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Old June 28, 2021, 08:38 AM   #26
ghbucky
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I would humbly suggest that we let a lot more facts come out about what happened before starting to assign blame. Right now all we know are some very sketchy details from news reports.

And we all know how reliable they are in their reporting.
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Old June 28, 2021, 08:51 AM   #27
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And then the officer gets off due to qualified immunity.
Colorado no longer has qualified immunity. The liberal left legislature passed a bill, which Polis signed on Juneteenth in 2020 eliminating it.
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Old June 28, 2021, 09:27 AM   #28
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I was not there. I'm not declaring anyone innocent and I'm not going to criticize anyone but Troyke at least till legit investigation results come out.

I can understand discretely overwatching the scene with no gun showing.

I cannot particularly understand why anyone would want to disturb any of the scene evidence,including the AR-15. I assume Troyke was dead.The AR-15 is inanimate. It can rest in place.

I don't say that to armchair quarterback. I just don't understand.

I'm not trained as a LEO. If a man is standing over a down LEO with an AR-15 in his hands my adrenaline jolt would tell me I could easily be one second from getting hit. Thats not a lot of time to think it over.

Sure,from here I can say the Cop messed up.

But the Cop and I are both Human Beings. Fog of War is a thing.

Its Troyke who is responsible for the whole situation.
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Old June 28, 2021, 11:06 AM   #29
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I was not there. I'm not declaring anyone innocent and I'm not going to criticize anyone but Troyke at least till legit investigation results come out.

I can understand discretely overwatching the scene with no gun showing.

I cannot particularly understand why anyone would want to disturb any of the scene evidence,including the AR-15. I assume Troyke was dead.The AR-15 is inanimate. It can rest in place.

I don't say that to armchair quarterback. I just don't understand.

I'm not trained as a LEO. If a man is standing over a down LEO with an AR-15 in his hands my adrenaline jolt would tell me I could easily be one second from getting hit. Thats not a lot of time to think it over.

Sure,from here I can say the Cop messed up.

But the Cop and I are both Human Beings. Fog of War is a thing.

Its Troyke who is responsible for the whole situation.
The cop didn't mess up; unfortunately, the guy with the AR did.
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Old June 28, 2021, 11:39 AM   #30
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The cop didn't mess up; unfortunately, the guy with the AR did.
What do you know that know one else does about the officer involved.
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Old June 28, 2021, 03:44 PM   #31
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I cannot particularly understand why anyone would want to disturb any of the scene evidence,including the AR-15. I assume Troyke was dead.The AR-15 is inanimate. It can rest in place.
How would you know there was only one shooter involved?
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Old June 28, 2021, 04:40 PM   #32
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I cannot particularly understand why anyone would want to disturb any of the scene evidence,including the AR-15. I assume Troyke was dead.
Why would you assume that? More to the point -- in the heat of the moment, why would a good Samaritan assume that the bad guy he just shot is dead or, at least, completely neutralized? That could be a VERY dangerous assumption. I don't fault him at all for wanting to get the rifle away from the downed shooter, but he should have just kicked it a few paces away rather than picking it up.
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Old June 28, 2021, 06:48 PM   #33
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How would you know there was only one shooter involved?
Good point . All the more reason to stay with cover and not approach Troyke.

OK, I don't know that Hurley knew Troyke was dead. I heard an unconfirmed bit of info I did not repeat . It would confirm Troyke was dead. But it may be misinformation. I'm not going to spread it.
I'll just suggest its possible Hurley first went to Troyke before he went to the weapon.

I did NOT say "Troyke was dead" I said "I assume" While that might be inappropriate on scene,its not so bad typing a post making a different point.
I don't care if he was dead or not.

IMO....or what I would hope I would do, Is remain with cover . Why on earth would I need to approach Troyke or the gun?

If Troyke appears to recover and become a threat again,then shoot him again. From cover,with a fresh magazine. Steady and supported.
WHICH IS 20/20 HINDSIGHT.

I am not the person just done with a gunfight,and I have not just killed my first man.
(Hey critics!! JUMP ON THAT!! How do I know he just killed his first man? ASSUMPTION!! He might be a regular Billy the Kid!! Its OK. I know its the moment you reactionary critics live for. Its like launching a clay bird in front of a trap shooter!! The same critics seldom write an original post, They wait in the wings,lurking...till they see a NIT to Pick!! Then they can show their GENIUS!! Not the greatest thing about TFL)

The important points,from my point of view:

If Troyke is just laying there,why do I need to walk up to him? Why do I need to do ANYTHING with the gun?

Cleaning up the scene is THE COPS JOB.

Having said that, I DO NOT FAULT HURLEY AT ALL!! He was a Hero who did the best he could. He stopped a killer.

I'm not faulting anyone but Troyke, which I clearly said before.

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Old June 28, 2021, 07:41 PM   #34
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Colorado no longer has qualified immunity. The liberal left legislature passed a bill, which Polis signed on Juneteenth in 2020 eliminating it.
All the more reason the cop should have been more careful in not pulling the trigger.

It will be interesting to see if any charges are forthcoming.
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Old June 29, 2021, 07:46 AM   #35
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What do you know that know one else does about the officer involved.
Everything
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Old June 29, 2021, 08:11 AM   #36
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The processional for Officer Beesley is forming up and some roads are starting to be closed. Have a few LEO friends in the processional.
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Old June 29, 2021, 09:56 AM   #37
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Rest in Peace Officer Beesley.
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Old July 12, 2021, 10:12 PM   #38
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Qualified immunity doesn't have anything to do with immunity from criminal charges. It is a legal protection afforded to government employees for civil litigation, mostly designed to reduce frivolous lawsuits. Colorado can eliminate qualified immunity in state courts, but it will still be applicable to any federal civil rights lawsuits. If a prosecutor or a grand jury decides to indict a police officer or other government employee for a criminal violation, qualified immunity plays no role.
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Old July 12, 2021, 10:27 PM   #39
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No one here has provided adequate information to criticize the responding officer who killed the good Samaritan. The lesson we can glean from the information we have is that you DO NOT want to pick up the criminals gun, especially a rifle. Being at the scene of an officer murder holding a long gun makes you look very suspect. This is not to say simply holding a long gun should result in your being shot by responding officers, but it does increase your chances of being engaged. Imagine the responding officer approached Hurley from behind and issued a standard, "Police Don't Move" challenge, to which Hurley naturally reacted to by turning towards the speaker. How much leeway does he get? There are so many factors that play into this split second decision, I'm not sure its even fair to postulate.

If you feel your are able to safely approach and want to secure the rifle, just stand on it. Put your gun away and hold your hands up, palms out.

If you've got medical training, go to work on the downed cop if he isn't clearly deceased.
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Old July 13, 2021, 07:37 AM   #40
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The cop didn't mess up; unfortunately, the guy with the AR did.
There is a message here: Don't be standing at the crime scene holding a firearm when the police show up.
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Old July 13, 2021, 10:27 AM   #41
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With all shootings here in Co and last one in Boulder. I think officer did what he was trained to do.
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Old July 13, 2021, 10:48 AM   #42
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Two good men are dead because of one lunatic. I've seen some of the information not released to the public and will say this, in general. Don't assume and jump to conclusions before the facts are out, one way or the other.

When I work on a shooting reconstruction, I read the papers/media and it is typical for there to be inaccuracies in what is publicly reported.
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Old July 13, 2021, 12:55 PM   #43
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I would think if something is wrong Hurley family get lawyer and my have waiting on results. I would hope no one forward your post if they have one.
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Old July 13, 2021, 01:10 PM   #44
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I would think if something is wrong Hurley family get lawyer and my have waiting on results. I would hope no one forward your post if they have one.
I hope they get a good lawyer to review the case, regardless of charges or outcome.

I don't understand what you mean by the last sentence.
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Old October 3, 2021, 03:22 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by ghbucky
For those of that carry, it is a good idea to spend some time thinking about the aftermath of a shooting and how to ensure that you are not perceived as a threat.
I think Hurley could have reduced his chances of being mistaken for a bad guy if he had hung a concealed weapons license badge around is neck.
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Old October 3, 2021, 05:14 PM   #46
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I think Hurley could have reduced his chances of being mistaken for a bad guy if he had hung a concealed weapons license badge around is neck.
Only to be charged with impersonating a police officer in that a "reasonable person" would assume the badge was a law enforcement badge.
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Old October 3, 2021, 05:30 PM   #47
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Only to be charged with impersonating a police officer in that a "reasonable person" would assume the badge was a law enforcement badge.
Better than being shot dead by the responding cop.
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Old October 3, 2021, 08:11 PM   #48
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First of all, there's no such thing as a "concealed weapons license badge" from a legal standpoint. States issue either permits or licenses, not badges.

Second, there's no need to pretend to have a badge to keep from getting shot by responding LE.
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Old October 3, 2021, 08:36 PM   #49
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Not from a legal standpoint, but the badges certainly exist. They're for sale all over the Internet.

https://maxarmory.com/collections/ba...d-carry-badges
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Old October 3, 2021, 10:00 PM   #50
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Not from a legal standpoint...
Weird isn't it.

It's almost as if I included the prepositional clause: 'from a legal standpoint' in my post for a reason as opposed to just inserting it randomly.
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