Savage Model 10 Stealth Poor Groups First Time Out

[dakota.potts]

Recently I bought my first rifle in many months, intending to get back into the Precision Rifle Series Production Division.

I got a Savage Model 10 BA Stealth in 6.5 Creedmoor which I was overall pretty happy with. Being on a budget, I also equipped it with the following:
Stoner Engineering Ar-10 Muzzle Brake
Champion Swivel Bipod
Athlon Argos 6-24X50 Scope
Weaver Tactical six-screw rings.

Being that I wanted the reticle to be dead level for long range and I no longer have tools to do that, I paid another local gunsmith what was in my opinion too much money to mount the scope, level it, bore sight it, and torque it to spec.

Today I brought it to the range with three types of ammunition
Winchester 125 grain Expanding Tip (don't remember the brand name but have the box)
Federal Gold Medal Berger 130 Grain
American Eagle OTM 140 Grain

I fired close to 50 rounds today, expecting at least one of the above cartridges to group at least around 1 MOA 5-round groups. I have used the Gold Medal and American Eagle in other rifles and it has done well even to extended ranges.

After getting it sighted in pretty close to zero (not being too concerned since I was just trying to pattern for future reference) I spent the rest of the afternoon shooting off of a bipod and a rear bag.

I was surprised to see that the bullets were impacting very inconsistently. I saw 5 round groups anywhere from 1" to 2.5". This happened with all the ammo, regardless of whether I let the barrel cool between shots or not. I know that I was getting into very steady positions and giving a nice, clean break on the trigger. I have experience test firing custom rifles and holding into 1/2" or smaller groups so I am pretty confident that the large part of the problem is not my trigger technique or position. I watched a number of rounds with clean breaks on center stray from Point of Aim.

I also noticed that there was a lot of powder flash on the neck of the case but no bulging. After some rounds fired, the force to unlock the bolt was pretty tough. I am wondering if it could be headspace but that's probably not likely.

My biggest concern right now is something in the scope mounting set up. Following that, I think it's possible that the torque on the action screws or optic base needs to be checked but I don't have a torque wrench yet. I don't have experience with the optics brand or ring and I know I took a gamble on it, but I'd be really surprised if the behavior it's exhibiting was a cause of the optic (all shots remained pretty close to zero but exhibited odd dispersion around it).

I noticed that the gun came test fired and the brass ring on the bolt face was uneven, meaning bolt face contact with the back of the case is not 100% square, but I'd be really surprised if that has something to do with it.

I want to get this figured out but if I need any tools (i.e. torque wrench) I'll probably have to buy tools and I don't have a huge budget to do that so I want to chase down the more likely issues first.

Any ideas from the collective knowledge here on what to start chasing down?

[taylorce1]

IMO it's going to boil down to about four things the rifle, optics & mounts, shooting technique off bipod, or ammunition. A Wheeler FAT Wrench isn't very expensive and will allow you to check torques.Make sure everything is properly torqued

Clean the rifle then head back to the range, try shooting off sandbags for a front rest instead of the bipod. See if your groups improve or stay the same, if that doesn't work move to the ammunition. Buy a couple more different brands to try, it might be as simple as your rifle didn't like any of the current ammo. If that doesn't work take a scope that you know is good from one of your other rifles and mount it on the Creedmoor.

If none of the above works call customer service at Savage and have them send a call tag. Believe it or not, but sometimes Savage rifles won't shoot out of the box. I'm sure if there is an actual problem wit the rifle Savage will take care of you.

[Don Fischer]

For me with something like that, I start with the bedding. That usually fix's the problem. You don't really need a torque wrench. Shoot, I went close to 50 yrs without one and it was never a problem. Have one off Amazon now and pretty neet to say what the torque is on every thing but not convinced it's really necessary.

[Rimfire5]

I have two Savage bolt actions in 6.5 Creedmoor.
One is a Model 10T-SR (made specially for Cabela's) and the other is a Model 12 Long Range Precision model. Both shoot well under 1/2 MOA consistently.

The Model 12 with an HS Precision stock came with a very tight chamber and I found that it flattened primers with factory and just about any hand load, even loads at the minimum loads. If you are flattening primers with factory ammo, that might be part of the problem. Hornady told me that high pressure indications with their factory ammo usually indicates a tight chamber.
the model 12 shot great out of the box.
Savage fixed the tight chamber under warranty and now there is no primer flattening. It still shoots very accurately and is my most accurate rifle.

The model 10T-SR had no problems out of the box and shoots almost as accurately as the model 12.
The standard Accu-stock is a bit short for me and if I don't set up carefully, I find that my groups open up. Having a consistent set up shoulder position square to the barrel important because the POI will move right or left if you move the stock around on your shoulder. But having the same position behind the scope is also important because moving in and out on the scope moves the POI up or down respectively. Variations of more than 1/2 inch in POI are not unusual if the set up position varies shot to shot.

You didn't say whether the groups are stringing up and down or left or right or just spraying inconsistently. That makes it hard to determine if it is set up or a bad scope (yes it happens) or the rifle.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by Don Fischer

For me with something like that, I start with the bedding.

Don, normally I'd agree with you but the Savage Stealth uses. a chassis instead of a traditional stock. I'm not sure how you'd go about bedding one. The action pretty much sits atop an aluminum bedding block, I'm sure you could spot bed the front and rear of the receiver but not much else.

[Rimfire5]

One more suggestion, since you have noticed some indication that the brass is not seating properly against the bolt.

Take pictures of what you are seeing and of the brass, both the neck with the strange powder marks and the bases. Don't be afraid to take some close-ups of the conditions.
Use the Savage web site to report your suspected problem and include the pictures.
I did that with my flattened primers, documenting the loads used, and they immediately told me to send the rifle back to them.

I suspect that if you document the problem with the brass, they will do the same for your rifle.

[RC20]

It sounds like there are a couple of problems.

Chamber is tight and you should not have brass on the bolt face. That may be an off kilter chamber as well.

Check the action screw for tight even if no torque wrench. Savage is bad about coming form the factory without tight screws.

It sounds like it should go back to Savage just for those two.

I always keep a spare scope on hand to cross check if its a scope issue in th accuracy area.

[Mobuck]

retracted

[jmr40]

I've tried all of that ammo with mediocre accuracy. Buy some Hornady ammo loaded with any of the ELD-X or ELD-M bullets. For that matter the Hormady 129 gr American Whitetail budget ammo. Or put together some hand loads with them. My Ruger Predator shoots them much better.

Normally Berger bullets shoot very well, but I didn't find the load by Federal to be very good.

[ed308]

It's not the chassie. I've got the same one from MDT and it doesn't need to be bedded. I would check scope to make sure the rings are set to the correct specs. I would also try some of you reloads. I've never found any manufactured ammo to be more accurate than my reloads except for one AR I own. And I haven't bothered to reload for it much but do have some reloads that are very close. I would also see how it groups with the muzzle the muzzle device removed. I've have one muzzle device open my groups in the past. With all that said, I find 6.5 CM more difficult to reload compared to other calibers I reload. The caliber seems more finicky to reload. But its a new caliber for me.

[darkgael]

, try shooting off sandbags for a front rest instead of the bipod.

This ^^^^^ is good advice. Try this first.
Pete

[Picher]

I agree that the bipod could be part of the problem.

To check the squareness of the chambering, carefully "smoke" the rear of an unfired case without heating the primer, and close the action on it. If the chamber isn't parallel with the bolt, it should be obvious when you remove the smoked round.

[Dufus]

I sent a rifle back to Savage last year.

It took just a few days longer than 3 months to get it back.

They replaced a crappy barrel with a crappier barrel. I was not gonna wait another 3 months, so I did the repairs myself.

Also, do you think they would send a tracking number when they shipped it? Hell no. If I had not called in to check on it, I would not have known it was even shipped.

The shop must have tons of repairs going on. Wonder why?

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by Picher

To check the squareness of the chambering, carefully "smoke" the rear of an unfired case without heating the primer, and close the action on it. If the chamber isn't parallel with the bolt, it should be obvious when you remove the smoked round.

Why can't you "smoke" a once fired case, why the heck would you want to heat up a live one?

[MagnumWill]

...yeah, I agree. That sounds super dangerous. Re-size a spent case, put it in the action and apply smoke that way...

[Picher]

When you "smoke" a case, you don't heat it to a dangerous level. You just deposit a bit of smoke on the case. You don't "cook" it!