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October 30, 2017, 06:09 PM | #26 |
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The point is that he tried to play the hero and it cost him his life, Nanuk. If you, or anyone else for that matter, wants to be the hero in a robbery, mass shooting, terrorist attack, or any other scenario, it's your choice to make. I still think intervening when I'm not directly being attacked is not wise and can easily lead to the escalation of an already bad situation. It's not worth the risk.
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October 30, 2017, 06:40 PM | #27 |
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First, nice take down. Looked like a wrestling move.
Second, I wish we could find out what prompted him to make the decision to act. As it is, we can only guess at his reasoning. But maybe he saw/heard something that made him feel that he had no choice but to act. It would be interesting to know, anyway. Third, he got at least a little lucky. The one thing I know for certain from sparring or even playing a game of pick-up basketball at my age (48), is that most men 20 or more years younger than me are quicker, faster, and in many cases stronger than I am. And wrestling is very physically intense. If the person you're wrestling is even just a little stronger than you, you can become completely exhausted in just a couple minutes. |
October 30, 2017, 10:28 PM | #28 | |
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The law in most jurisdictions narrowly defines the justification defense for shooting someone else. This is why we so often repeat, the criteria is NOT when CAN I SHOOT, but when do I have no alternative but to shoot. |
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October 31, 2017, 08:11 AM | #29 | ||||
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Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon. |
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October 31, 2017, 09:08 AM | #30 |
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You are correct that the situation itself would definitely determine the actions one would take. There was another situation in the news recently about a police officer by the side of the road who was being attacked, and a passing motorist stopped to help him and ended up shooting the perp. That officer would have most likely died, had the motorist not done what he did. Whether or not I would have done the same thing is something I don't know.
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October 31, 2017, 09:47 AM | #31 | |
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However, we constantly see folks post that it is the property that needs protecting as well as the lives. I could search for folks who posted that if someone steals that is reason enough to shoot. Thus, we get some folks who think the property is consideration. They are the ones who would follow the guy out the door and blaze away at his back or fleeing car. To me the decision to engage is based on the lethal threat. Tackling a guy to stop the robbery is silly. Tackling him to stop harm is reasonable. The decision, I grant you, can be difficult. So if the guy says: I ain't letting him steal - I don't buy it. If he says: I thought he was going to hurt folks - that's reasonable for an action decision. Now was this action reasonable - debatable. For the civilian - a good FOF is some similar incidents is a good thing. I was in one being the crook. The clerk knocked me down - then I unloaded 5 rounds into his inner thigh (not real bullets). The SO said to the clerk - well, that didn't work out well? Another one - I was in back of the crook who shot the clerk. Well, that was an action decision and I took him to the ground. Then his backup (unknown to me) said: Get off him - I shot him and another good guy shot him for a general gunfight started. He missed me. Now, given the crook shot the clerk, should I have taken him down or just shot him? Interesting after action discussion. If I had, would the other CHLs in the class, who didn't know who we were, shoot me in the uproar? Another one - I was a bystander - just ran out the door at speed (haha). Hint, keep running. In another run by a different group, a bystander ran out the door. The crook ran out the door and saw him - said: Oh, Hello. Then he shot him. Lesson - keep running.
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October 31, 2017, 02:55 PM | #32 | |
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If you don't (or can't) do something in this situation, you are relying on the kindness of a felon with a gun to allow you and those around you to live a little longer. I don't like the sound of that. Does anyone? My personal situation: I'm 61 years old, in reasonably good physical condition, but I'm no "tough guy". My kids are grown. My wife can't work, but the 401k is healthy. I stake my future on the blood of Jesus. Your situations may vary. We are all going to die some day. If you or I are making decisions on whether we'll die, we've got it wrong. I ask you, how do you want to die? Malignant cells eating away your flesh? Brain disintegrating until it no longer even signals life sustaining basic processes? A better question: how do you want to live? The guy in the video lives well. Very well.
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October 31, 2017, 03:42 PM | #33 | |
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Deaf
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“To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides |
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October 31, 2017, 04:34 PM | #34 |
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Everyone's world view and decision processes are individualistic.
If your mental model is dichotomous, that's your brain. If one takes into account the probabilities of an outcome for a continuum of risk, that's your brain. So if you in the store and a gun is drawn, you evaluate that you are in fear of your life. If you are in the street and see a gun is in play as they enter the store, you might easily avoid. The guys might come out of the store and run after you. So do you want to enter the store and tackle them? Got to police society as a good guy! If you are willing to die because your personal supernatural entity will take care of you, that's another part of your discriminant analysis regression equation. Perhaps it is the case that your family will be delighted with you moving off this mortal goal and getting your insurance and retirement funds. That's your business.
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