro-NRA advocate, yet he drives for Airborne as a second job. Can't drive the last nail in their coffin when you're busting your ass for them.

Unless, of course, he is working an inside job....

[sgoeing]

Wouldn't these type of policies be considered "Restraint of Trade" under the Sherman and Clayton Acts.
Michael Goeing

[EricM]

I do know is that this a great victory for gun owners!

If only gun owners could get together and vote against gun control .

[Mike Spight]

And was happy to do it. When I called in to make the cancellation, the young man on the other end of the phone politely asked if I would mind letting them know why I was cancelling and I told him exactly why I was doing so.

My impression was that he had personally handled several calls taking similar action. The fact that they're "backing up the boat" now won't help...I won't get another card from them.

Unfortunately, the contract US Government DOD credit card (used for TDY travel, lodging, meals, .etc) is BOA. I don't know how long the contract runs, but with luck, it won't be renewed.

This is entire episode illustrates just how much leverage we, as a political/economic force, can generate.

Mike

[RAThomas]

Tom Gresham today on his radio program "Gun Talk" said that BofA is not an anti-gun company. As he was saying this I was reading this post. So I sent an e-mail to him and he responded on the air. Tom said that he talked with company executives and got the skinny on this.

[Guntalk]

Bank of America does not, repeat DOES NOT, have an anti-gun policy.

I talked with them (at their NY offices) several times last week, told them about Blockbuster Video, K-Mart, and Citibank, and the next day, B of A declared that it would, indeed, do business with companies in the gun industry, and that it had been a mistake and a misunderstanding.

Well, okay. They have to find a way to save face, and the important thing is they turned around.

All the work everyone did in "educating" Citibank paid off this time with a quick victory.

Now, if we could just get AARP straighened out . . .

But that's a different problem entirely.

-- Tom Gresham, Host of Gun Talk

[John/az2]

From the originator...
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/bofa.htm

Bank of America Will No Longer
Refuse Merchant Services Applications from the Gun Industry.


(05-03-01)
Its been less than a week. A very busy forty hours as tens of thousands of people have received, written and forwarded e-mails and e-mail links to this page and my dispute with BofA. In 40 hours I got calls from several newspapers from Oregon to Florida, several national gun magazines and local and national talk radio shows. 40 hours of irate gun owners and second-amendment supporters canceling their BofA credit cards, checking, and savings accounts; writing angry letters and making phone calls. Just 40 hours as some of the 83 million law-abiding gun owners expressed their outrage at such blatant discrimination. 40 hours to make the Bank of America behemoth jump!
I received a call at 10 AM this morning (5-3-01) , from Loraine Stinmel at Bank of America. She informed me that BofA is now drafting a new policy letter to the effect of "We do not as a policy discourage any merchant selling firearms from submitting an application for merchant services with us . . . we will not decline an application based on the gun industry itself." Who was responsible for the definitive statement "Bank of America does not offer merchant services to the gun industry," that Daniel (just following guidance from his superiors) used as a basis for refusing my application? BofA isn't saying. Loraine could only say "If we did this in the past, why? It doesn't make sense. . . We are not quite sure why this policy was distributed."

Whether it was an official national change to the Merchant Services Policy, as BofA told me, or an unwritten national corporate policy, or a BofA Arizona regional policy, or the individual prejudice of someone relatively high up in the BofA Arizona hierarchy, we may never know.

I do know is that this a great victory for gun owners!

1. Bank of America will not discriminate against the gun industry (either because its wrong, or because it hurts them financially - you decide).

2. Other businesses will take heed of the incredible influence of gun owners as a consumer block.

3. Gun owners got to see how fast their network of like-minded Americans can force change in even a huge corporation like BofA.

I have learned an important lessons that may be of value to other activists. Once I sent the first e-mail, it gained a life of its own - and I could not call it back. Passionate gun owners passed the message on to their networks with their own editorial comments. When further spread, the line between my original statements and the comments of people forwarding it became blurred. Some would only cut and paste what they considered the most important parts of my original message. Quickly, hundreds of versions of my message were out there. SINCE WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS - its absolutely imperative that activist notifications be accurate beyond reproach. If the anti-freedom pundits can find one minor technical error, they can capitalize on it and shed doubt on the accuracy of the entire message. While in my specific issue, I have not seen any messages coming back to me with bad information, I quickly realized the potential for problems. Thus this page of my website. I encourage others with activist issues to have a single, constantly-updated source that people can refer to both to verify that its not an internet hoax, and to obtain the most up-to-date information. Insure that a link to that webpage is included in all forwarded e-mails. I consider it a testament to the integrity of the gun culture that I received so many requests for authentication before the people were willing to take action or forward the message. Thank you. Thank you all for such incredible support.

A few issues still remain unresolved. At the time of this writing, I have not received a written copy of the new policy statement. I also have not learned who was responsible for the previous policy and if it was an individual, if there will be any disciplinary action.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Who is Next?


(05-03-01)
Who is next? Airborne Express will not ship any firearms or firearms related products. I opened my Airborne Express account when UPS - unable to keep their employees from stealing guns - required all handgun shipments to go by Next Day Air at a 400+% price increase. Several months later, I learned that Airborne Express banned all guns and gun related products. Ironically, I received a query from ABNEX corporate office as to why I stopped shipping with them. When I advised them of their blatant discrimination against one of the most highly regulated industries in the country, I got some cheesy form letter back saying they would "take my comments into consideration."
Activism is a full-time job. I lost a week of work pursuing the BofA issue. I just don't have the time right now to go after Airborne Express. The $6000-$8000 I spend each year on out-going freight goes with other companies instead. Maybe Airborne Express needs a reminder of what a huge market share they lost and how simple it would be to regain it?

[Fred S]

Well, I'm very glad the pressure got to them. But there was an ace card we could have played that really would have gotten to them. BOA provides all the government credit cards for DOD government employees for travel purposes. They make a lot of money on this. A few letters to pro gun congressmen may have really got their attention.

[B9mmHP]

Is this a Victory? Yes!

But it was just a small skirmish in a WAR.They conceded as some others have, with little loss, but others keep coming. Way? Because they have not been hurt enough. So others will keep coming, and maybe BoA again when they feel the need.

If you remember Vietnam, we could have won that WAR, remember Desert Storm, we could have won that WAR, did we? Hell No! The Communists are in South Vietnam, Saddam Insane is still in power. Why? Because we quit before the ofjective was met, so we did not win anything.

The point being is, if we just say, they (BoA) conceded we have won, you are Wrong. It is not time to quit on BoA we need to make it hurt Real Bad so others wont think it will be all right just to say we changed our policy so we are good guys again and continue as if nothing happened. This is a WAR, it is time that we win this WAR Big Time so others wont follow in their foot steps. They need to be made an example of, show the power we have as a group so others wont dare tread on our rights.

I am sure that some of those reading this now think that because BoA conceded they don`t need to cancel their credit card and write them a letter. You are Wrong, tell them you know they changed policy, but you want to do business with someone else that respects your rights and the Second Amendment and doesn`t need to be reminded that this is a Republic with God given rights and affirmed by the Constitution, that they seemed to have forgotten even exists.

DO NOT STOP NOW. It is time to let all know that should they try to crush this Republic they will be held accountable for their actions.

This is not a rant it is the Truth

[papercut]

Papercut, thanks for clearing up my confusion. That is not easy to do.

You mean my explanation made sense??!?

[paratrooper]

Another trick that has been used to get attention . When these people send stuff out they usually enclose Postage Paid envelopes . If it is duct taped to a brick they will have to pay big bucks to get since I am told they can't refuse . They pay 1 1/2 times the first class rate . A brick should be about $16 or so . If anyone has better intel please advise .

[Brett Bellmore]

I have no information to the contrary, but that "duct tape a brick to the paid return envelope" thing has always struck me as extremely unlikely, an urban legend sort of thing. After all, those envelopes have been very widely used for a very long time, plenty of time for lobbying for some sort of protection from that sort of prank. Might be worth asking the post office, before you bother.

[Russ]

I don't care if B of A is anti gun or not. They have one screwed up operation and anyone that deals with them should be wary. I quit them 20 years ago due to their pathetic service.

[piehole]

I first spoke to B of A on Tuesday of this week starting with a local branch here is Charleston, SC.

Through various referrals, phone messages and call backs I ended up talking to Scott Krugman who represented himself as a public relations "spokesman" for the whole of Bank of America.

From the beginning he seemed to be telling me that there never had been a policy against granting merchant services to gun related businesses and it appeared the problem was related to an incorrect interpretation of existing policy.

This was my perception of our phone conversation. Neither my nor anyone else's perceptions are anything to bank on so I asked for an official statement which I could post on the internet.

Here it is;
________________________________________________________

Ken,

Thank you for your inquiry. Here is our official position on the current situation:

"At Bank of America, we do not have a company-wide policy preventing
us from doing business with firearms dealers."

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Regards,

Scott Krugman

________________________________________________________

Not exactly an in depth statement and it still leaves some possible holes but its what the man sent me.

As it appears B of A has backed off of this I will continue to do business with them.

O and O,

piehole