Hand Primers? Issues??

folsoh · March 8, 2018, 09:56 AM

I have an RCBS universal hand priming tool. The one with the square tray. It works great for priming large primers and magnum primers.

It is a nightmare however for priming small primers. I know how to switch them out and have even had replacement parts sent to me but it is still impossible to prime small primers with this thing. Out of 100 I will have 20 or so that dont seat correctly or have a crease in the primer. I have these issues when trying to prime 5.56 and .300 blackout brass. I ream the snot out of the primer pockets and still have issues. I am using federal gold metal match small primers #205M. Its like the automatic shell holders dont hold the small shells perfectly centered to insert the primer. It a guessing match.

A friend of mine uses the regular RCBS hand primer that uses exact shell holders and he has no issues with small primers. I have thought of purchasing one of those and one shell holder for about $45.00 total and just leaving it set up for small primers and use the universal just for Large and Magnum primers.

Then I saw a Frankford Arsenal Platinum Series Perfect Seat Hand Priming Tool that comes with all the shell holders in a kit for $59.00 but I dont know anyone who uses one.

I was just thinking that having a tool that uses a shell holder would help my small cartridge alignment and seat my small primers. I dont want to buy all new shell holders though, but I could buy one for just 5.56 and .300 blackout.

What is everyone else using????? Any thoughts??

USSR · March 8, 2018, 10:07 AM

I have the old style RCBS hand primer. I bought one of the new style ones like you have, but have yet to use it. When you say some of the small primers "don't seat correctly", exactly what do you mean? The crease is not a problem, just looks bad.

Don

folsoh · March 8, 2018, 10:11 AM

They wont go all the way in the pocket or it crushes them partially. If you press to hard the shell just flies off the tool with the primer not seated correctly and you cant try and reseat it. You have just wasted a primer

USSR · March 8, 2018, 10:57 AM

I'd contact RCBS about sending it in to them. RCBS has the best customer support in the industry. I've bought used RCBS stuff that was missing parts, and they sent me the parts free of charge.

Don

**44 AMP** · March 8, 2018, 11:36 AM

I have an older RCBS hand primer, the one with the round tray. It uses the same RCBS shellholders as my RCBS press.

Operation has been flawless for decades. Changing from large to small primers is a pain in the butt, and I eventually bought a second one, and now leave one set up for large primers and one for small, so the only change I need make is to use the correct shellholder.

If you've got a problem with your tool, (or you're causing a problem with your tool) call RCBS. They have one of the best reputations in the business, I'm sure they'll make things right.

onespeedbiker · March 8, 2018, 12:42 PM

RCBS has a it's ram primer that utilizes the bullet press, using "exact shell holders" and works very well with both large and small primers. http://rcbs.com/Products/Priming/Too...ming-Unit.aspx

BBarn · March 8, 2018, 02:52 PM

You asked about the Frankford Arsenal Hand Priming tool. I purchased one several months back after reading numerous positive reviews. I am very disappointed in the tool. For me, it's two positive features don't nearly outweigh it's negatives.

On the plus side, the tool is made primarily of metal, with the tray and cover being the only plastic parts. However, some of the metal parts don't appear to be of high quality or especially rugged or wear resistant. The tool comes with several shell holders, covering the majority of popular rifle and pistol rounds. The tool also seems to be compatible with Lee Auto-Prime shell holders.

On the negative side, the tool is a behemoth. It's nearly as big as a reloading hand press, and perhaps almost as heavy as well. But worst of all, the tool is an ergonomic nightmare for someone with slightly smaller than average hands. It takes a really hard squeeze of the hand to seat any primer. My hand begins to hurt after priming just a few cases. If I have more than 20 cases to prime, I won't use it. In fact I haven't used it in a few months, and may never use it again.

While the Lee hand primers have their faults, I would much rather use one of those than the Frankford. Simple thumb pressure is all that's required to prime with the Lee, and it makes you feel like Superman compared to priming with the Frankford.

If you don't mind spending the coin, two of the standard RCBS tools (one set up for small, and one set up for large) as suggested is probably a good way to go. Otherwise I'd probably consider the basic Lee tool. I'm currently using two of the earlier XL tools (one set up for each primer size). I don't think Lee makes the Auto-Prime XL anymore and I don't know how well the New Auto-Prime compares. In my experience the Lee priming tools don't last all that long. Some of the many plastic parts seem to break or wear out after 3000 rounds or so. But given the low cost, buying a replacement isn't too painful.

I prefer a portable priming hand priming tool, but I understand that the RCBS bench mounted priming tool is quite good as well. It's more money, but I understand it's very reliable and durable. However, I can't speak from personal experience because I have never used or owned one.

Hawg · March 8, 2018, 02:59 PM

I have the old RCBS hand primer and it works very well. I use RCBS and Lee shell holders. Priming on the press is a PITA and you get a better feel for seating primers with the hand tool.

hounddawg · March 8, 2018, 08:36 PM

I have used both the Lee with the square tray and the RCBS with the round tray. All things considered I prefer the RCBS for overall best but the Lee edges it out on feel

Bayou · March 8, 2018, 08:49 PM

What is everyone else using????? Any thoughts??

My fave hand primer is the old RCBS Posi-Prime. Primers are manually inserted into the tool, and it has a clean, smooth insertion. It uses standard shell holders. The Posi-Prime has been out of production for several decades but they come up regularly on Flea-Bay.

chris in va · March 8, 2018, 10:15 PM

I use a Lee Hand Press with the Ram Prime, works very well. It has good leverage and lets you get a feel for how the primer is seating.

F. Guffey · March 9, 2018, 11:27 AM

I have the Lee Auto Prime with enough parts to build 4 more. I have two RCBS auto primers with the round tray with parts. I have the RCBS on the bench and the one that mounts in the press.

And then one day? RCBS changed the design of their shell holders, Before that I had three different RCBS designed shell holders. They offered to swap out all of my shell holders; I explained to them it would be easier for me to modify my shell holder and cheaper on them + a few of my shell holders are not made to spec (if I did not make the swap).

The only problem I have had with auto primers is the stacking of primers by nervous reloaders. one day I started out to bust a primer in one of my primers, after 2 hours I gave up and started doing things that are not normally experience when priming a case. I busted a primer in one of my RCBS Auto Primers.

F. Guffey

Marco Califo · March 9, 2018, 12:38 PM

I believe OP is asking about the RCBS Universal Hand Primer tool that does not use shellholders, and uses a Square Primer Tray. OP says it is the Universal in his OP. These do not use shellholders, comments about the shellholder based tools are not relevant to this thread. I have one of these but have not used it yet. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/31...d-priming-tool
Looking closely at the picture in the link, it also uses the same or similar toggle mechanism.

I bought the Universal to replace and RCBS Hand Priming Tool (Round Tray), which worked well for me years, until I was getting jamming and locking on the toggle mechanism, and needed to spin every cartridge 180 degrees, and seat again, to get an even seating, which then left half-moon indentations when I fully seated primers. I have not tried the Universal Hand Primer yet, but am obviously interested to hear how this plays out.

I really like using hand primer tools, as I reload in batches, rather than on a progress press, and like to have primed cases on hand ready for powder and bullets, which I can add at home or at the range using a Lee Handpress.

mkl · March 9, 2018, 01:30 PM

I've tried several dedicated primer seating tools over the last 30 years or so and have not been impressed with any except one. Out of production now, but can find on ebay every now and then. Here's an example, but seems to be overpriced in my opinion:

https://www.ebay.com/p/RCBS-Standard...unt/3012063085

You will have to use a shell holder that fits the case you are priming but that will eliminate your primer pocket alignment problem. The shell holder that fits your press should also fit the RCBS priming tool.

I use this tool when developing loads at the range and don't have access to my home bench. At home, I use the RCBS Jr. press which lacking compound linkage gives an excellent feel to when the primer is fully seated. Those too can be found occasionally on ebay but just make sure it comes with the priming arm and both size (small & large) cups.

Marco Califo · March 9, 2018, 01:45 PM

^^^
Only $74 new at Midway, with primer feed tubes.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/45...h-priming-tool

T. O'Heir · March 9, 2018, 01:48 PM

"...5.56 and .300 Blackout brass..." What brand? Sounds more like you need to do a bit more case prep though.
You have any issues priming on your press?

F. Guffey · March 9, 2018, 01:53 PM

Quote:

https://www.ebay.com/p/RCBS-Standard...unt/3012063085

I have two of those, one is for Herter shell holders and then there is the lOCHMILLER (spelling?) and then there is the RCBS; well that is three.

F. Guffey

RC20 · March 9, 2018, 01:54 PM

I have the RCBS Universal in both.

Was not worth changing back and forth.

No problems at all with small primers.

scatterbrain · March 9, 2018, 03:08 PM

The RCBS Universal Primer is the greatest thing since sliced bread. That being said, your problem is the crimp in the brass, I know you removed it, but you didn't get all of it. This is a lesson learned. The first time I used it, brass would come out and fly away, I went back to using my press until I finished the day. The crimp had been removed by a Lyman Prep tool reamer, it wasn't all gone! I ran some cases through a RCBS swedger and presto, the Universal worked prefect. I particularly like the case holders as I can tilt the primer tool to prevent a no feed issue. I liked it so well I now have two.

RC20 · March 9, 2018, 08:06 PM

Sounds like solid data.

I ran into that with a Forster sizing die. Got some HXP mixed in the bunch, crimps were gone but not entirely. Broke a spindle.

Cramped brass is a pain,

**Mike Irwin** · March 10, 2018, 07:16 AM

I've been using the same Lee Auto Prime that I bought new around 1982.

I figure by now I'm closing in on 30,000 cases primed with it. Mostly handgun, but in years past a lot of rifle, too.

The secret to the Lee Auto Prime is to keep the linkage lubricate. If you don't, priming force goes WAY up, and you'll end up breaking it.

243winxb · March 10, 2018, 09:26 AM

Quote:

The explosion blew his right thumb off,

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/thr...ation.3944993/

If 1 primer goes kaboom, the rest may also.

I seat primers 1 at a time with RCBS Ram Prime.

Marco B · March 10, 2018, 10:28 AM

Hello Folso

The cases which are jumping out and have the primer half way seated are not wasted

I'm using this tool now for about one year and recently found out, you can pop the case in from the top also. The jaws are tapered at the top, so with a little practice you can reinsert the half primed case and seat the primer completely.

I had this issue with some tight primer pocket S&B 9 mm brass

Now I made it a habit to insert the case from the top and rattle it a little to make sure the jaws grabbing it well and it is aligned.

Hope this helps

Salmoneye · March 10, 2018, 11:04 AM

Another vote for the Lee Hand Press with RCBS Ram Prime...

Been doing it that way since the late 80's...

ed308 · March 10, 2018, 11:37 AM

I bought a RCBS Universal Primer around 2 years ago and that's not been my experience. Works for large and small primers. I've never crushed a primer in it. Must be defective. I'd send it back to RCBS and ask for a new one. I primed 50 cases on Starline SR Creedmoor brass on mine last night. Worked as designed. But sounds like crimped primer pockets is the problem.

March 8, 2018, 09:56 AM	#1
folsoh Member Join Date: December 27, 2009 Posts: 64	Hand Primers? Issues?? I have an RCBS universal hand priming tool. The one with the square tray. It works great for priming large primers and magnum primers. It is a nightmare however for priming small primers. I know how to switch them out and have even had replacement parts sent to me but it is still impossible to prime small primers with this thing. Out of 100 I will have 20 or so that dont seat correctly or have a crease in the primer. I have these issues when trying to prime 5.56 and .300 blackout brass. I ream the snot out of the primer pockets and still have issues. I am using federal gold metal match small primers #205M. Its like the automatic shell holders dont hold the small shells perfectly centered to insert the primer. It a guessing match. A friend of mine uses the regular RCBS hand primer that uses exact shell holders and he has no issues with small primers. I have thought of purchasing one of those and one shell holder for about $45.00 total and just leaving it set up for small primers and use the universal just for Large and Magnum primers. Then I saw a Frankford Arsenal Platinum Series Perfect Seat Hand Priming Tool that comes with all the shell holders in a kit for $59.00 but I dont know anyone who uses one. I was just thinking that having a tool that uses a shell holder would help my small cartridge alignment and seat my small primers. I dont want to buy all new shell holders though, but I could buy one for just 5.56 and .300 blackout. What is everyone else using????? Any thoughts??

March 8, 2018, 10:57 AM	#4
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	I'd contact RCBS about sending it in to them. RCBS has the best customer support in the industry. I've bought used RCBS stuff that was missing parts, and they sent me the parts free of charge. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

March 8, 2018, 11:36 AM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,846	I have an older RCBS hand primer, the one with the round tray. It uses the same RCBS shellholders as my RCBS press. Operation has been flawless for decades. Changing from large to small primers is a pain in the butt, and I eventually bought a second one, and now leave one set up for large primers and one for small, so the only change I need make is to use the correct shellholder. If you've got a problem with your tool, (or you're causing a problem with your tool) call RCBS. They have one of the best reputations in the business, I'm sure they'll make things right. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

March 8, 2018, 08:36 PM	#9
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	I have used both the Lee with the square tray and the RCBS with the round tray. All things considered I prefer the RCBS for overall best but the Lee edges it out on feel __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

March 8, 2018, 08:49 PM	#10
Bayou Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2016 Location: SE Louisiana Posts: 300	What is everyone else using????? Any thoughts?? My fave hand primer is the old RCBS Posi-Prime. Primers are manually inserted into the tool, and it has a clean, smooth insertion. It uses standard shell holders. The Posi-Prime has been out of production for several decades but they come up regularly on Flea-Bay. __________________ Bayou NRA Life Member "Keep Calm and Reload"

March 8, 2018, 10:07 AM	#2
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	I have the old style RCBS hand primer. I bought one of the new style ones like you have, but have yet to use it. When you say some of the small primers "don't seat correctly", exactly what do you mean? The crease is not a problem, just looks bad. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

March 8, 2018, 10:11 AM	#3
folsoh Member Join Date: December 27, 2009 Posts: 64	They wont go all the way in the pocket or it crushes them partially. If you press to hard the shell just flies off the tool with the primer not seated correctly and you cant try and reseat it. You have just wasted a primer

March 8, 2018, 12:42 PM	#6
onespeedbiker Member Join Date: January 5, 2018 Posts: 16	RCBS has a it's ram primer that utilizes the bullet press, using "exact shell holders" and works very well with both large and small primers. http://rcbs.com/Products/Priming/Too...ming-Unit.aspx

March 8, 2018, 02:52 PM	#7
BBarn Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2015 Posts: 887	You asked about the Frankford Arsenal Hand Priming tool. I purchased one several months back after reading numerous positive reviews. I am very disappointed in the tool. For me, it's two positive features don't nearly outweigh it's negatives. On the plus side, the tool is made primarily of metal, with the tray and cover being the only plastic parts. However, some of the metal parts don't appear to be of high quality or especially rugged or wear resistant. The tool comes with several shell holders, covering the majority of popular rifle and pistol rounds. The tool also seems to be compatible with Lee Auto-Prime shell holders. On the negative side, the tool is a behemoth. It's nearly as big as a reloading hand press, and perhaps almost as heavy as well. But worst of all, the tool is an ergonomic nightmare for someone with slightly smaller than average hands. It takes a really hard squeeze of the hand to seat any primer. My hand begins to hurt after priming just a few cases. If I have more than 20 cases to prime, I won't use it. In fact I haven't used it in a few months, and may never use it again. While the Lee hand primers have their faults, I would much rather use one of those than the Frankford. Simple thumb pressure is all that's required to prime with the Lee, and it makes you feel like Superman compared to priming with the Frankford. If you don't mind spending the coin, two of the standard RCBS tools (one set up for small, and one set up for large) as suggested is probably a good way to go. Otherwise I'd probably consider the basic Lee tool. I'm currently using two of the earlier XL tools (one set up for each primer size). I don't think Lee makes the Auto-Prime XL anymore and I don't know how well the New Auto-Prime compares. In my experience the Lee priming tools don't last all that long. Some of the many plastic parts seem to break or wear out after 3000 rounds or so. But given the low cost, buying a replacement isn't too painful. I prefer a portable priming hand priming tool, but I understand that the RCBS bench mounted priming tool is quite good as well. It's more money, but I understand it's very reliable and durable. However, I can't speak from personal experience because I have never used or owned one.

March 8, 2018, 02:59 PM	#8
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I have the old RCBS hand primer and it works very well. I use RCBS and Lee shell holders. Priming on the press is a PITA and you get a better feel for seating primers with the hand tool.

March 8, 2018, 10:15 PM	#11
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I use a Lee Hand Press with the Ram Prime, works very well. It has good leverage and lets you get a feel for how the primer is seating.

March 9, 2018, 11:27 AM	#12
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I have the Lee Auto Prime with enough parts to build 4 more. I have two RCBS auto primers with the round tray with parts. I have the RCBS on the bench and the one that mounts in the press. And then one day? RCBS changed the design of their shell holders, Before that I had three different RCBS designed shell holders. They offered to swap out all of my shell holders; I explained to them it would be easier for me to modify my shell holder and cheaper on them + a few of my shell holders are not made to spec (if I did not make the swap). The only problem I have had with auto primers is the stacking of primers by nervous reloaders. one day I started out to bust a primer in one of my primers, after 2 hours I gave up and started doing things that are not normally experience when priming a case. I busted a primer in one of my RCBS Auto Primers. F. Guffey

March 9, 2018, 12:38 PM	#13
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	RCBS Universal Hand Primer tool I believe OP is asking about the RCBS Universal Hand Primer tool that does not use shellholders, and uses a Square Primer Tray. OP says it is the Universal in his OP. These do not use shellholders, comments about the shellholder based tools are not relevant to this thread. I have one of these but have not used it yet. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/31...d-priming-tool Looking closely at the picture in the link, it also uses the same or similar toggle mechanism. I bought the Universal to replace and RCBS Hand Priming Tool (Round Tray), which worked well for me years, until I was getting jamming and locking on the toggle mechanism, and needed to spin every cartridge 180 degrees, and seat again, to get an even seating, which then left half-moon indentations when I fully seated primers. I have not tried the Universal Hand Primer yet, but am obviously interested to hear how this plays out. I really like using hand primer tools, as I reload in batches, rather than on a progress press, and like to have primed cases on hand ready for powder and bullets, which I can add at home or at the range using a Lee Handpress. __________________ ............ Last edited by Marco Califo; March 9, 2018 at 12:39 PM. Reason: Confirmed OP is asking about Universal tool

March 9, 2018, 01:30 PM	#14
mkl Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Location: DFW area, Texas Posts: 494	I've tried several dedicated primer seating tools over the last 30 years or so and have not been impressed with any except one. Out of production now, but can find on ebay every now and then. Here's an example, but seems to be overpriced in my opinion: https://www.ebay.com/p/RCBS-Standard...unt/3012063085 You will have to use a shell holder that fits the case you are priming but that will eliminate your primer pocket alignment problem. The shell holder that fits your press should also fit the RCBS priming tool. I use this tool when developing loads at the range and don't have access to my home bench. At home, I use the RCBS Jr. press which lacking compound linkage gives an excellent feel to when the primer is fully seated. Those too can be found occasionally on ebay but just make sure it comes with the priming arm and both size (small & large) cups. Last edited by mkl; March 9, 2018 at 02:26 PM. Reason: Added The shell holder that fits your press should also fit the RCBS priming tool.""

March 9, 2018, 01:45 PM	#15
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	Only $74 new at Midway ^^^ Only $74 new at Midway, with primer feed tubes. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/45...h-priming-tool __________________ ............

March 9, 2018, 01:48 PM	#16
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...5.56 and .300 Blackout brass..." What brand? Sounds more like you need to do a bit more case prep though. You have any issues priming on your press? __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

March 9, 2018, 01:54 PM	#18
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I have the RCBS Universal in both. Was not worth changing back and forth. No problems at all with small primers. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

March 9, 2018, 03:08 PM	#19
scatterbrain Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2015 Posts: 160	The RCBS Universal Primer is the greatest thing since sliced bread. That being said, your problem is the crimp in the brass, I know you removed it, but you didn't get all of it. This is a lesson learned. The first time I used it, brass would come out and fly away, I went back to using my press until I finished the day. The crimp had been removed by a Lyman Prep tool reamer, it wasn't all gone! I ran some cases through a RCBS swedger and presto, the Universal worked prefect. I particularly like the case holders as I can tilt the primer tool to prevent a no feed issue. I liked it so well I now have two.

March 9, 2018, 08:06 PM	#20
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Sounds like solid data. I ran into that with a Forster sizing die. Got some HXP mixed in the bunch, crimps were gone but not entirely. Broke a spindle. Cramped brass is a pain, __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

March 10, 2018, 07:16 AM	#21
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	I've been using the same Lee Auto Prime that I bought new around 1982. I figure by now I'm closing in on 30,000 cases primed with it. Mostly handgun, but in years past a lot of rifle, too. The secret to the Lee Auto Prime is to keep the linkage lubricate. If you don't, priming force goes WAY up, and you'll end up breaking it. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 10, 2018, 10:28 AM	#23
Marco B Member Join Date: January 17, 2017 Location: Kentucky Posts: 23	Hello Folso The cases which are jumping out and have the primer half way seated are not wasted I'm using this tool now for about one year and recently found out, you can pop the case in from the top also. The jaws are tapered at the top, so with a little practice you can reinsert the half primed case and seat the primer completely. I had this issue with some tight primer pocket S&B 9 mm brass Now I made it a habit to insert the case from the top and rattle it a little to make sure the jaws grabbing it well and it is aligned. Hope this helps

March 10, 2018, 11:04 AM	#24
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	Another vote for the Lee Hand Press with RCBS Ram Prime... Been doing it that way since the late 80's...

March 10, 2018, 11:37 AM	#25
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	I bought a RCBS Universal Primer around 2 years ago and that's not been my experience. Works for large and small primers. I've never crushed a primer in it. Must be defective. I'd send it back to RCBS and ask for a new one. I primed 50 cases on Starline SR Creedmoor brass on mine last night. Worked as designed. But sounds like crimped primer pockets is the problem. Last edited by ed308; March 10, 2018 at 11:43 AM.