cabela's traditional hawken percussion rifle - Page 2

ginoe · January 5, 2009, 11:28 PM

nice tip sundance44s! i don't remember if it was on 1/2 cock when i dumped the powder down, i'll follow your advice next outing (using the pyrodex rs this time).

went to the local shop & picked up a tin of cci MAGNUM #11 caps this time & some of that aerosol spray gun cleaner, kinda smelly, dries fast & turns stuff white (like acetone). used that to clean out the gunk by the breech/nipple, it's squeaky clean/dry now.

btw - i put a bright led white light in the nipple hole & tried to peer down the muzzle to see if i could see light coming through, i didn't - but i know the area is clean & clear of obstruction.

i keep reading on the internet that the investarms should take the .75mm nipple. i have a knight red hot 75mm nipple but the threads really don't look like the original nipple threads...the knight .75mm nipple starts to thread on tight, i will not try to force/wrench it down further.

.50cal ball - investarms nipple - knight .75 nipple - t/c 10-31 ramrod ball puller

here are the threads up close: investarms nipple - knight .75 nipple

what size would the original nipple be? the investarms manual does not say but the lyman's trade rifle manual does say .75mm...
that original nipple is not .75mm (don't look like it to me anyways).

just for kicks, i tried to see if the t/c 10-31 ramrod ball puller thread would fit but it's too small/narrow & it just drops right into the hole.

thanks gang, i really appreciate the tips.

arcticap · January 6, 2009, 04:01 AM

Since the Investarms nipple is .75 and it fits, the Knight nipple must have been mispackaged or mislabeled by mistake.
I've also seen that happen within a box of ammunition.

A ramrod thread adaptor should work to convert the TC thread to fit 8-32 threads. I saw a set in the Auctionarms.com black powder section recently.

mykeal · January 6, 2009, 05:52 AM

The one on the right appears to me to be a 1/4x28 nipple.

There is no '10-31' thread. It's a 10x32.

Here are the thread specs for the most popular nipples being made today:

ginoe · January 6, 2009, 03:46 PM

yep, i figure maybe the knight nipple was mis-labeled. i've placed an order for the lyman .75mm nipples from midsouth - they arrive this friday.

hopefully i'll have all the parts i need to get this thing fired-up this weekend, i can't wait.

EDIT:

i just got a call from cabela's customer service today. they've read about my woes and apologized for the inconvenience, they're sending me a gift card in the mail!

ginoe · January 9, 2009, 08:24 PM

replacement lyman trade rifle .75mm nipples arrived today. since i have 4 of them now, i took the original nipple to the dremel & filed it down so the #11 caps could fit.

it pops the cap on the 1st hammer strike (not like before where it would take a 2nd strike).

the #11 magnum caps always pop on the 1st hammer strike no matter if i use the original nipple or the modified dremel nipple. they seem to fit much better. i did notice the #11 caps are stamped cci 10 but the magnum caps are stamed cci 11m.

mykeal · January 9, 2009, 11:19 PM

If they're stamped with a 10 then they are not No. 11's.

srm970 · February 17, 2009, 03:00 PM

nice looking rifle .. i baught one from cabelas.. a 50 cal.. i dont remember what i paid for it.. somwhere around 250 bucks 15 years ago or so.. little more since i baught the starter kit with it. the are made by investarms in italy. i have since baught another rifle from investarms.. the now dicontinued hawken carbine in .58 cal. that little gun is a handfull and kicks like a mule. i hope you have fun with yours.. i know i have with mine.

shawn

ginoe · February 17, 2009, 03:15 PM

all is well, i'm having so much fun with the rifle - i have not touched the others.

50yds, 60gr of pyrodex rs, .50cal hornady roundball, t/c prelubed .015 patch, spit/dry patch between shots - was at the range the other day getting it sighted in. after 10 shots i was satisfied with the groupings. i still had a few mins left, so i tried one last shot. rushing through it, i lost my rhythm & forgot to load the powder charge. too late,i already stuffed the prb down. i was lucky i got it out with the puller.

srm970 · February 17, 2009, 03:23 PM

i did the same thing as has my dad .. ONCE!! and you did get lucky. the threads of my puller yanked the center of the ball out.. i had to take mine to a gun smith to get it out...

shawn

FrontierGander · February 17, 2009, 03:23 PM

i have not been impressed with TC patches lately. My current bag that i am shooting up are the worse ive ever seen, loose weave and you can see big holes through out the patch. I am going back with traditions prelubed patches.

You should try some .016 or .018 pillow ticking in that cabelas hawken. I have 3 of the Sporterized hawkens. 2 50s and 1 45

ginoe · February 17, 2009, 03:44 PM

i'm still in the process of getting the groupings tighter. i did try using two .010 cabelas prelubed patches at once, i forget how that experiment ended. i'll have to bring a notebook next time.

lol, sunday i forgot the powder charge again. there was a doll that showed up at the range & i was too busy looking at her, i didn't pay attention to what i was doing.

srm970 · February 17, 2009, 04:51 PM

have you tried conicals in your rifle yet.. the cabelas rifles shoot them suprisingly well.. i also picked up one of those numatic unloaders.. and it works well for conicals.. but doesnt work well on patched round balls. one thing i have done is taken the nipple out and fed a small amount of pistol pyrodex or 4f black into the toutch hole. and it has been enough to get the ball out.

shawn

Pathfinder45 · February 17, 2009, 05:39 PM

I had the opportunity to experiment with a T.C. Hawken about 30-odd years ago..... Using real BP I found that tamping down the powder with the ramrod before seating the ball resulted in reliable ignition first try, every time. When this wasn't done the rifle invariably misfired.

FrontierGander · February 18, 2009, 03:09 AM

These rifles WILL shoot conicals really good. Ive only shot Powerbelts out of mine and they are awesome. I havent shot them yet in the 45 but will do so next week. I'll report back.

ginoe · February 18, 2009, 09:21 AM

i've got one of those co2 dischargers, it didn't work in this particular case. i was lucky the 2nd time when i tried the 'powdered nipple' trick.

what .50cal conicals do you suggest with the 1:48" twist?

Hawg · February 18, 2009, 12:00 PM

Minies would load easiest. I used Lee Reals, Maxi balls and Buffalo Bullets in mine with good results. I tried sabots but they all tumbled.

srm970 · February 18, 2009, 04:33 PM

i have used powerbelts.. they work well in that rifle.. but the best ones i have ever used as far as acuracy have been the CVA deerslayers. 300 grain.. i am not sure if they make them anymore though.. i will need to do some recerch. its been a few years since i have used the 50 for hunting. and have only used it for target shootingand competitionshooting and most of that is done with round ball.

looks like some places still sell them. by far the best acuracy for a conocal from my cabelas hawken

http://www.impactguns.com/store/043125115914.html

srm970 · February 18, 2009, 05:31 PM

i have tried sabots. didnt like how they loaded, or how they shot, and in colorado you can not use them for hunting anyway.. so no worries. LOL

ginoe · February 18, 2009, 08:31 PM

lol, i was secretly hoping someone would chime in with LEE R.E.A.L. minie

i've got a few tools, i can't wait for the weather to break so i can start casting my own. i think my next purchase is the .50cal LEE minie mold - but what grain weight would work best?

(yes, i did see the movie 'the patriot')

FrontierGander · February 20, 2009, 08:09 PM

Heres my first 3 shots today with my nephews .45cal sporterized hawken carbine. 225gn Powerbelt Aerotip, 70gn Pyrodex RS, 50 yards with poor lighting and off of my shooting sticks. This rifle has thick chunky sights on it, i may upgrade to the firestorm sights.

This is the best group i have ever shot with this rifle and conicals. It can only get better on a solid rest and good light!

ginoe · March 2, 2009, 05:03 AM

31ºF, overcast, no wind, 50yds, .50cal hornady prb, 10 shots

few changes:
2 swabs of spit patch between shots -> 2 swabs dry patch between shots
60gr pyrodex rs -> 70gr pyrodex
.015 t/c pre-lubed patch -> .018 t/c pre-lubed patch

the 3 shots down in the 3rd quadrant (thats about 8 o'clock for you non-geometry types) - were the original routine before the changes, after the changes the groups tightened up.

the 10th shot (2nd quadrant, 11 o'clock) was because the 1st trigger was not setting the hair trigger. i heard it click twice but had to pull harder on the hair trigger making me miss the bull - that's when i quit (i didn't have a small enough screwdriver to adjust the set screw).

oh yeah, happened again - i forgot the powder charge! i'm getting good at popping it out with the 'powdered nipple' trick.

arcticap · March 3, 2009, 12:36 AM

Nice shooting, you're doing great!
And I forget the powder sometimes too!

ginoe · March 9, 2009, 08:29 PM

62ºF, no wind, 50yds, .50cal hornady prb, 9 shots
2 swabs dry patch between shots
70gr pyrodex
.018 t/c pre-lubed patch
#11 cci magnum caps (instead of the regular caps)

i think i found the right combination

btw - no stuck ball this go-round, i remembered to load the charge 1st!

FrontierGander · March 9, 2009, 09:00 PM

there you go! Have you tried a wad under the patch yet?

mykeal · March 10, 2009, 06:52 AM

Yes, loading the powder first definitely improves accuracy!

Well done.

January 5, 2009, 11:28 PM	#26
ginoe Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: 10952 Posts: 25	nice tip sundance44s! i don't remember if it was on 1/2 cock when i dumped the powder down, i'll follow your advice next outing (using the pyrodex rs this time). went to the local shop & picked up a tin of cci MAGNUM #11 caps this time & some of that aerosol spray gun cleaner, kinda smelly, dries fast & turns stuff white (like acetone). used that to clean out the gunk by the breech/nipple, it's squeaky clean/dry now. btw - i put a bright led white light in the nipple hole & tried to peer down the muzzle to see if i could see light coming through, i didn't - but i know the area is clean & clear of obstruction. i keep reading on the internet that the investarms should take the .75mm nipple. i have a knight red hot 75mm nipple but the threads really don't look like the original nipple threads...the knight .75mm nipple starts to thread on tight, i will not try to force/wrench it down further. .50cal ball - investarms nipple - knight .75 nipple - t/c 10-31 ramrod ball puller here are the threads up close: investarms nipple - knight .75 nipple what size would the original nipple be? the investarms manual does not say but the lyman's trade rifle manual does say .75mm... that original nipple is not .75mm (don't look like it to me anyways). just for kicks, i tried to see if the t/c 10-31 ramrod ball puller thread would fit but it's too small/narrow & it just drops right into the hole. thanks gang, i really appreciate the tips. __________________ henry golden boy .22lr s&w m&p 15 orc t/c encore 209/50 cabelas hawken 50cal percussion Last edited by ginoe; January 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM.

January 6, 2009, 03:46 PM	#29
ginoe Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: 10952 Posts: 25	yep, i figure maybe the knight nipple was mis-labeled. i've placed an order for the lyman .75mm nipples from midsouth - they arrive this friday. hopefully i'll have all the parts i need to get this thing fired-up this weekend, i can't wait. EDIT: i just got a call from cabela's customer service today. they've read about my woes and apologized for the inconvenience, they're sending me a gift card in the mail! __________________ henry golden boy .22lr s&w m&p 15 orc t/c encore 209/50 cabelas hawken 50cal percussion Last edited by ginoe; January 7, 2009 at 03:19 PM. Reason: additional facts

January 9, 2009, 08:24 PM	#30
ginoe Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: 10952 Posts: 25	replacement lyman trade rifle .75mm nipples arrived today. since i have 4 of them now, i took the original nipple to the dremel & filed it down so the #11 caps could fit. it pops the cap on the 1st hammer strike (not like before where it would take a 2nd strike). the #11 magnum caps always pop on the 1st hammer strike no matter if i use the original nipple or the modified dremel nipple. they seem to fit much better. i did notice the #11 caps are stamped cci 10 but the magnum caps are stamed cci 11m. __________________ henry golden boy .22lr s&w m&p 15 orc t/c encore 209/50 cabelas hawken 50cal percussion

February 17, 2009, 03:15 PM	#33
ginoe Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: 10952 Posts: 25	all is well, i'm having so much fun with the rifle - i have not touched the others. 50yds, 60gr of pyrodex rs, .50cal hornady roundball, t/c prelubed .015 patch, spit/dry patch between shots - was at the range the other day getting it sighted in. after 10 shots i was satisfied with the groupings. i still had a few mins left, so i tried one last shot. rushing through it, i lost my rhythm & forgot to load the powder charge. too late,i already stuffed the prb down. i was lucky i got it out with the puller. __________________ henry golden boy .22lr s&w m&p 15 orc t/c encore 209/50 cabelas hawken 50cal percussion

February 17, 2009, 03:23 PM	#34
srm970 Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 60	LOL i did the same thing as has my dad .. ONCE!! and you did get lucky. the threads of my puller yanked the center of the ball out.. i had to take mine to a gun smith to get it out... shawn

January 6, 2009, 04:01 AM	#27
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Since the Investarms nipple is .75 and it fits, the Knight nipple must have been mispackaged or mislabeled by mistake. I've also seen that happen within a box of ammunition. A ramrod thread adaptor should work to convert the TC thread to fit 8-32 threads. I saw a set in the Auctionarms.com black powder section recently.

January 6, 2009, 05:52 AM	#28
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	The one on the right appears to me to be a 1/4x28 nipple. There is no '10-31' thread. It's a 10x32. Here are the thread specs for the most popular nipples being made today:

January 9, 2009, 11:19 PM	#31
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	If they're stamped with a 10 then they are not No. 11's.

February 17, 2009, 03:00 PM	#32
srm970 Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 60	nice looking rifle .. i baught one from cabelas.. a 50 cal.. i dont remember what i paid for it.. somwhere around 250 bucks 15 years ago or so.. little more since i baught the starter kit with it. the are made by investarms in italy. i have since baught another rifle from investarms.. the now dicontinued hawken carbine in .58 cal. that little gun is a handfull and kicks like a mule. i hope you have fun with yours.. i know i have with mine. shawn

February 17, 2009, 03:23 PM	#35
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	i have not been impressed with TC patches lately. My current bag that i am shooting up are the worse ive ever seen, loose weave and you can see big holes through out the patch. I am going back with traditions prelubed patches. You should try some .016 or .018 pillow ticking in that cabelas hawken. I have 3 of the Sporterized hawkens. 2 50s and 1 45 __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

February 17, 2009, 03:44 PM	#36
ginoe Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: 10952 Posts: 25	i'm still in the process of getting the groupings tighter. i did try using two .010 cabelas prelubed patches at once, i forget how that experiment ended. i'll have to bring a notebook next time. lol, sunday i forgot the powder charge again. there was a doll that showed up at the range & i was too busy looking at her, i didn't pay attention to what i was doing. __________________ henry golden boy .22lr s&w m&p 15 orc t/c encore 209/50 cabelas hawken 50cal percussion

February 17, 2009, 04:51 PM	#37
srm970 Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 60	have you tried conicals in your rifle yet.. the cabelas rifles shoot them suprisingly well.. i also picked up one of those numatic unloaders.. and it works well for conicals.. but doesnt work well on patched round balls. one thing i have done is taken the nipple out and fed a small amount of pistol pyrodex or 4f black into the toutch hole. and it has been enough to get the ball out. shawn

February 17, 2009, 05:39 PM	#38
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	My Limited Experience...... I had the opportunity to experiment with a T.C. Hawken about 30-odd years ago..... Using real BP I found that tamping down the powder with the ramrod before seating the ball resulted in reliable ignition first try, every time. When this wasn't done the rifle invariably misfired.

February 18, 2009, 03:09 AM	#39
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	These rifles WILL shoot conicals really good. Ive only shot Powerbelts out of mine and they are awesome. I havent shot them yet in the 45 but will do so next week. I'll report back. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

February 18, 2009, 09:21 AM	#40
ginoe Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: 10952 Posts: 25	i've got one of those co2 dischargers, it didn't work in this particular case. i was lucky the 2nd time when i tried the 'powdered nipple' trick. what .50cal conicals do you suggest with the 1:48" twist? __________________ henry golden boy .22lr s&w m&p 15 orc t/c encore 209/50 cabelas hawken 50cal percussion

February 18, 2009, 12:00 PM	#41
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Minies would load easiest. I used Lee Reals, Maxi balls and Buffalo Bullets in mine with good results. I tried sabots but they all tumbled.

February 18, 2009, 04:33 PM	#42
srm970 Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 60	i have used powerbelts.. they work well in that rifle.. but the best ones i have ever used as far as acuracy have been the CVA deerslayers. 300 grain.. i am not sure if they make them anymore though.. i will need to do some recerch. its been a few years since i have used the 50 for hunting. and have only used it for target shootingand competitionshooting and most of that is done with round ball. looks like some places still sell them. by far the best acuracy for a conocal from my cabelas hawken http://www.impactguns.com/store/043125115914.html Last edited by srm970; February 18, 2009 at 05:30 PM.

February 18, 2009, 05:31 PM	#43
srm970 Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 60	sabots i have tried sabots. didnt like how they loaded, or how they shot, and in colorado you can not use them for hunting anyway.. so no worries. LOL

February 18, 2009, 08:31 PM	#44
ginoe Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: 10952 Posts: 25	lol, i was secretly hoping someone would chime in with LEE R.E.A.L. minie i've got a few tools, i can't wait for the weather to break so i can start casting my own. i think my next purchase is the .50cal LEE minie mold - but what grain weight would work best? (yes, i did see the movie 'the patriot') __________________ henry golden boy .22lr s&w m&p 15 orc t/c encore 209/50 cabelas hawken 50cal percussion

February 20, 2009, 08:09 PM	#45
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	Heres my first 3 shots today with my nephews .45cal sporterized hawken carbine. 225gn Powerbelt Aerotip, 70gn Pyrodex RS, 50 yards with poor lighting and off of my shooting sticks. This rifle has thick chunky sights on it, i may upgrade to the firestorm sights. This is the best group i have ever shot with this rifle and conicals. It can only get better on a solid rest and good light! __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

March 2, 2009, 05:03 AM	#46
ginoe Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: 10952 Posts: 25	31ºF, overcast, no wind, 50yds, .50cal hornady prb, 10 shots few changes: 2 swabs of spit patch between shots -> 2 swabs dry patch between shots 60gr pyrodex rs -> 70gr pyrodex .015 t/c pre-lubed patch -> .018 t/c pre-lubed patch the 3 shots down in the 3rd quadrant (thats about 8 o'clock for you non-geometry types) - were the original routine before the changes, after the changes the groups tightened up. the 10th shot (2nd quadrant, 11 o'clock) was because the 1st trigger was not setting the hair trigger. i heard it click twice but had to pull harder on the hair trigger making me miss the bull - that's when i quit (i didn't have a small enough screwdriver to adjust the set screw). oh yeah, happened again - i forgot the powder charge! i'm getting good at popping it out with the 'powdered nipple' trick. __________________ henry golden boy .22lr s&w m&p 15 orc t/c encore 209/50 cabelas hawken 50cal percussion

March 3, 2009, 12:36 AM	#47
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Nice shooting, you're doing great! And I forget the powder sometimes too!

March 9, 2009, 08:29 PM	#48
ginoe Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: 10952 Posts: 25	62ºF, no wind, 50yds, .50cal hornady prb, 9 shots 2 swabs dry patch between shots 70gr pyrodex .018 t/c pre-lubed patch #11 cci magnum caps (instead of the regular caps) i think i found the right combination btw - no stuck ball this go-round, i remembered to load the charge 1st! __________________ henry golden boy .22lr s&w m&p 15 orc t/c encore 209/50 cabelas hawken 50cal percussion

March 9, 2009, 09:00 PM	#49
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	there you go! Have you tried a wad under the patch yet? __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

March 10, 2009, 06:52 AM	#50
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Yes, loading the powder first definitely improves accuracy! Well done.