Unburned powder in barrel

ckpj99 · December 17, 2015, 01:03 PM

I've been reloading 45-70 for several years now. I've gone through several guns and finally have a Rolling Block reproduction that I'm really happy with.

I'm getting decent accuracy shooting 535 grain 20:1 cast lead bullets over 23 grains of 5744. However, I'm getting a lot of unburnt powder in the barrel.

I've tried heavier loads and I've tried magnum primers, but the result is always the same.

The only thing I haven't tried is using a crimp because as I understand it will only deform the soft lead bullet. Plus the bullet is a tight fit and set very deep in the case, so I don't really think a crimp is going to do much unless it's so aggressive that it causes other problems.

Should I worry about the unburned powder? I've tried so many different powder combinations and loadings, and 5744 performs best out of everything I tried.

NoSecondBest · December 17, 2015, 01:38 PM

5744 is famous for leaving a significant amount of unburned particles in the barrel after shooting. I use quite a bit of it and just ignore it. It doesn't hurt anything and doesn't seem to have any effect on accuracy. It's one of my better powders in my 45-70s across the entire weight range of bullets used. It doesn't keep stacking up in the barrel. The next shot seems to clear out some of the first shot and it just stays the same. The only problem I've ever had is once in a while it will leave a couple of kernals in the trigger group of my High Wall and the trigger won't cock until I blow it out. Even that doesn't happen very often.

ckpj99 · December 17, 2015, 01:56 PM

No Second Best - Thanks for the tip. Does this also mean that 5744 loads don't need to be very precise? I typically weigh each charge on a pretty crappy digital scale (a Hornady model). I'm guessing it gets me +/- .2 grains during a loading session, and each loading session probably varies as well.

I've considered switching to weighing each charge on my balance scale, and inversely considered switching to Lee scoops. 5744 meters like crap.

I'm not new to 45-70, but I'm pretty new to 5744.

NoSecondBest · December 17, 2015, 05:31 PM

It's somewhat close to what you get with black powder. It's bulky and used generally in large capacity cases for best results. It's not that critical if you're off .2+/- in a 45-70. It's a very popular powder with cast bullet shooters for those reasons. I don't dump powder charges using this and several other powders. I use Lee dippers and dump the dipper on the scale and then simply trickle up to the zero mark. The difference of +/-.2 grains is pretty insignificant when you're using thirty, forty or more grains of powder vs. using something like 4g of Bullseye.

Kosh75287 · December 17, 2015, 06:05 PM

Can you increase the eating depth? It might modestly increase chamber pressures and result in a slightly cleaner burn. I don't even know if such a thing is made, but would using a taper-crimp die perhaps induce enough crimp without altering the projectile's shape?

I've shot 20 rounds of .45-70, ever, and reloaded @ 50, so I can claim little expertise with the cartridge. Sorta fun to shoot, though...

Slamfire · December 17, 2015, 06:36 PM

The trade off for clean combustion is pressure and high temperatures. Low pressures powders just do not burn as completely. Clean burning is being addressed in pistol powders, Titegroup is very popular, clean burning, extremely fast burning, and the barrel heats up quickly. Am amazing number of pistols have been blown up with Titegroup because it is so fast burning and a half a grain difference in charge will spike pressures.

If you think AA5744 is bad, in terms of unburnt powder particles, have you ever shot blackpowder? It is a lot worse.

jimbob86 · December 17, 2015, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Am amazing number of pistols have been blown up with Titegroup because it is so fast burning and a half a grain difference in charge will spike pressures.

Add to that that it pretty dense, leaving lots of room in some cases for positional variances causing spiking ..... ...... add in another reason many people like it: it's cheap, as they can get more loads per dollar spent on powder - these people often use lead bullets for the same reason, another spikey prone thing due to leading ........ add in a bit of bullet setback, because these guys would never throw out a bullet just because it moved a bit in the case when they chambered it several times...... it's a perfect storm brewing......

December 17, 2015, 01:03 PM	#1
ckpj99 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 386	Unburned powder in barrel I've been reloading 45-70 for several years now. I've gone through several guns and finally have a Rolling Block reproduction that I'm really happy with. I'm getting decent accuracy shooting 535 grain 20:1 cast lead bullets over 23 grains of 5744. However, I'm getting a lot of unburnt powder in the barrel. I've tried heavier loads and I've tried magnum primers, but the result is always the same. The only thing I haven't tried is using a crimp because as I understand it will only deform the soft lead bullet. Plus the bullet is a tight fit and set very deep in the case, so I don't really think a crimp is going to do much unless it's so aggressive that it causes other problems. Should I worry about the unburned powder? I've tried so many different powder combinations and loadings, and 5744 performs best out of everything I tried.

December 17, 2015, 06:05 PM	#5
Kosh75287 Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2007 Posts: 820	Can you increase the eating depth? It might modestly increase chamber pressures and result in a slightly cleaner burn. I don't even know if such a thing is made, but would using a taper-crimp die perhaps induce enough crimp without altering the projectile's shape? I've shot 20 rounds of .45-70, ever, and reloaded @ 50, so I can claim little expertise with the cartridge. Sorta fun to shoot, though... __________________ GOD BLESS JEFF COOPER, whose instructions, consultations, and publications have probably saved more lives than can ever be reliably calculated. DVC, sir. انجلو. المسلحة. جاهزة. Carpe SCOTCH!

December 17, 2015, 06:36 PM	#6
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	The trade off for clean combustion is pressure and high temperatures. Low pressures powders just do not burn as completely. Clean burning is being addressed in pistol powders, Titegroup is very popular, clean burning, extremely fast burning, and the barrel heats up quickly. Am amazing number of pistols have been blown up with Titegroup because it is so fast burning and a half a grain difference in charge will spike pressures. If you think AA5744 is bad, in terms of unburnt powder particles, have you ever shot blackpowder? It is a lot worse. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

December 17, 2015, 01:38 PM	#2
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	5744 is famous for leaving a significant amount of unburned particles in the barrel after shooting. I use quite a bit of it and just ignore it. It doesn't hurt anything and doesn't seem to have any effect on accuracy. It's one of my better powders in my 45-70s across the entire weight range of bullets used. It doesn't keep stacking up in the barrel. The next shot seems to clear out some of the first shot and it just stays the same. The only problem I've ever had is once in a while it will leave a couple of kernals in the trigger group of my High Wall and the trigger won't cock until I blow it out. Even that doesn't happen very often.

December 17, 2015, 01:56 PM	#3
ckpj99 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 386	No Second Best - Thanks for the tip. Does this also mean that 5744 loads don't need to be very precise? I typically weigh each charge on a pretty crappy digital scale (a Hornady model). I'm guessing it gets me +/- .2 grains during a loading session, and each loading session probably varies as well. I've considered switching to weighing each charge on my balance scale, and inversely considered switching to Lee scoops. 5744 meters like crap. I'm not new to 45-70, but I'm pretty new to 5744.

December 17, 2015, 05:31 PM	#4
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	It's somewhat close to what you get with black powder. It's bulky and used generally in large capacity cases for best results. It's not that critical if you're off .2+/- in a 45-70. It's a very popular powder with cast bullet shooters for those reasons. I don't dump powder charges using this and several other powders. I use Lee dippers and dump the dipper on the scale and then simply trickle up to the zero mark. The difference of +/-.2 grains is pretty insignificant when you're using thirty, forty or more grains of powder vs. using something like 4g of Bullseye.