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Old April 15, 2018, 09:37 AM   #1
Model12Win
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R700 Police .300 Winny?

Thinking on a Remington 700 Police in .300 Winchester Magnum. Anyone have any experiences with them?
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Old April 15, 2018, 11:50 AM   #2
T. O'Heir
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A Remington 700 Police is just an M700 with phosphated metal and an Al block bedded, H-S Precision composite stock(Kevlar and fiberglass). Weighs 9 pounds. 1 in 10 twist, 26" barrel.
Pretty much the same thing as their M700 Long Range. Difference is who made the stock and the finish on the metal. The latter is easily altered.
Recoil of a 180 grain bullet at 2960 FPS out of an 8.5 pound rifle is 25.9 ft-lbs.
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Old April 15, 2018, 02:14 PM   #3
Model12Win
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Originally Posted by T. O'Heir View Post
A Remington 700 Police is just an M700 with phosphated metal and an Al block bedded, H-S Precision composite stock(Kevlar and fiberglass). Weighs 9 pounds. 1 in 10 twist, 26" barrel.
Pretty much the same thing as their M700 Long Range. Difference is who made the stock and the finish on the metal. The latter is easily altered.
Recoil of a 180 grain bullet at 2960 FPS out of an 8.5 pound rifle is 25.9 ft-lbs.
Than you. Recoil doesn't sound too bad compared to others. Ammo hovers around $0.80 per round for the cheapest stuff. I don't currently reload. Uses would be hunting pigs, long range elk/deer, and recreational target shooting. I have always wanted this gun. I know it's not so practical but ever since handling my friends dad's .300 Win Mag I've wanted one.
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Old April 15, 2018, 05:39 PM   #4
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Anything magnum is declining in popularity. Out to 500 yards a 308 does the same thing with around 14 ft lbs energy from the same weight rifle. The 6.5 Creedmoor has very similar trajectory out to 2000 yards as 300 WM with about 10 ft lbs recoil. 26 ft lbs of recoil is tolerable for a few rounds. But after 10-20 you'll know. That is about the daily limit for most people.

Quote:
Recoil of a 180 grain bullet at 2960 FPS out of an 8.5 pound rifle is 25.9 ft-lbs.
That would be a mild load, 3050-3100 fps is more likely, with recoil closer to 30-31 ft lbs.

Either 308 or the 6.5, and about 2 dozen others will take deer, elk, or hogs out to 500 yards. The 300 starts to gain an advantage past 500. BTDT, sold the 300 and wouldn't go back.

Bullets from just a few years ago sucked compared to today. It isn't how fast they leave the muzzle, but how fast they are going when they impact. Newer high BC bullets can leave the muzzle much slower than before, and still impact down range with more speed since they are more aerodynamic. With old school bullets the only way to get better performance at extended ranges was more and more muzzle velocity. Which meant more and more recoil and blast.

Modern high BC 180 gr bullets fired from a 30-06 will surpass old school 180 gr RN bullets fired from 300 WM in as little as 75 yards, from a 308 in as little as 175 yards.

Quote:
Ammo hovers around $0.80 per round for the cheapest stuff.
Don't waste your time with anything that cheap. Decent factory loads for 300 WM will cost you $30-$50 for a box and can go up from there.

Decent factory loads for 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor start at $15 for a box and you can get some of the best loads for around $30.

As a target round the 6.5 matches the 300 WM out to 2000, the 308 starts to run out of gas at 1100-1200 yards. As a hunting cartridge the 308 or 6.5 will take elk size game out to around 500 and smaller game much farther. How far can you shoot?
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Old April 15, 2018, 07:39 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jmr40 View Post
Anything magnum is declining in popularity. Out to 500 yards a 308 does the same thing with around 14 ft lbs energy from the same weight rifle. The 6.5 Creedmoor has very similar trajectory out to 2000 yards as 300 WM with about 10 ft lbs recoil. 26 ft lbs of recoil is tolerable for a few rounds. But after 10-20 you'll know. That is about the daily limit for most people.



That would be a mild load, 3050-3100 fps is more likely, with recoil closer to 30-31 ft lbs.

Either 308 or the 6.5, and about 2 dozen others will take deer, elk, or hogs out to 500 yards. The 300 starts to gain an advantage past 500. BTDT, sold the 300 and wouldn't go back.

Bullets from just a few years ago sucked compared to today. It isn't how fast they leave the muzzle, but how fast they are going when they impact. Newer high BC bullets can leave the muzzle much slower than before, and still impact down range with more speed since they are more aerodynamic. With old school bullets the only way to get better performance at extended ranges was more and more muzzle velocity. Which meant more and more recoil and blast.

Modern high BC 180 gr bullets fired from a 30-06 will surpass old school 180 gr RN bullets fired from 300 WM in as little as 75 yards, from a 308 in as little as 175 yards.



Don't waste your time with anything that cheap. Decent factory loads for 300 WM will cost you $30-$50 for a box and can go up from there.

Decent factory loads for 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor start at $15 for a box and you can get some of the best loads for around $30.

As a target round the 6.5 matches the 300 WM out to 2000, the 308 starts to run out of gas at 1100-1200 yards. As a hunting cartridge the 308 or 6.5 will take elk size game out to around 500 and smaller game much farther. How far can you shoot?
The 308 has 14% more energy than the 6.5 CM.Everything else between the two is pretty much a push out to 4-500 yards.14% more energy is significant ........especially in elk country.

Now sit back and wait for EMCON.........snicker
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Old April 16, 2018, 05:00 PM   #6
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Don't let anyone talk you out of it...and yes, it IS "practical".
Extremely versatile, accurate and hard hiting well beyond 1000 yards
Still widely in use for SWS by multiple branches of the U.S. military- and was in fact one of " American Sniper" Chris Kyle's favorite weapon systems (SOCOM MK-13) accounting for the majority of his kills (it wasn't a 6.5 Creedmoor)...

For your stated purposes- including long range elk- perfect.
If budget allows, a quality suppressor will tame the felt recoil and your ears will thank you.
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Old April 16, 2018, 05:59 PM   #7
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If YOU want a 300WM, then get one. I have a 300WSM and a 308 WIN and if I had the choice again I'd skip the 300 mag. There is very little game that won't fall to the 308 Win under 500 yards.

If I could only have one big game cartridge, (shudder) it would be my Model 700 with 25" Shilen in 7mm08 Rem.

Again, if you want a 300 WM in a big heavy rifle, then get one and don't look back. If your gonna shoot it a lot, take up reloading.
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Old April 17, 2018, 08:14 AM   #8
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I'm with Topnpr - I have had 2 different 300winmags, and I have liked both a lot. Only one was a R700, but at 200 yds it would hit a quarter every time for 4 shots. After that, it did start to get a little wearisome to shoot, but that's part of the trade off. It kicks harder than a lot of other rifles, but it is vastly more capable than a lot of other rifles. If you think you'll utilize those capabilities, by all means, grab it and don't look back!

I will say though, and I don't like saying it, but it's true: If you are going to primarily shoot target out to 1K yds, get the Creedmoor. Your shoulder and your bank account will thank you. For hunting or greater distances than 1k target shooting, the 300WM is your champ.

And FWIW, I like the look of that Police model... sharp!
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Old April 17, 2018, 08:30 AM   #9
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Jmr40's post nailed it.

Unless you're traveling around shooting LR matches every weekend (and based on the economics, reloading match-grade 300 Mag ammo), or you're a mil- or ex-mil honcho involved in the "Sniper Competition" game, where such shooters are just getting warmed up at 800-to-1K yards but regularly shoot to 1500yds, the Remy 700 PSS in .308 is simply the more practical and less expensive alternative.
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Old April 17, 2018, 08:45 AM   #10
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The .308 won't carry 1500 lbs of energy for elk beyond 400 yards or so.
The Win Mag will extend that dramatically. The rifle is intended to do more than ring steel.
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Old April 17, 2018, 08:52 AM   #11
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The facts I find both interesting and rather counter intuitive is how many of the 6.5mm rounds will overtake the 300 WM at longer distances. Sometimes less is more. jmr has a better handle on this than I do. I do buy into this 6.5 hook line and sinker. Mild and wild all at the same time.

But; that is one input, I also saw a recent press release where the US Marines have replaced the 308 with the 300WM as their sniper rifle. Go figure. There maybe more than just ballistic tables at work here. They are no longer using Remington, but; have gone with a high end clone of the 700. You tax dollars at work, each rifle $12,000.

So, there is finesse and elegant solution or sledge hammer solution. You can tell from my handle, I like the big hammer. Then I dont shoot a big hammer all day long (recreational target). Based on the OP 2nd post one of 6.5mm would be a much better choice. The rifle could be a lot lighter for those hunting roles. The weight is great for recreational target shooting but; it is just terrible curse for hunting.

Actually he might want 2 guns. A heavy 300WM for fun blasting away and a practical light rifle to hunt.
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Old April 17, 2018, 06:55 PM   #12
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The facts I find both interesting and rather counter intuitive is how many of the 6.5mm rounds will overtake the 300 WM at longer distances.
Not so. Other .30 cals like the .308, yes.
Not the .300 Win Mag, at any range from muzzle to 1500 yards from data I've seen. Again, the OP wants to use this for long range Elk. Most advise minimum 1500 fps and 1200-1500 lbs at impact. This eliminates the 6.5 Creedmoor at around 500 yards (or less) due to lack of energy. Not taking anything away from the 6.5's and 6's, their SD's provide for wind-cheating advantages but mass- still translates to energy for applications where energy matters.
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Old April 17, 2018, 07:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
The .308 won't carry 1500 lbs of energy for elk beyond 400 yards or so.
The Win Mag will extend that dramatically. The rifle is intended to do more than ring steel.
I am not saying that the 308 is the same as a 300 Mag, but with the right bullet it meets your requirement to 600 yards.

168 Nosler ABLR @ 2900:

2030 FPS 1500 ft lbs @ 600 yards
1780 FPS 1200 ft lbs @ 800 yards

Just sayin.....
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Old April 18, 2018, 05:17 AM   #14
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please post what powder and rifle your getting 2900 fps out of a .308.
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Old April 18, 2018, 07:39 AM   #15
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You probably won't shoot your eye out. But your shoulder may be at risk.
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Old April 18, 2018, 08:20 AM   #16
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I also saw a recent press release where the US Marines have replaced the 308 with the 300WM as their sniper rifle. Go figure. * * * They are no longer using Remington, but; have gone with a high end clone of the 700. You tax dollars at work, each rifle $12,000.
It's not just the cost. The mil branches do that because the environs of certain theaters (Afghanistan) call for really long range sniping and over-watch missions, so in that context the 300WM chambering makes sense. But if you take a hard look at the rifles themselves, they're set up with long heavy barrels, thick stocks, large, high-end/high-magnification scopes, along with the latest and greatest bipods, stock packs, slings, etc., so they end up weighing 15lbs or better. These rifles are intended for proned-out shooting from a hide, where the spotter-sniper team has likely been embedded for several days doing recon, not humping these rifles over hills and valleys hunting elk or moose.

Quote:
Based on the OP 2nd post one of 6.5mm would be a much better choice. The rifle could be a lot lighter for those hunting roles. The weight is great for recreational target shooting but; it is just terrible curse for hunting.
Exactly.

If the OP wants a 300WM for hunting use, then the platform needs to be one of the featherweight, "Mountain rifle" types, not the heavy Rem 700 PSS. Yeah, it'll be a shoulder-hammer for sure when siting-in off the bench to get the initial zero, or God-forbid if he should undertake extensive load development, , and after 3-shots the groups will begin to spread anyway due to the heating of the pencil barrel, but that last shouldn't be unexpected.

In a portable hunting rig, a 300WM is intended to be carried mostly and shot very little.

Last edited by agtman; April 18, 2018 at 05:22 PM.
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Old April 18, 2018, 04:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
168 Nosler ABLR @ 2900:

2030 FPS 1500 ft lbs @ 600 yards
1780 FPS 1200 ft lbs @ 800 yards

Just sayin.....
This is the ballistics of the 168 Accubond LR as published by Nosler:


https://fusiontables.googleuserconte...&tmplt=1&cpr=1


308 Winchester

BRAND: Trophy Grade (Long Range) Ammunition | BULLET STYLE: ABLR
PART #: 60101 | COUNT: 20 | MSRP:
BULLET WEIGHT: 168 | BBL TWIST RQMT: 1-10"
FOR USE: Deer / Elk Sized Game | LEAD-FREE: N
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yards / Muzzle Velocity(FPS) Energy(FT-LBS) Drop In Inches(100YD) Zero Drop In Inches(200YD) Zero
MUZ: 2750 2820 -1.5 -1.5
100: 2604 2528 0 1.9
200: 2457 2251 -3.7 0
300: 2315 1999 -13.5 -7.9
400: 2178 1769 -30.1 -22.6
500: 2045 1560 -54.7 -45.3
600: 1918 1371 -88.5 -77.2
700: 1795 1202 -133 -119.9
800: 1678 1050 -190.1 -175.1


Formidable, for a .308, for sure.
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Old April 18, 2018, 04:49 PM   #18
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please post what powder and rifle your getting 2900 fps out of a .308.
I should have mentioned it's not a factory load. We are drifting off the OP topic and that is probably my fault. I shoot a 24.5" Sako A7 in 308. My handloads are 2.90" OAL which is a bit longer than factory and are still well off the lands. (.100") 1:11" twist.

Since this isn't the reloading forum and my load is not a book load I will just say that my go to is a 165g (Was AccuBond, now Fed TBT) with a compressed load of Ramshot Big Game. It's legit. (PM me if you want the specific load data.)

I have also shot the 190 ABLR before the 168 was available and they were accurate, but a little slower than I liked. (2660fps @ 2.90" OAL)

I am not a long range hunter though so I went back to a "standard" bullet. (Fed TBT)

I am actually interested in the 168 ABLR for the 300 Blackout but now were really getting off topic.

I do like my 300 WSM. (Model 70 Featherweight) It is much more powerful than a 308 or an '06, but I find I don't need it since I won't shoot past 400 yards at game.
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Old April 20, 2018, 11:24 AM   #19
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I built a R700 mutt in 300 WM and I do like it and it has it's place within my collection. My main intent was shooting the Sig Saur "Reach for a Thousand" instructional class. The rifle shot outstanding at 1K with my 208 Amax / H1000 load at about 2740 fps. My 300WM is a heavy rig at 14 lbs, and I had a brake. I was able to shoot about 90 rounds the day of the class and along with my PAST recoil pad I was only a bit sore. I still shoot my 300WM at my 600 yd range occasionally but it's really overkill, and ammo is expensive and excessive barrel heat is an issue. But none the less with match loads you get flat, fast, and a whoop load of energy downrange.
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Old April 21, 2018, 01:58 PM   #20
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As for the Rem 700P I started out with the Rem 700 LTR which is the shorter version 20" brl instead of 26 an the HS stock is longer. Remington makes it simple to maintain the rifle , breaking down the bolt to change a spring to finding headspace an OAL to ogive by stripping the bolt . It's my one an only CF rifle , don't shoot any other rifle during benchrest season. Great Rifle , l shoot 308 the 300WM with the 700P would make a fine shooting rifle .

I changed the barrel after 4000+ rounds through the barrel , with the change I had it blueprinted , I changed to a Jewell trigger set at 10 ounces . Only use for benchrest . Great rifle.
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Old April 25, 2018, 09:23 PM   #21
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Quote:
please post what powder and rifle your getting 2900 fps out of a .308
Also wanted to mention that Federal has a published load of 2906 FPS from a 24" barrel with 50.5 grains of Alliant PP2000-MR.

They include it in the box when you buy their 165 Trophy Bonded Tipped bullets for reloading. They sell the 165 TBT for the 308 at about that speed as well. They call it "High Velocity" which is sure is.

https://www.federalpremium.com/ammun...ed-tip/p308tt4
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Old April 26, 2018, 06:03 AM   #22
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The 300 WM is expensive to own and shoot. It really takes a well built rifle and reloading to make this cartridge shine. It cost me about $2.00 every time I pull the trigger.
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