Game Warden Cleared in Turkey Hunter Shooting - Page 2

Pbearperry · July 7, 2009, 05:49 PM

Mr. Hotdogs I am not saying you have the right to do whatever you want to do including growing pot.However keeping that in mind,if the daycomes that cops are allowed to enter private property or buildings without just cause,just to snoop around,then all is lost.That smacks of 1930's Germany.
If that Game warden after approaching the owner of the property left without getting a shouting match,the land owner would still be alive.If the GW believed the landowner was breaking the law,he could have summonsed him to court,or left and obtained the proper court papers along with backup.
If in fact game wardens are allowed to wander onto private property without due cause,then the laws need to be changed.I just don't like cops anywhere going on a fishing expedition to make an arrest.There are plenty of cases to be made the right way.

PT111 · July 7, 2009, 06:40 PM

You have to remember that "Game Laws" are different as the property owner does not own or control the "Game" as they are free reign animals. Turkeys, Deer, Beaars etc. are not limited to a certain person's property thus "game Laws" and Game Wardens fall under a different category and different laws than other LEO.

Now if you fence in your property such as many hunting preserves then you are allowed to do many different things than if you just have property. For instance the limits on hunts are waived along with baiting and other normal laws. You are in effect creating a zoo for people to hunt in.

I have read on here several times about dogs being allowed to cross property lines but but the owner of the property where the dog is cannot shoot or harm the dog. This is not a kingdom where the king owns all the animals in the forrest. The "wild" animals, whether they are Turkey or Deer are considered the people's property and even the landowner must follow the laws of the people. If you want to claim the animals on your land as soley your own and do with them as you please then you have to restrict their movement and not allow them to leave your land or others to enter it. As long as you let "Game" freely roam your land you also have to let the Game Warden roam it.

davlandrum · July 7, 2009, 06:53 PM

Can we all just agree there were plenty of bad decisions on both sides and plenty of tragedy on both sides.

hogdogs · July 7, 2009, 06:56 PM

PT, Even if bought and fenced, in many if not most states, native breeds fall under game laws.
In Florida I think it is illegal for me to own white tail deer in an enclosure for me to go out and harvest them for food year around... same with wild turkey of the native sub species.
Brent

ZeroJunk · July 7, 2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Can we all just agree there were plenty of bad decisions on both sides and plenty of tragedy on both sides.

Yes. Don't point a gun at a law enforcement officer.

Brian Pfleuger · July 7, 2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davlandrum

Can we all just agree there were plenty of bad decisions on both sides and plenty of tragedy on both sides.

Absolutely not! I see no problems on the part of the warden. He was doing his job. Some half crazy old man pointed a gun at him and he did what he had to do. To bad for the old man, I have NO sympathy. If he wasn't fit to handle a firearm, ie dementia or any other reason, someone should have stopped him. Here's a tip for anyone else considering the same action.... Pointing a gun at law enforcement is likely to get you killed. Do so at your own risk!

Recall the video of the old man exiting his truck and emptying a rifle into the officer during a traffic stop for nothing more than a seat belt violation?

Pointing a gun at a cop should get you DEAD.

When guns are involved you get no second chance.

The officer has a fine record many years long, to question his intent in this incident is asinine.

jughead2 · July 7, 2009, 07:35 PM

game warden can come on my property in tenn. but he CANNOT come into my home without a warrant unless he is in hot pursuit of a suspect period. it is in tenn. code in black and white.

eastbank · July 7, 2009, 07:48 PM

rant, if i have to shoot some one in self defence,it sure as hell won,t be on their land in hunting season,looking for a bait pile. their were a lot better ways to handle this incident before it got to the point that killing the old man was the only way out.. the fine for hunting over a bait pile is not death, all the warden had to do is witness the man hunting over or near the bait and sent him a summons(he already knew who the man was). eastbank.

rantingredneck · July 7, 2009, 08:00 PM

And when he goes to witness the baiting and then identifies himself as a game warden and the old man starts chasing him with a shotgun??? Yeah, I'd have shot the old fella too. I'd have felt bad about it, sure (as I'm sure this warden does). But I would have gone home that night.

Regardless of the anti-GW sentiments of a few posters here, the Warden was within the bounds of his duties in confronting someone hunting illegally. Regardless of the property situation. Not to mention that the GW had no way to know that the fellow in the tree was the actual landowner now did he? Had he produced any identification for the GW? Nope, Just a shotgun.

To the point of the matter, if you don't want to get a ticket (even on your own property) don't break the game laws. If you don't want to be shot by a game warden, don't point your gun at him and chase him with it.

It's relatively easy with the 20-20 vision of hindsight to suggest that the game warden back out of the woods and go get a summons issued for the fellow in the tree (who he likely had not yet identified). But how was the game warden to expect the person in the tree to start chasing him with a shotgun and acting irrationally?

To put this in perspective.......(taking the whole game laws/warden issue out of it)

You're hiking in the mountains of NC. You start out on any of the public trails up in that area. You get a little lost and aren't real sure where you are. You come upon a person in a treestand hunting and politely ask him for directions back to the trailhead. He starts yelling at you and pointing a shotgun at you. Do you defend yourself or just pray he doesn't shoot you?

I'd bet the majority of the posters here would defend themselves.

BILLDAVE · July 7, 2009, 08:01 PM

I've know of too many stories of GW getting shot and killed (last year in texas near cotulla comes to mind). This is because they have a different set of laws that in some peoples belief is overstreched power. If I were him I would retire because he now will have a target on him It is a sad story. And I agree with eastbank. I wonder if thier had been some prior incidents between the two? It gives both hunters and GW a bad name.
BILLDAvE

jammin1237 · July 7, 2009, 08:24 PM

just because there are laws in the great USA does not mean you can simply erase someone just because you "think" they are disobeying "the laws"... i would not want to be in Mark Minton's(what a piece of crap) shoes at this moment...this poor "land owner" was born in approx 1933, oh my god! a terrorist bastardo gone bad!... lets all get a grip, this GW was on a power trip and needs to pay for being a murderer...

Brian Pfleuger · July 7, 2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

this poor "land owner" was born in approx 1933, oh my god! a terrorist bastardo gone bad!... lets all get a grip, this GW was on a power trip and needs to pay for being a murderer...

So, when an old man points a gun at you during the course of your duties you just..... what? what are you supposed to do?

This?....

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f840ab50b2

Yep, copper in that video got what he had comin' too, I suppose. Pickin' on that poor old man for not wearing his seatbelt.

:barf:

Some times people make me ill.

jammin1237 · July 7, 2009, 08:45 PM

So, when an old man points a gun at you during the course of your duties you just..... what? what are you supposed to do?

#1 leave...
#2 get proper warrants...
#3 subpoena the supposed defiant
#4 settle it in court, not the self proclaimed battle field

cheers

Art Eatman · July 7, 2009, 08:54 PM

Some folks who spout about what they'd do to a "trespassing" game warden had better look into their state's laws concerning this subject. You can beat your chest and get all puffed up when playing Keyboard Kommando, but odds are that in daylight in the real world and face to face with the law himself, there would be vastly different behavior.

It had better be different: The Graybar Hotel is not the world's choicest vacation spot.

And, by the way, a high fence does not change the law. No, it's not a zoo for hunting. Any "take" outside of the regular rules requires separate permission from the wildlife agency.

July 7, 2009, 06:53 PM	#28
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	Can we all just agree there were plenty of bad decisions on both sides and plenty of tragedy on both sides. __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

July 7, 2009, 07:35 PM	#32
jughead2 Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2008 Location: tenn. Posts: 263	turkey hunter. game warden can come on my property in tenn. but he CANNOT come into my home without a warrant unless he is in hot pursuit of a suspect period. it is in tenn. code in black and white.

July 7, 2009, 08:00 PM	#34
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	And when he goes to witness the baiting and then identifies himself as a game warden and the old man starts chasing him with a shotgun??? Yeah, I'd have shot the old fella too. I'd have felt bad about it, sure (as I'm sure this warden does). But I would have gone home that night. Regardless of the anti-GW sentiments of a few posters here, the Warden was within the bounds of his duties in confronting someone hunting illegally. Regardless of the property situation. Not to mention that the GW had no way to know that the fellow in the tree was the actual landowner now did he? Had he produced any identification for the GW? Nope, Just a shotgun. To the point of the matter, if you don't want to get a ticket (even on your own property) don't break the game laws. If you don't want to be shot by a game warden, don't point your gun at him and chase him with it. It's relatively easy with the 20-20 vision of hindsight to suggest that the game warden back out of the woods and go get a summons issued for the fellow in the tree (who he likely had not yet identified). But how was the game warden to expect the person in the tree to start chasing him with a shotgun and acting irrationally? To put this in perspective.......(taking the whole game laws/warden issue out of it) You're hiking in the mountains of NC. You start out on any of the public trails up in that area. You get a little lost and aren't real sure where you are. You come upon a person in a treestand hunting and politely ask him for directions back to the trailhead. He starts yelling at you and pointing a shotgun at you. Do you defend yourself or just pray he doesn't shoot you? I'd bet the majority of the posters here would defend themselves. __________________ NRA Member NC Hunter's Education Instructor PCCA Member (What's PCCA you ask? <- Check the link)

July 7, 2009, 08:01 PM	#35
BILLDAVE Junior member Join Date: September 17, 2006 Location: In the Mid-West Posts: 321	I wouldn't want to be that warden. I've know of too many stories of GW getting shot and killed (last year in texas near cotulla comes to mind). This is because they have a different set of laws that in some peoples belief is overstreched power. If I were him I would retire because he now will have a target on him It is a sad story. And I agree with eastbank. I wonder if thier had been some prior incidents between the two? It gives both hunters and GW a bad name. BILLDAvE

July 7, 2009, 08:24 PM	#36
jammin1237 Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Location: Wisonsin Posts: 269	freedom? just because there are laws in the great USA does not mean you can simply erase someone just because you "think" they are disobeying "the laws"... i would not want to be in Mark Minton's(what a piece of crap) shoes at this moment...this poor "land owner" was born in approx 1933, oh my god! a terrorist bastardo gone bad!... lets all get a grip, this GW was on a power trip and needs to pay for being a murderer...

July 7, 2009, 05:49 PM	#26
Pbearperry Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2008 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 283	Mr. Hotdogs I am not saying you have the right to do whatever you want to do including growing pot.However keeping that in mind,if the daycomes that cops are allowed to enter private property or buildings without just cause,just to snoop around,then all is lost.That smacks of 1930's Germany. If that Game warden after approaching the owner of the property left without getting a shouting match,the land owner would still be alive.If the GW believed the landowner was breaking the law,he could have summonsed him to court,or left and obtained the proper court papers along with backup. If in fact game wardens are allowed to wander onto private property without due cause,then the laws need to be changed.I just don't like cops anywhere going on a fishing expedition to make an arrest.There are plenty of cases to be made the right way.

July 7, 2009, 06:40 PM	#27
PT111 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2007 Posts: 1,041	You have to remember that "Game Laws" are different as the property owner does not own or control the "Game" as they are free reign animals. Turkeys, Deer, Beaars etc. are not limited to a certain person's property thus "game Laws" and Game Wardens fall under a different category and different laws than other LEO. Now if you fence in your property such as many hunting preserves then you are allowed to do many different things than if you just have property. For instance the limits on hunts are waived along with baiting and other normal laws. You are in effect creating a zoo for people to hunt in. I have read on here several times about dogs being allowed to cross property lines but but the owner of the property where the dog is cannot shoot or harm the dog. This is not a kingdom where the king owns all the animals in the forrest. The "wild" animals, whether they are Turkey or Deer are considered the people's property and even the landowner must follow the laws of the people. If you want to claim the animals on your land as soley your own and do with them as you please then you have to restrict their movement and not allow them to leave your land or others to enter it. As long as you let "Game" freely roam your land you also have to let the Game Warden roam it.

July 7, 2009, 06:56 PM	#29
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	PT, Even if bought and fenced, in many if not most states, native breeds fall under game laws. In Florida I think it is illegal for me to own white tail deer in an enclosure for me to go out and harvest them for food year around... same with wild turkey of the native sub species. Brent

July 7, 2009, 07:48 PM	#33
eastbank Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2008 Location: pa. Posts: 2,450	rant, if i have to shoot some one in self defence,it sure as hell won,t be on their land in hunting season,looking for a bait pile. their were a lot better ways to handle this incident before it got to the point that killing the old man was the only way out.. the fine for hunting over a bait pile is not death, all the warden had to do is witness the man hunting over or near the bait and sent him a summons(he already knew who the man was). eastbank.

July 7, 2009, 08:45 PM	#38
jammin1237 Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Location: Wisonsin Posts: 269	So, when an old man points a gun at you during the course of your duties you just..... what? what are you supposed to do? #1 leave... #2 get proper warrants... #3 subpoena the supposed defiant #4 settle it in court, not the self proclaimed battle field cheers

July 7, 2009, 08:54 PM	#39
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Some folks who spout about what they'd do to a "trespassing" game warden had better look into their state's laws concerning this subject. You can beat your chest and get all puffed up when playing Keyboard Kommando, but odds are that in daylight in the real world and face to face with the law himself, there would be vastly different behavior. It had better be different: The Graybar Hotel is not the world's choicest vacation spot. And, by the way, a high fence does not change the law. No, it's not a zoo for hunting. Any "take" outside of the regular rules requires separate permission from the wildlife agency.