Some questions about Vietnam era machine guns

AVP · August 10, 2002, 06:42 PM

I'm looking for the name of a hand held rotary-fire machine gun used in the Vietnam War. I tried a google search but only came up with ones that mount on helicopters. It looks like the one used in Arnold Schwartzenegger's movie "Predator" but I'm not sure if that one is of the correct era.

My second question/request is; can someone please post a link or maybe even pictures of an M60? My Father used this gun a lot in the war, and I would like to get some pictures and info for him.

Thanks

Angelo

MrPink · August 10, 2002, 07:23 PM

Not to say for sure, but I think a hand held minigun is only for the movies. Lugging a thousand or three rounds to feed that beast WOULD require Arnold.

For M60 pics check out autoweapons.com - the automatic weapons link.

AVP · August 10, 2002, 07:53 PM

Thanks for the link psp! I think you're right about the mini gun. It would be way too heavy carring all that ammo.

dustindu4 · August 10, 2002, 08:12 PM

The Predator minigun I believe is now privately owned on NFA. There are several other miniguns in the NFA registry that people own, even 20mm Vulcan miniguns. I recently saw one of the 20mm guns selling for $150k. Trouble is with these guns is that they shoot 6,000 rounds per minute. Image how much a day at the range costs.....

ACP230 · August 10, 2002, 09:19 PM

Another site for gun pics is Security Arms, www.securityarms.com. There are several pics of the M60 there. Lots of other gun pics too.

C.R.Sam · August 10, 2002, 10:22 PM

Quote:

I'm looking for the name of a hand held rotary-fire machine gun used in the Vietnam War.

Fictional movie stuff.
Machine guns.
The staples for us and the French were the M-2 .50cal and the 1919 .30cal. And then in the M60 .762 NATO pretty much replaced the older .30 cal.

Sam

swampgator · August 11, 2002, 09:22 PM

Quote:

There are several other miniguns in the NFA registry that people own, even 20mm Vulcan miniguns.

I don't think I consider anything in 20mm to be "mini"!

KSFreeman · August 11, 2002, 09:26 PM

Hand-held minigun? Have you tried Hollywierd?

No, wait, just hang out at the gun shoppe. Someone will come in and tell you all about it when he carried one when he was hunting "the Cong" in SEEL Team 37.5.

dustindu4 · August 11, 2002, 09:51 PM

Quote:

I don't think I consider anything in 20mm to be "mini"!

you're right. The 20mm Vulcan gun are called chainguns. Same principle. The handheld portable miniguns are chambered in .308 NATO.

max popenker · August 13, 2002, 12:26 AM

Quote:

you're right. The 20mm Vulcan gun are called chainguns. Same principle. The handheld portable miniguns are chambered in .308 NATO.

WRONG! the 20mm M61 "Vulcan", as well as 7.62mm/.308 M134 "Minigun" are known as Gatling guns.

Chain guns are single barrel, electrically powered guns from XM34 in 7.62mm NATO and up to Bushmaster IV cannon in 40mm, IIRC. Chain guns are also electrically powered BUT have only one barrel (while gatlings usually have 3 to 7 barrels).

Neither gun is a man-portable and mostly used on vehicles and aircrafts.

as of hand-helg Miniguns, you can't hold a 30+ lbs gun with some 400+ lbs of recoil on full rate of fire. 1000 rds of ammunition will add another 50+ lbs or more. even a 5.56mm/.223 XM234 Micro-gun cannot be referred as a hand-held and actually is used on some light helicopters, due to large ammo consumption and huge recoil and requirements for stable firing platform and external power supply.

rock_jock · August 14, 2002, 05:10 PM

I thought I remember reading somewhere that the minigun requires something like 75 lbs of batteries to operate it. Confirmation?

Quartus · August 14, 2002, 05:35 PM

Can't imagine why you'd want to run it on batteries. Vehicular mounting lets you run off the vehicle's power.

That's one more reason why it's not hand held - ain't no batteries big enough that are man portable.

Max, thanks for the solid answer on Gatling guns vs. chain guns. I see that boo-boo from time to time and it bugs me! You laid it out well. I might add that it's basically an electric powered revolver.

Any idea where it got the name 'chain gun'?

KSFreeman · August 14, 2002, 06:46 PM

max, I have seen SEEL Team 37.5 members using hand-held .308 Gatlings when jumping out of black helicopters. I have to stay up late and wear a tinfoil hat so they will not detect me.

Dave Haven · August 17, 2002, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Any idea where it got the name 'chain gun'?

The bolt is driven back and forth by a chain and sprocket mechanism.

Quote:

I thought I remember reading somewhere that the minigun requires something like 75 lbs of batteries to operate it. Confirmation?

From what I've read, it requires a 28 volt 400 amp power supply.

fal308 · August 19, 2002, 11:12 AM

If you've got the Dillon video Machine Gun Magic there's a clip showing teh inner workings of a chain gun, chain and all.

buzz_knox · August 19, 2002, 11:18 AM

The M-134 was widely used in Vietnam as armament for helicopters (door/fixed guns on Hueys and turret guns on Cobras), along with the T-34 Dragonfly and the C-47 gunship conversions (Spooky?). There were no "hand held" versions.

The weapon in Predator was, I believe, the 5.56 mm variant. The nomenclature escapes me for the moment. GE was developing a ground based system called the "Six Pack" that would have made it a crew served weapon using a tripod. Theoretically, one person could lift it and fire it, but the recoil would have put said person on his/her tail. It would not have been individually portable.

DAVID NANCARROW · August 19, 2002, 11:33 AM

The Army screwed around with the idea of a man-portable 7.62 or 5.56 gatling gun briefly in the 1970's. Don't have the particulars on it, but the idea was abandoned because of everything listed above, weight of the weapon/ammo/controllability. I was a 16R in the 1970's for a while (Vulcan 20mm crewman) and the gun used a drive motor of about 50% of the power used by the air force planes, so we got only 3000 RPM out of it. I cannot imagine what the man-portable would be like.
The S/P version (XM163-on a 113 APC chassis) used 3 ni-cad batteries-2 for the turret/radar and one for the gun drive. The towed model (XM167 behind a Gamma goat) used one ni-cad battery and a 5KW generator. Fun to shoot, whether at aerial or ground targets. The S/P used a 2000 round drum which had to be timed to the declutching feeder and another feeder at the top which was timed to the cannon itself. Had two muzzle clamps on it-one was a conventional and the other was a spreader clamp which bent the barrel line up into an ellipse which was mainly for air defense targets. The radar was pretty much useless as it was range only-better to use Kentucky windage, especially if you were firing high explosive incindiary tracer.

James K · August 19, 2002, 03:53 PM

When the first mini-guns appeared, one was exhibited at an American Ordnance Association (as it was then known) meeting in Washington. I suggested to the General Electric rep that they put a hand crank on it and sell it through the home appliance division. They never did, darn it!

Jim

August 10, 2002, 06:42 PM	#1
AVP Member Join Date: July 9, 2002 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 48	Some questions about Vietnam era machine guns I'm looking for the name of a hand held rotary-fire machine gun used in the Vietnam War. I tried a google search but only came up with ones that mount on helicopters. It looks like the one used in Arnold Schwartzenegger's movie "Predator" but I'm not sure if that one is of the correct era. My second question/request is; can someone please post a link or maybe even pictures of an M60? My Father used this gun a lot in the war, and I would like to get some pictures and info for him. Thanks Angelo

August 10, 2002, 07:23 PM	#2
MrPink Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2000 Posts: 165	Not to say for sure, but I think a hand held minigun is only for the movies. Lugging a thousand or three rounds to feed that beast WOULD require Arnold. For M60 pics check out autoweapons.com - the automatic weapons link. __________________ LEGALIZE FREEDOM "Yeah, that's easy for you to say, you're Mr. White, you have a cool sounding name. Alright look, if it's no big deal to be Mr. Pink, you wanna trade?"

August 10, 2002, 09:19 PM	#5
ACP230 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2000 Posts: 708	Another site for gun pics is Security Arms, www.securityarms.com. There are several pics of the M60 there. Lots of other gun pics too. __________________ "To disarm the people (is) the best & most effectual way to enslave them." George Mason.

August 11, 2002, 09:26 PM	#8
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Hand-held minigun? Have you tried Hollywierd? No, wait, just hang out at the gun shoppe. Someone will come in and tell you all about it when he carried one when he was hunting "the Cong" in SEEL Team 37.5. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

August 14, 2002, 05:35 PM	#12
Quartus Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,823	Can't imagine why you'd want to run it on batteries. Vehicular mounting lets you run off the vehicle's power. That's one more reason why it's not hand held - ain't no batteries big enough that are man portable. Max, thanks for the solid answer on Gatling guns vs. chain guns. I see that boo-boo from time to time and it bugs me! You laid it out well. I might add that it's basically an electric powered revolver. Any idea where it got the name 'chain gun'? __________________ . Better to know what you don't know than to think you know what you don't know.

August 10, 2002, 07:53 PM	#3
AVP Member Join Date: July 9, 2002 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 48	Thanks for the link psp! I think you're right about the mini gun. It would be way too heavy carring all that ammo.

August 10, 2002, 08:12 PM	#4
dustindu4 Member Join Date: April 20, 2002 Location: NH Posts: 44	The Predator minigun I believe is now privately owned on NFA. There are several other miniguns in the NFA registry that people own, even 20mm Vulcan miniguns. I recently saw one of the 20mm guns selling for $150k. Trouble is with these guns is that they shoot 6,000 rounds per minute. Image how much a day at the range costs.....

August 14, 2002, 05:10 PM	#11
rock_jock Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Location: SE Texas Posts: 1,779	I thought I remember reading somewhere that the minigun requires something like 75 lbs of batteries to operate it. Confirmation?

August 14, 2002, 06:46 PM	#13
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	max, I have seen SEEL Team 37.5 members using hand-held .308 Gatlings when jumping out of black helicopters. I have to stay up late and wear a tinfoil hat so they will not detect me. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

August 19, 2002, 11:12 AM	#15
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	If you've got the Dillon video Machine Gun Magic there's a clip showing teh inner workings of a chain gun, chain and all.

August 19, 2002, 11:18 AM	#16
buzz_knox Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Knoxville, in the Free State of Tennesse Posts: 4,190	The M-134 was widely used in Vietnam as armament for helicopters (door/fixed guns on Hueys and turret guns on Cobras), along with the T-34 Dragonfly and the C-47 gunship conversions (Spooky?). There were no "hand held" versions. The weapon in Predator was, I believe, the 5.56 mm variant. The nomenclature escapes me for the moment. GE was developing a ground based system called the "Six Pack" that would have made it a crew served weapon using a tripod. Theoretically, one person could lift it and fire it, but the recoil would have put said person on his/her tail. It would not have been individually portable.

August 19, 2002, 11:33 AM	#17
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	The Army screwed around with the idea of a man-portable 7.62 or 5.56 gatling gun briefly in the 1970's. Don't have the particulars on it, but the idea was abandoned because of everything listed above, weight of the weapon/ammo/controllability. I was a 16R in the 1970's for a while (Vulcan 20mm crewman) and the gun used a drive motor of about 50% of the power used by the air force planes, so we got only 3000 RPM out of it. I cannot imagine what the man-portable would be like. The S/P version (XM163-on a 113 APC chassis) used 3 ni-cad batteries-2 for the turret/radar and one for the gun drive. The towed model (XM167 behind a Gamma goat) used one ni-cad battery and a 5KW generator. Fun to shoot, whether at aerial or ground targets. The S/P used a 2000 round drum which had to be timed to the declutching feeder and another feeder at the top which was timed to the cannon itself. Had two muzzle clamps on it-one was a conventional and the other was a spreader clamp which bent the barrel line up into an ellipse which was mainly for air defense targets. The radar was pretty much useless as it was range only-better to use Kentucky windage, especially if you were firing high explosive incindiary tracer.

August 19, 2002, 03:53 PM	#18
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	When the first mini-guns appeared, one was exhibited at an American Ordnance Association (as it was then known) meeting in Washington. I suggested to the General Electric rep that they put a hand crank on it and sell it through the home appliance division. They never did, darn it! Jim

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