The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 10, 2017, 02:23 PM   #1
pmsmith2032
Member
 
Join Date: October 30, 2013
Posts: 17
Ruger M77 Glass Bedding

I have a Ruger M77 30-06 with a laminate stock that I need to glass bed. I've posted about this rifle previously but basically the rifle use to shoot pretty well. To try and increase accuracy even more, I free floated the barrel a couple of years ago. Instead of making the accuracy better, it got much worse. Through experimentation I found that sliding a business card between the forearm and barrel an inch or two from the front end helped immensely. I just ordered a glass bedding kit (Araglas Gel Bedding Kit) and now need to decide where to bed exactly. Should I bed the action (behind (but not below) the recoil lug and under the chamber), the action and barrel (dab of bedding material an inch or so aft of the end on the forestock), or just the barrel? Thanks in advance!
pmsmith2032 is offline  
Old October 10, 2017, 07:21 PM   #2
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 3,720
Bed just the action, front and rear. I bed the bottom of the recoil lug and then remove a bit of it with a dremel. Some use tape instead. to me, the Dremel is easier and quicker. To each his own. I do not like doing skim bed jobs. I take enough material out of the stock to form a strong bed.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old October 11, 2017, 01:07 AM   #3
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 10,194
I would bed the action first, and then go to a pressure point on the barrel only if the action bed doesn't help.

(I would do the front and rear action areas separately, since the angled front action screw adds complication. ...So it's actually two bedding jobs before you can even test.)
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old October 11, 2017, 04:37 AM   #4
Tony Z
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 29, 2013
Location: North Central Pennsyltucky
Posts: 606
Don't M77 come with a pressure point on the front? I have an 80's vintage Ultralight, that, I believe, had a pillar installed from the factory (could also be my 65 year old memory).
Tony Z is online now  
Old October 11, 2017, 04:55 AM   #5
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 10,194
Neither M77s, nor M77 Mk IIs came with an intended factory pressure point on the barrel.

Some had warped stocks that applied pressure, but it was not engineered into the design.
Pillars, as well, were not original. If you have one, it was a modification/upgrade.
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old October 11, 2017, 09:02 AM   #6
pmsmith2032
Member
 
Join Date: October 30, 2013
Posts: 17
Thanks for the responses. Why bed the front and rear separately? Does it matter which one I do first (front or rear)?
pmsmith2032 is offline  
Old October 11, 2017, 10:21 AM   #7
cw308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2010
Location: Plainview , Long Island NY
Posts: 1,939
I bed my Remington years ago, worked out great . I used devcon , the wait time for curing is the nerve racking time . I found the video's on line very helpfull . Removing the clay was a pain .
cw308 is online now  
Old October 11, 2017, 01:52 PM   #8
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,356
"...free floated the barrel..." Guarantees nothing and your Ruger clearly dislikes it. yYu can try just putting the pressure point back in first.
"...the action and barrel(dab of bedding material an inch or so aft of the end on the forestock)..." Yep. Around the barrel band screw. Follow the directions on the Acraglas box. The idea is to make the barreled action and stock one piece.
Tape does nothing at all.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old October 11, 2017, 07:42 PM   #9
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 3,720
If a rifle shoots best with a pressure point, something is screwed up. Usually bad bedding.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old October 11, 2017, 09:44 PM   #10
Troy800
Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 2015
Posts: 26
I just bedded my M77 7mm mag with the tang safety. I installed aluminum pillars that had the angles pre cut for the front. Its a little tricky to get pillars in since the front one is angled. I easily get sub MOA. I also reload and you can do alot by playing with loads. If you use off shelf ammo you will need to experiment with different ammo and weights.

I bedded the action and rear tang. I use some tape on front and side of the recoil lug. I also bed about 1-1.5" infront of lug (up to where the chamber starts to taper). You can always dremel some out if it doesnt work.

Im a fan of free floating the barrel but every gun is different. The one problem i have with pressure points is you need a rock solid stock. If your stock moves at all with temp or humidity you may see seasonal changes as your pressure point pressure changes.

The M77 is very sensitive to torque settings. Check specs for yours. I have pillars in mine and torque front action screw to 95 inlbs. Back screw to 35 inlbs and middle screw just enough to hold trigger guard in place.

Good luck
Troy800 is offline  
Old October 12, 2017, 12:04 AM   #11
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 10,194
Quote:
Thanks for the responses. Why bed the front and rear separately? Does it matter which one I do first (front or rear)?
The front screw is angled on the M77 series of rifles. It adds complication to the job - especially if using pillars. ...And I wouldn't bed an M77, M77 Mk II, or M77 Hawkeye, unless I was installing pillars.
It's easier to do the areas separately, unless you hog out some of the stock for clearance.

It doesn't matter where you start.


Quote:
If a rifle shoots best with a pressure point, something is screwed up. Usually bad bedding.
I agree for the most part, but own a rifle that proved the theory wrong.
I had a Marlin XL7 that I wanted to drop in a better stock than the factory synthetic garbage.
I put it in a laminate stock with an aluminum bedding insert, and everything went to crap. I fought that stock for about a year, finally realizing during testing that the barrel needed a pressure point.
So, I dropped it back into the factory stock (which has built-in pressure points at the fore-end tip), and it went right back to shooting .330s.

I don't like the stock, but that action lives in the factory synthetic stock, now. (I even sold the aftermarket stock.)
Some barrels just don't like freedom...
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old October 12, 2017, 07:36 AM   #12
pmsmith2032
Member
 
Join Date: October 30, 2013
Posts: 17
Thanks! I'm not opposed to adding the aluminum pillars too but don't want to get in over my head. How exactly are these installed? I see that Brownells and Midway both sell them but I also see reviews claiming they don't fit properly. I looked up the serial number and I have a 1988 Ruger M77 with the tang safety and laminate stock. Deer season is a little over a month away so whatever I do I need to get started ASAP.
pmsmith2032 is offline  
Old October 12, 2017, 09:20 AM   #13
Picher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,334
I've bedded about 50 rifles over the years and achieved mostly spectacular results...except for two Ruger 77s.

If I had to do a 77 again, it would get pillars made from 1/2" steel tubing and would free-float the barrel. If it didn't shoot under 1 MOA, I'd consider extending the bedding a couple of inches up the barrel channel.

Forend tip bedding would be my last resort, though a guy told me that placing a shim made from a portion of a 20 gauge Winchester AA shotgun shell cured his rifle (not one I bedded).

People have said that some of the early 77s had inferior barrels and I believe it.
Picher is offline  
Old October 12, 2017, 12:51 PM   #14
Don Fischer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2017
Posts: 591
I generally free float all my barrels and bed the front and rear of the action plus recoil lug. To bed the action, use only the front action bolt. Wrap tape around the barrel at the front of the stock to keep the barrel from pulling down and lifting the rear tang at all. Fill the rear tang bolt hole and the top of the hole in the stock. I use a drill the drill small shallow hole's everywhere I will put bedding. Like that when you tighten down the front action bolt the barrel stays up and doesn't put any pressure on the rear tang to rise. I also put a layer of painter tape on the side's, bottom and front of the recoil lug.
Don Fischer is offline  
Old October 12, 2017, 01:51 PM   #15
tobnpr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2010
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 4,371
The accurateshooter.com website has a great library of articles, including this one:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/techn...illar-bedding/
__________________
Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting
07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts
Genuine Cerakote Applicator
www.biggorillagunworks.com
tobnpr is offline  
Old October 12, 2017, 02:32 PM   #16
AllenJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 11, 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,760
I bedded my M77 Mark II after putting a Hogue stock on it, made all the difference in the world. It'll shoot sub MOA now with a free floating barrel. There are a lot of video's on YouTube on bedding, one was even on a M77.
AllenJ is offline  
Old October 12, 2017, 04:24 PM   #17
lefteye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,319
Quote:
Neither M77s, nor M77 Mk IIs came with an intended factory pressure point on the barrel.
My Ruger M77 .243 which I purchased new about 40 years ago had a very distinct pressure point in the wood stock very close to the front end of the stock. With the advice of a very experienced rifleman, I removed the pressure point when I glass bedded the action and the surface at the rear of the recoil lug. Thus, the barrel was free-floated. The improvement in accuracy was terrific.

Edited to add: I also glass bedded under the chamber but not under the recoil lug.
__________________
Vietnam Veteran ('69-'70)
NRA Life Member
RMEF Life Member

Last edited by lefteye; October 12, 2017 at 06:49 PM.
lefteye is offline  
Old October 12, 2017, 05:47 PM   #18
reinert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 297
I bought my Ruger M77 brand new in 1980. I still have it; it has the tang safety and also has the factory pressure point at the end of the forearm (walnut stock).

Someone "in the know" help me out here on this question: Didn't Bill Ruger and Bob Brownell work together on the design of the M77's stock back then (70s)? The angled lug bolt was supposed to pull the action tighter into the stock, and I believe that design had the pressure point feature incorporated as part of what the potential rifle's accuracy might/could be.

My M77 is in 6MM Remington. It indeed shoots very well for a hunting rifle. I haven't had to mess with anything on it, either. It has accounted for many deer and antelope in the freezer through the years, and one elk, my first.
reinert is offline  
Old October 12, 2017, 09:48 PM   #19
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 8,547
The angled action screw used on those rifles don't lend themselves to tweaking nearly as much as other designs. To be honest they either shoot well out of the box or they don't. I've read of many guys who saw accuracy go downhill after floating the barrels. And glass bedding rarely helps.

Part of the problem it seems to me is that the design is so different that traditional methods don't work. Finding a gunsmith who specializes in Rugers may help. Maybe not.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Ruger rifles. But I've owned enough over the years to know that accuracy is hit or miss with them. Some shoot, some don't. If I end up with one that doesn't shoot it goes to another home. You can easily spend more trying to get one to shoot than you'd lose by simply selling it and buying another rifle that will shoot out of the box.
__________________
"If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong"

Winston Churchill
jmr40 is online now  
Old October 13, 2017, 01:00 AM   #20
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: 1B ID
Posts: 10,194
Quote:
I bought my Ruger M77 brand new in 1980. I still have it; it has the tang safety and also has the factory pressure point at the end of the forearm (walnut stock).
I believe you, but I've never seen it in a wood stock.

I have an early '80s M77, as well as two stocks from an '80 and an '83. None have a factory pressure point. I also look at every Ruger 77 / 77 Mk II stock that I come across (for projects). I think I've handled about 80-90 'tang-safety' stocks and 20-30 Mk II stocks at this point. I've never seen a factory pressure point in a wood stock. Abnormalities, yes. But not an intentional pressure point.

I don't know if the boat paddle Mk IIs were different. Any time I see one, the price is ridiculous. So, I don't bother looking.
__________________
"Such is the strange way that man works -- first he virtually destroys a species and then does everything in his power to restore it."
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old October 13, 2017, 01:40 AM   #21
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 5,983
Ruger/Brownell

Yeah, those two fellows collaborated on the original stock design, but I suspect that Len's input was mostly on the exterior/appearance. Ruger new what he wanted,and Brwonell came up with the stock, aesthetically.

Seems I've read the intention of the angled angled front action screw to draw the action down and back, and theoretically eliminate some of the bedding issues associated with vertical screws with down pressure only, and fitting of the recoil lug. I should add the a guy named Jim Sullivan was the lead engineer on the project....I dunno who's idea the angled bedding screw was of the three, but again, Brownell's was largely aesthetic. I'll go down to my Ruger book and check. Seems as I recall a Bill Ruger quote on this.

The Sullivan/ruger theory was good, but early versions of his rifle were sometimes compromised with barrels supplied by contractors. New rifles with Ruger barrels supposedly do much better overall.

I can rememeber another Bill Ruger comment to the effect that he wanted the rifle as sleek as possible...., then he went off on a business trip or hunting, and when he returned, the magazine capacity was higher,and the stock more beefy than he intended, but it was done, and he wanted to get it on the market, so slimming the M77 was left until the release of the MkII.
bamaranger is offline  
Old October 13, 2017, 02:00 AM   #22
lefteye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,319
Perhaps every Ruger M77 has had the forward pressure point removed because the previous owner(s) learned that it caused the rifle to shoot inaccurately. The pressure point in the Ruger walnut stock certainly affected accuracy but the effects also depended on temperature and humidity. Eliminating the pressure point variable enabled shooters (including me) to shoot my M77 more accurately, although I believe my glass bedding was a more significant factor.
__________________
Vietnam Veteran ('69-'70)
NRA Life Member
RMEF Life Member
lefteye is offline  
Old October 13, 2017, 07:37 AM   #23
reinert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 297
Ruger wood

My M77 I mentioned definitely has way more wood on the fore end that needs to be there (IMO), but it was my thought that that was probably part of the design with the angled lug and fore end tip pressure point for accuracy's sake. Interesting that you mentioned the extra wood deal. My old 10/22 (made in '66)) has lots of wood on the fore end, too; thought that that was just one of Ruger's trademarks. Again, I've never had to alter my old 6MM; a good hunting shooter, and no need to make any alterations. That rifle has near 1000 rds. through it (used to shoot prairie dogs with it), and the accuracy is still there (reload for it, too).

In the mid 80s, I had another M77 in .280 Rem. (tang safety, and wish I still had that one), and it had a very nicely figured piece of walnut, and a much sleeker fore end than my 6MM. I did have to remove the pressure point on that one (yes, it too had the barrel bump) to make it shoot. I did bed the action on that one (no pillars) to make it shoot; I did kill a couple of elk with it, but it never had the accuracy that my 6MM still does. Still, it was a good rifle. I used the 154 grn. Hornady spire point in my reloads for that rifle with good effect on elk.
reinert is offline  
Old October 13, 2017, 08:24 AM   #24
pmsmith2032
Member
 
Join Date: October 30, 2013
Posts: 17
Thanks all for the great feedback. I've been doing some more research and plan on doing the following:

1. Glass bed the front and back of the action. Are the two areas outlined in red in the picture below the two areas I need to bed?
2. File/grind down the magazine box (see picture below). I've been researching online and on another site I read how the magazine box provides pressure on the stock and should be ground down so that it is actually a little loose when the screws are tightened to spec. I checked mine and the magazine box is tight.
3. Buy a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad. Mine has the original factory pad and it kicks like a mule.
4. Take apart the trigger and polish and grease the sear and trigger (no grinding). I've adjusted the weight of pull screw and from my homemade scale I would estimate the weight of pull to be around 6 pounds. I would like to get it somewhere around 4 pounds. I contemplated buying a Rifle Basix RU-T Sear but I think I can get it close to the 4 pound mark.
5. Maybe order new receiver screws? Right now I have flat-head screws. Would allen screws be a better option?
6. Tighten the receiver screws to spec. From what I've read the front screw should be 95 inch pounds and the back two should tightened and then backed off 1/8th turn, correct?

I'll try shooting it after these mods are done. If accuracy is good, I'll call it a day. If not, I'll try adding a dab of bedding near the front of the fore-end.

Thanks again!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Glass Bedding Areas.jpg (184.6 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg Magazine Box.jpg (162.6 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg Trigger.jpg (146.9 KB, 7 views)
pmsmith2032 is offline  
Old October 13, 2017, 09:33 AM   #25
reinert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 297
Kicks like a mule...

pmsmith2032,

As to your point #3 in your last post, I too have a couple of '06s (actually 3), and I generally concur on the recoil regarding mules. I do have one of those Pac-decels as you mention, but I also have a pad I use frequently during range sessions. I got mine from Buffalo Arms, and it's a Rand Elite, a very good pad.

I used my old '68 vintage M700 ADL, '06, to tag my 4X4 Wyoming mulie just last week, and it's got the old original aluminum butt plate. At the range doing sighters, it's a sadist's delight, but not with a good pad. As I don't use a pad when hunting, I never feel the recoil at the shot; adrenaline and a shooter buck, I guess, explains that.

Check this out; a little spendy, but worth the bucks, IMO. This is the one I got, but there's more sizes.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/large-rig...oil-shield-lrs
reinert is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2017 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10184 seconds with 11 queries