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Old October 11, 2017, 08:34 PM   #1
Centurion
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Cooper C&B revolver

Why any of the replica makers never sold a Cooper C&B?

As far as I know it was a good and reliable design of the civil war era...
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Old October 11, 2017, 08:35 PM   #2
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Not to mention the english Adams because obviously it wasn't american...
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Old October 11, 2017, 10:34 PM   #3
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Probably for two reasons. 1- it's a double action. 2- because not many people have ever heard of it. The Manhattan would be a better choice and even came in three barrel lengths. About all they would have to do to reproduce it is add 6 more cylinder notches to a 51 navy. But it's still a relatively unknown revolver.
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Old October 12, 2017, 05:45 AM   #4
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I was suggesting it because of its double action...but didn't think that such advantage in terms of operation is also a disadvantage in terms of marketing...since the vast majority of the sales for this guns is CAS and double action is not allowed there...
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Old October 12, 2017, 08:25 PM   #5
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Every so often I see a post that reads something like "They should make a reproduction of ________ cap and ball revolver, they would sell millions of them." ("They" being, of course some repro company.)

So why don't "they"? For one thing, "they" are selling all the Colt and Remington copies they can make - why mess with success? And why get involved in yet another line of guns, parts and the other stuff for what has to be a very limited market? How many Cooper copies would be sold every year? 20? 500? If anyone can show the makers that the figure will be a half million, the gun will appear as if by magic! Guaranteed.

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Old October 12, 2017, 08:40 PM   #6
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The versions that could use the current parts seem easy enough without much cost for tooling.

I'm not familiar with this Cooper's model. A 5 shot .36 without a rebated frame. Guessing nothing current would truly work.
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Old October 12, 2017, 10:21 PM   #7
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The Colt style revolvers had the rear sight on the hammer and a double action makes it pretty hard to aim accurately.
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Old October 12, 2017, 11:22 PM   #8
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Wow.

A double action Colt style cap and ball?

Now I really have seen it all. Seems there were many makers and designs of cap and balls, not just real Colts and Remys like are made now.
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Old October 13, 2017, 09:07 AM   #9
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Now I really have seen it all. Seems there were many makers and designs of cap and balls, not just real Colts and Remys like are made now.
Model12, there were a lot of single actions but only a few double actions. Check out the Tranter. A two trigger revolver that could be fired double action by pulling both triggers at once and even came in a .50 caliber. https://www.justcollecting.com/misce...nter-revolvers
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Old October 13, 2017, 01:12 PM   #10
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I have a .36 Cooper "Navy" and it shoots pretty well. The DA system is copied from British revolvers and is smooth enough, though it stacks. Not as good as the English DA revolvers of the era, but not bad.

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Old October 13, 2017, 01:30 PM   #11
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Lucky you!

I would love to have an original Adams but it is almost impossible to find one here in South America...

I thought about the Cooper because I supposed that being so similar (at least in some major parts) to a Colt, maybe it could be easier to manufacture a replica of it than an Adams...
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Old October 14, 2017, 09:16 PM   #12
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There are 4 Cooper Revolvers on Gunbroker right now.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/707950914
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/706432544
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/708412337
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/706930917

Kind of interesting.
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Old November 2, 2017, 03:44 PM   #13
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I have always wished some company would make a repro of the Kerr .44 double action revolvers.

I've once wanted to get a Pietta Starr DA, but due to the overwhelming negative reviews I put that thought away.

The Kerr was a far more reliable design and many of the troopers that served with the legendary cavalry scouts like Forrest and Morgan carried Kerr revolvers. And being a die-hard Southern sympathizer myself, I prefer to own/carry guns that were most often associated with the Confederacy.

But like what James K. and Centurion stated, guns like the Kerr/Adams etc... are not approved for SASS use and would most likely become something like the Paterson and LeMat, made in small quantities for a relatively small niche of collectors, and would be quite expensive too.
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Old November 2, 2017, 06:54 PM   #14
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Sorry, but it will be a cold day in hell before any of the repro companies make anything but Colts and Remys.

It is all the market will support. If you want something other than that, you can have a LeMat or a Paterson.
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Old November 2, 2017, 07:38 PM   #15
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I would rather have an Adams reproduction than this Cooper that I've never heard of before. Both the original .44 and the .31 copy made by Massachusetts Arms in the 1850's.

But before those, I want a replica of the Remington New Model Police revolvers, which were 5 shot .36 caliber revolvers built on a smaller frame than the New Model Army.

But Centurion is on to something here because this Cooper is basically a DA/SA open top Colt style revolver. The only work that would need to be done is changing the hand, bolt, sear, and other internal parts; the exterior would essentially be the same and it's not like Pietta or Uberti make completely true and authentic replicas of cap and ball revolvers as none of their Colt replicas have progressive rifling.

I would be interested in a double action cap and ball revolver based off the Colt, but because they don't exist, I can't buy it. Not saying I would and as somebody already said, that tooling up costs money for something that won't sell too well.

Understand, the cap and ball replica market sells to people wanting replica military firearms, not what everyday people or police were carrying back then. Were that the case, pepperbox replicas would be currently made.
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Old November 2, 2017, 10:17 PM   #16
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Understand, the cap and ball replica market sells to people wanting replica military firearms, not what everyday people or police were carrying back then. Were that the case, pepperbox replicas would be currently made.
Pepperbox kits are. As are Twister derringers, New Orleans Ace, Snake eyes and a few others. All of these used to be sold completed but not anymore.
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Old November 3, 2017, 07:18 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by TruthTellers View Post
I would rather have an Adams reproduction than this Cooper that I've never heard of before. Both the original .44 and the .31 copy made by Massachusetts Arms in the 1850's.

But before those, I want a replica of the Remington New Model Police revolvers, which were 5 shot .36 caliber revolvers built on a smaller frame than the New Model Army.

But Centurion is on to something here because this Cooper is basically a DA/SA open top Colt style revolver. The only work that would need to be done is changing the hand, bolt, sear, and other internal parts; the exterior would essentially be the same and it's not like Pietta or Uberti make completely true and authentic replicas of cap and ball revolvers as none of their Colt replicas have progressive rifling.

I would be interested in a double action cap and ball revolver based off the Colt, but because they don't exist, I can't buy it. Not saying I would and as somebody already said, that tooling up costs money for something that won't sell too well.

Understand, the cap and ball replica market sells to people wanting replica military firearms, not what everyday people or police were carrying back then. Were that the case, pepperbox replicas would be currently made.
Exactly TT...you got my point...being almost the same Colt army platform I supposed it could be adapted by changing its internal parts...
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Old November 3, 2017, 10:01 PM   #18
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Pietta makes the J H Dance revolver which is an oddball weapon with a different barrel, cylinder and frame then the usual Colts &Remmies.
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Old November 3, 2017, 11:23 PM   #19
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Pietta makes the J H Dance revolver which is an oddball weapon with a different barrel, cylinder and frame then the usual Colts &Remmies.
The Pietta Dance is not radically different than the Colt revolvers Pietta makes. It's a few differences here and there, but those differences didn't amount to having to tool up a production line.

My guess is that Pietta takes the forgings of Colt frames and machines the recoil shield off to flatten the frame. As for the cylinder, there are no steps in it, so there is no special engineering or tooling required to do that. The barrel is probably a Walker or Dragoon barrel they buy from Uberti.
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Old November 3, 2017, 11:43 PM   #20
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Before anyone rushes into setting up to make Cooper copies, be advised that while externally they look like a Colt, the lockwork is basically a combination of British ideas, and modifying Colt repro production to make Coopers would probably be both expensive and not cost effective.

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Old November 4, 2017, 03:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James K View Post
Before anyone rushes into setting up to make Cooper copies, be advised that while externally they look like a Colt, the lockwork is basically a combination of British ideas, and modifying Colt repro production to make Coopers would probably be both expensive and not cost effective.

Jim
Nobody is rushing to make Cooper cap and ball revolvers, or ANY cap and ball revolvers not offered currently.

Trust me.

There is no room in the percussion revolver market to make these oddball designs. The reason Pietta makes quite a few different and somewhat unique Confederate contract revolvers like the above mentioned Dance Bros. is simply because they are so close to either the Colts or Remingtons they currently make so little to no need to retool and design/test new parts and frames.

I think some people don't understand the investment in time and money to recreate such different actions as the Adams and Coopers, or the numerous other revolvers used during the Civil War other the Colts and Remingtons, that these companies would have to commit to... and for what? To sell maybe a couple dozen a year to the handful of people who even know what the guns are?

Trust me, I would LOVE to see NEW (well old of course) designs offered, but it won't happen. Thankfully we do have a good bit of variety as is, so it's not all bad.
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