Federal 223 Brass

[Bucksnort1]

This morning, I spoke to a representative from Federal. The reason for the call was, how to determine which cases, based on head stamp, have crimped primers. The bottom line is, ALL Federal 223 cases (I did not ask about other calibers) are either crimped or staked. This means the box of 223 you buy at Walmart will have crimped or staked primers. I asked if removing the crimp is necessary for reloading. He said it will make your reloading life a lot easier. Until today, I have been under the impression crimping is done by means of what Federal calls, staking.

According to Federal, staking means the primer is held in place by four equally spaced tabs or stakes around the circumference lip of the primer pocket; whereas, a crimp is continuous and goes around the circumference, at the lip, of the primer pocket.

Also, the small circle indentations (not the circle with the cross) around the case head indicate which piece of equipment was used to produce that case and not which facility produced it.

Yesterday, I experimented with a couple of Federal non-military cases by removing the primers then running a sharp knife edge around the lip of the primer pocket to feel for stakes. I did not detect any stakes and I did nothing else to the primer pocket so I seated a primer without problems. If these cases have crimps, they did not interfere with seating the primer.

Now, I'm wondering if Remington and Winchester stake or crimp their primers.

[chris in va]

I've found you can prime Federal cases without removing the ring crimp, but it's not always smooth sailing and every tenth case or so the primer gets mangled. The LC stake absolutely needs removing.

I haven't noticed any crimp on Remington RP cases, but the 'WCC' Winchesters seem to have more of a step than a crimp.

[Bucksnort1]

Crimp ring - that's a better description than my wordy one. Thanks for the advice. I was about to scrap the several hundred FCs I have but I think I will keep them then load them.

[roddude372]

How do you remove the ring crimp from federal cases?

[Unclenick]

The official tools are either a primer pocket reamer or a primer pocket swager. Many just use a wood countersink on an electric drill. You'll find examples on YouTube.

[Amegatek]

I use the Dillon Super Swage 600 to swage my .223 brass. Little bit on the pricey side, but it is an excellent tool.

[Fotheringill]

Just a little heads up-

Measure your fired case of F C from base to mouth. I shot a load of them that Black Hills was using in its factory rounds and the cases were between 2.470 and 2.350

[wpsdlrg]

RCBS supplies a tool, which can be screwed into a handle or chucked into a drill, that uniforms the primer pockets and cuts out the crimp. It will work on both annular (ring) primer crimps and staked primer crimps. Two different part numbers - one for large primer pockets and the other for small ones.

$10.99, if memory serves. I got mine at the local Cabela's.

I am using mostly 5.56 NATO brass in my .223 rifle, as of now anyway. So, I use this tool on ALL of my brass. Only have to use it ONCE.

[Kosh75287]

When sorting brass, I usually set the Federal .223s aside, for reloading at a time when I'm feeling particularly patient.

[Bucksnort1]

Kosh, Is this because the ring crimp is a problem? I'm trying to decide what to do with my Federal brass.

I second your statement about Scotch; however, I will revise it by saying, "carpe single malt scotch." I will also say I've never met a Scotch I don't like.

Also Kosh, will you translate the Arabic inscription?

[Kosh75287]

Pogy Bait, yer a man after me own heart! I, too, prefer the 12 year-old single malts (the only 12 year-olds with which I can reason, these days) to the blends, but won't ignore other options, if offered. At one time, I was convinced that my duty in life was to consume all the sub-standard scotches out there, lest they be consumed by someone with truly discerning tastes, at hazard to their refined palates. THESE days, those people are on their own!

MY recollection is that, if Federal primers are used in Federal brass, the crimp/stake/whatever is not much of an issue. If you find it bothersome, a LIGHT turn of the primer pocket with a chamfer tool makes life easier. I haven't loaded up all my R-P, LC, and Winchester brass yet, and will start on the Federal Brass, then. Depending on how much other brass you have, you may as well use it, but I'd reload the other better brass, first. Sometimes, I go too light on the chamfering, so I have to hit the primer pocket again, before seating primers, which is when I find it advantageous to be "particularly patient".

The Arabic script is supposed to say: "Anglo. Armed. Ready." I had it confirmed by a Jordanian colleague who read it out to me, without me telling him the intent of the message. Others who are fluent in the language are welcome to confirm or correct. I'm pondering the merits of putting it on a T-shirt.

[Bucksnort1]

I think I will take your advice and put aside my Federal 223 brass and load the R-P and Winchester brass I have. Sheesh, I have more of those brands than I would ever use.

Regarding Scotch, I and a good friend, about ten years ago, began drinking single malts. I keep a good supply of singles but I rarely drink them. For a number of years on Saturday nights, I would have a weekly single malt but then I began guarding my stash. At that point, I would, and still do, buy the cheapest I can find. I will dilute it with soda or water to remove some of the bitter taste but there are many times when I drink it on the rocks. I never drink singles on the rocks or with water or soda. I drink them, "neat."

Do you mind if I send you a personal email through this forum? I want to tell you how I developed my taste for Scotch.

[Kosh75287]

Please be my guest, Sir!

BTW, you may find that running a fresh-sliced lemon or lime around the inside of the glass before combining the blended scotch + whatever, will negate a fair amount of the bitterness.

[RC20]

Ok, I like good Scotch and don't care if its single, double or tripled with Kin Learney thrown in!


I have had success with reaming out the Greek HXP 3 staked primer pocket on the RCBS case prep station.

I have not tired it on any full crimp brass.

[Economist]

I have found that adding a splash of good brandy to a cheap scotch (over ice with a little water) will make it into a reasonable facsimile of Macallan 12. I never could get into drinking scotch neat, though. Even the expensive stuff I prefer on the rocks with a splash of water.

As far as federal .223 brass goes - I have never seen a Federal .223 case without a crimp, and that crimp ALWAYS makes seating primers far too difficult. I remove the crimp with a case neck chamfer tool that looks like a countersink. A second or two on the Hornady Case Prep Trio and the crimp is gone.

[Bucksnort1]

As I said, I'm taking all advice and setting aside the Federal brass.

Economist, I promise I will not report you to the scotch police for adding water to a single malt. Actually, there is a time when scotch purists will allow water to be added to scotch and that is when you are drinking a "cask strength" scotch. If you haven't tried any and you drink it neat, it will knock you on your patootey. I will also try the brandy trick and the lemon/lime trick.

[Unclenick]

Originally Posted by fotheringill

Measure your fired case of F C from base to mouth. I shot a load of them that Black Hills was using in its factory rounds and the cases were between 2.470 and 2.350

That's longer than the whole 223 cartridge. Were you maybe thinking of a 30-06 case? You do see some shortened cases when a VLD projectile has been used in them.

[bfoosh006]

Fotheringill posted ....

Quote...."Just a little heads up-
Measure your fired case of F C from base to mouth. I shot a load of them that Black Hills was using in its factory rounds and the cases were between 2.470 and 2.350 " Un Quote.

FYI ... BH only trims their Red Box .223 / 5.56 cases .... the blue box is left un trimmed.

[cw308]

I'm sure it was a mistake, 223 case length is between 1.750 - 1.760 I like FC cases they are thicker then most, I drop my charge 1.0 gr. then listed charge , and work up from there.

[Fotheringill]

Sorry- Was typing from office and numbers confuse me. They measure 1.735 to 1.745.

As to Scotch- I prefer the peaty tasting stuff- Lagavulen and Laphroaig. There is a Japanese brand of Scotch that comes close, but is much stronger to the tongue than the other two.

[Kosh75287]

Japanese SCOTCH!?!?! That's just not RIGHT, somehow! That's like...like...like a BERDAN PRIMED .45 ACP CASE! Perish FORBID!

ECONOMIST, personal tastes are something that need no governing, but generally speaking, things like water and ice, in the context of drinking scotch, generally have a "very low marginal utility function". That's as close to "language equivalence" as I think I can get, on the matter.

[Bucksnort1]

I should post this in the for sale section of this forum but I'll try it here. I have several hundred F C 223 cases. Anyone interested for the price of shipping only?

I've heard about Japanese scotch but never have tried it. I too prefer the peaty single malts which mostly come from the island of Islay (pronounced Ila). This island is off the west coast of Great Britain.

[skizzums]

sure, i'll take em. i'll even trade you some "un-crimped" rounds if you'd like

[GaryC4]

So being really new to the whole 223/5.56 round, can I assume this is the "crimp ring" that needs to be removed from the brass?

[Economist]

Yes. That stupid little ring will make seating primers very hard to impossible.