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Old January 25, 2019, 06:08 PM   #26
TBM900
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Originally Posted by pete2 View Post
Ruger is cast steel, no way it will tolerate hotter loads than an L frame S&W.
Inner-nets BS repeated by people that know nothing of metallurgy.
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Old January 25, 2019, 08:33 PM   #27
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I'm starting to understand the attitude of some people who've been on these forums for years. "Another Ruger vs. S&W thread?!?"

Both tend to be decent quality. In my personal experience, older models seem to have more attention to fit and finish. Some of the cost-saving measures like MIM parts on new guns aren't inspiring but haven't failed me. The lock hole on modern Smith and Wesson revolvers is still a major concern. Even if lock failure is radically rare, it can still happen. The fact that it is an extra and totally unnecessary system is where the real problem lies. The knowledge that it exists because of pressure from the anti-gun lobby makes it an on-gun reminder of the forces trying so hard to violate our rights.

I can't tell if the Ruger triggers have gotten worse from the factory of if I'm just getting older. In my personal experience, a new 686 definitely has a nicer trigger than a new GP100 and the LCR has a slightly nicer trigger than a new J-frame. I've heard that these Match Champ models have a better trigger out of the box. I haven't held one yet though so I don't know.
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Old January 25, 2019, 09:00 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon View Post
I'm starting to understand the attitude of some people who've been on these forums for years. "Another Ruger vs. S&W thread?!?"

Both tend to be decent quality. In my personal experience, older models seem to have more attention to fit and finish. Some of the cost-saving measures like MIM parts on new guns aren't inspiring but haven't failed me. The lock hole on modern Smith and Wesson revolvers is still a major concern. Even if lock failure is radically rare, it can still happen. The fact that it is an extra and totally unnecessary system is where the real problem lies. The knowledge that it exists because of pressure from the anti-gun lobby makes it an on-gun reminder of the forces trying so hard to violate our rights.

I can't tell if the Ruger triggers have gotten worse from the factory of if I'm just getting older. In my personal experience, a new 686 definitely has a nicer trigger than a new GP100 and the LCR has a slightly nicer trigger than a new J-frame. I've heard that these Match Champ models have a better trigger out of the box. I haven't held one yet though so I don't know.


Have to agree with most of your post, but I seem to find that most of the GP100s that I have purchased of late, have had pretty good DA triggers out of the box. I bought a Lipsey’s 5” .357 and a 5” 327 in 2018. The SA needs attention, but after working the action a little, the DA pulls are nice.


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Old January 26, 2019, 07:58 AM   #29
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I took him to the range and was very pleased with the trigger pulls. I have a tendency to stage in double action. This one seems eager to smoothly stage until just before release. Don't know how you could engineer that. The result though, is great accuracy, just about the same as single action. I'm not really a "shooter" though. As of now, I shoot this guy better in double action than any of my Smiths. I also shoot it better than my other GP100. Maybe there is something to the extra care supposedly given these Match Champions.
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Old January 26, 2019, 08:50 AM   #30
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Guys, a new gun out of time ain't because the works are delicate, it's because of poor quality control. We get poor quality from a lot of firearms makers now days. This includes Ruger and S&W from my experience. I had a gun replaced by Ruger and then had to send the replacement back on warranty--for instance. I've also sent S&Ws back on warranty and Browning, repaired Kimber myself. The list goes on. As far as strength never blew up a S&W or a Ruger. I do re;late Ruger trigger pulls to Mattell cap guns. I've never owned a Ruger of any kind that didn't need a trigger job except my LC9, it is what it is but it is light and smooth. Most don't like it tho. I did have to file a burr off the firing pin to get a hitch out of it. I shoot Rugers and S&W but I get tired of hearing the Ruger is stronger and tougher, it ain't it's just bigger and heavier. If you blow up either one it's because someone did something stupid.
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Old January 26, 2019, 08:54 AM   #31
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Right.
Back in the Good Old Days, Jeff Cooper said that in the only test to destruction he knew of, a Super Blackhawk blew up before a Model 29 but since it was approaching triple loads, he did not think it signified much.
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Old January 26, 2019, 09:56 AM   #32
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Right.

Back in the Good Old Days, Jeff Cooper said that in the only test to destruction he knew of, a Super Blackhawk blew up before a Model 29 but since it was approaching triple loads, he did not think it signified much.


Today, there is no real reason to feel that either would self destruct shooting normal loads. Yet, on the comment of a Super Blackhawk vs a Mod 29, check with some of the older silhouette shooters. The 29s would shoot loose while the Super Blackhawks would keep shooting.

I’m not about to rid myself of my Smiths, but Ruger does make a pretty good DA revolver.


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Old January 26, 2019, 02:09 PM   #33
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Guys, a new gun out of time ain't because the works are delicate, it's because of poor quality control. We get poor quality from a lot of firearms makers now days. This includes Ruger and S&W from my experience. I had a gun replaced by Ruger and then had to send the replacement back on warranty--for instance. I've also sent S&Ws back on warranty and Browning, repaired Kimber myself. The list goes on. As far as strength never blew up a S&W or a Ruger. I do re;late Ruger trigger pulls to Mattell cap guns. I've never owned a Ruger of any kind that didn't need a trigger job except my LC9, it is what it is but it is light and smooth. Most don't like it tho. I did have to file a burr off the firing pin to get a hitch out of it. I shoot Rugers and S&W but I get tired of hearing the Ruger is stronger and tougher, it ain't it's just bigger and heavier. If you blow up either one it's because someone did something stupid.


Pete, a couple of things...
The majority of Smith revolvers I’ve seen out of time we’re not new. Most were shot, and almost all were dry fired a lot. Firing or dry firing a DA revolver means that the cylinder has to come to a rest after the torque. My 19s (all five) were timed from the factory to lock up just about the time the sear breaks. This can make for a really nice DA pull, also makes critical timing all the more critical.
While this lock up is nice for PPC shooting as was conducted years ago, it isn’t as relevant for constant faster pulls. Rugers lock up so fast, it’s almost impossible for one to go out of time, unless it becomes seriously worn. I’m not saying it can’t happen, it just isn’t as likely.

As far as Ruger being stronger because of its size, well the frame is larger, but the cylinder on a L frame has a greater circumference. This also explains why Ruger seems to be having problems with their 7 shot GP 100s.


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Old January 27, 2019, 05:59 PM   #34
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This also explains why Ruger seems to be having problems with their 7 shot GP 100s.
I haven't heard this before. What have been the "problems"?
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Old January 27, 2019, 06:51 PM   #35
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Ruger GP100 Match Champ

It seems there is trouble extracting cases. The case heads are very close together. With some ammo manufacturers’ standards, the case heads are touching. After firing, extraction becomes difficult. I realize there is a SAAMI standard, but there are variances that manufactures take.

Ruger GP-100, 7 shot Two threads merged
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...8&share_type=t

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Old January 29, 2019, 06:07 PM   #36
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Arquebus, I've handled a Match Champion or two, and like them. The grips even fit me. I've owned several 686s since they were first introduced, and would have no qualms about shooting copious quantities of factory .357 ammo, to include Buffalo Bore, etc., through either the Ruger or the 686. As to any timing issues, been there, done that. As mentioned, that's just factory QC, not a delicacy issue. IF, I buy another medium frame DA revolver, it'll likely be one of those 10MM GP100s. If so, it will get used with the "real" 10MM ammo, with no concerns whatsoever about durability
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Old February 10, 2019, 04:28 AM   #37
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Arquebus, I've handled a Match Champion or two, and like them. The grips even fit me. I've owned several 686s since they were first introduced, and would have no qualms about shooting copious quantities of factory .357 ammo, to include Buffalo Bore, etc., through either the Ruger or the 686. As to any timing issues, been there, done that. As mentioned, that's just factory QC, not a delicacy issue. IF, I buy another medium frame DA revolver, it'll likely be one of those 10MM GP100s. If so, it will get used with the "real" 10MM ammo, with no concerns whatsoever about durability
Are talking about one of the TALO exclusive ones rock185?
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Old February 11, 2019, 02:47 PM   #38
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Silvermane 1, Don't know. Thought they were just regular production Rugers. Chambered in .357, 4.2" barrel, Hogue wood grips,etc. First I handled couple years ago IIRC, had fixed rear sight, more recent gun had adjustable rear sight.
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Old February 11, 2019, 05:29 PM   #39
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I hate the wood grips on the match champion gp100 also, this is 10MM I went back to the original inserts from Altamont
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Old February 11, 2019, 06:19 PM   #40
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I hate the wood grips on the match champion gp100 also, this is 10MM I went back to the original inserts from Altamont
Do all the 10mm Match Champions look like that one? I thought that the beveling/tapering at the front of the cylinder was on all the Match Champions but I can't see it on that one.
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Old February 11, 2019, 10:24 PM   #41
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Match Champ is a great shooter. Bought one when it first came out. It’s supposed to be a out of the box competition piece but in my opinion it does it all. Takes some weight off the GP-100 and adds some refinement. Fluted cylinder, barrel crown Etc. No new SW in .357 even comes close in quality and shootability.
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Old February 12, 2019, 12:47 AM   #42
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I was refering to 10mm Auto TALO exclusive Match Champions there rock185.
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Old February 12, 2019, 01:28 AM   #43
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I would echo the sentiment expressed earlier: You can't go wrong with either. Enjoy what you have. Purchase a bucket load of ammo. Enjoy your 2nd Ammendment right to bear arms.
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Old February 14, 2019, 02:11 AM   #44
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Don't think the 10mm can have/use the tapered cylinder, as I know Clements Custom Guns states they can't do 10mm conversions on the .357 Match Champions due to the tapered cylinder.
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Old February 15, 2019, 12:08 AM   #45
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Interesting. Learned something new!
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Old February 15, 2019, 09:39 AM   #46
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I also was looking at the 10mm gp100's. I'd probably shoot some .40s&w out of it at the range to save a little on ammo cost.
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Old Yesterday, 05:04 AM   #47
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I also was looking at the 10mm gp100's. I'd probably shoot some .40s&w out of it at the range to save a little on ammo cost.
Well like posted Siggy-06 those are TALO exclusive, so if you buy one of 10mm GP-100 do it soon.
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Old Yesterday, 09:30 AM   #48
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Match Champion in 10 mm is in the regular line.
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Old Yesterday, 10:30 AM   #49
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I believe the 3 in. barreled 10mm's are Talo exclusives.
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Old Yesterday, 11:45 AM   #50
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I would think that a 10mm in 3" would be ill mannered and wind up being a 40 S&W...the same treatment we give 357 Magnum guns that aren't big enough to handle the cartridge and serve as 38 Specials. I have a GP100 3" that is 41 Special by Clement and it can be a handful. I don't shoot well with it, but my Match Champion in 357 is no problem at all.
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