6.5 Creedmoor.......Love affair???

[Whistlebritches]

Can someone explain to me the newest darling on the range?

I go into a shop and it's the first thing they want to show me???

I've looked at it's capabilities.........anything it can do hunting my 25-06 does better.

Anything it can do on the range my 308 can do better.

So tell me why this round even made it beyond the wildcat stage........and why so many fawn over it.

I've just never been impressed by any 6.5mm.

Any and all responses are appreciated.

[TXAZ]

Clearly they are both competitive. The ballistics are a little better on the Creedmoor, and the rounds are a bit heavier and I believe with a better BC.

And I can find a lot more rifles that shoot 6.5 than 25-.06.

[emcon5]

Anything it can do on the range my 308 can do better.

Only if you stick to 50 yards. May want to run some wind drift numbers beyond that.

[CalmerThanYou]

6.5 CM has roughly 25% better results in drop and drift, with less recoil. If you re going out 700 yrds+ the difference is significant.
If not you are GTG. I think this topic has been covered in depth, here and elsewhere.

[std7mag]

Don't ask me.
I'm a hater.

[doofus47]

25-06 is a 50 year old solution to the same problem.

No one wants to date a 50 year old prom queen.

The 6.5 can throw heavier bullets and do it more accurately when shooting farther. It will also not beat you up as much doing it. 6.5C probably can't splat a prairie dog like a 25-06, though.

[eastbank]

as I don,t shoot a ar style semi auto and I own 260-7mm08-308 rifles, I see no reason for me to buy a 6.5cm. as a matter of fact I have a 6.5x55 in the cz 550 with a 1-8 twist that smokes the cm.

[Scorch]

13 years ago, we had this same conversation on this forum about the 6.5-284. My answer still hasn't changed: it's the current fad. Somebody somewhere won something with it, and everybody wants to win so they want to change to what the winners are shooting. Yes, the ballistics are good, but no better than the 260 Remington, which is not quite as good as the 6.5X55 Swedish, which is not quite as good as the 6.5X57, which is not quite as good as the 256 Newton, which is not quite as good as the 6.5-284, which is not quite as good as the 6.5-06 (notice that some of these cartridges go back 100 years or more). And the list goes on. Every 10 years or so they trot out the next wannabe champ and everybody cheers. Somewhere you have to understand that it is a cartridge for competitive shooters who want the best ballistics for the least amount of recoil. It may or may not mean anything to a hunter or casual shooter. To me it means nothing. 6.5mm bullets are near the bottom end of killing ability and so I don't shoot them, but it would make a good whitetail or antelope rifle.

[stagpanther]

I'm running out of popcorn and beer--and the horse is down to nanoparticals in my rug.

[Capt Rick Hiott]

,,,,,,that's funny!

[Charlie98]

It's an accurate cartridge chambered in all the new rifles... I even saw a Browning 78 chambered in it! It's easy to shoot, everyone seems to have one, so there is lots of practical data for it, and unless you forget which end the pointy thing comes out of... it's pretty hard to not shoot well. Now, if you are trying to kill something bigger or heavier than a piece of paper... then all bets are off.

[TXAZ]

Originally Posted by CalmerThanYou

6.5 CM has roughly 25% better results in drop and drift, with less recoil. If you re going out 700 yrds+ the difference is significant.
If not you are GTG. I think this topic has been covered in depth, here and elsewhere.

My 6.5 CM is solid out to 1,000 yards with 147gr match rounds. (Beyond that It’s .50 Cal / 750gr excitement.)

[Whistlebritches]

Ok first off I personally don't shoot beyond 400 yards at anything.I hunt..........that being said I suppose if you shoot long distance at paper the 6.5 CM has a place.I looked at the ballistics of the 6.5 using a hornady 147 gr eld-X,or some crap like that.Again as a hunter I see no advantage at all over either of my favorites using the 85 gr(varminting)or 117 gr(deer and pigs)in the 25-06 and the 165 or 168 in the 308.As a matter of fact the 6.5 CM looks like a somewhat disadvantaged hunting round compared to many that came before it...........and most probably those old standbys will still be on the shelf when the,what caliber was that,is long gone and forgotten.

Not trying to ruffle any feathers........just my .02 on the current 6.5 trend.

[jmr40]

The 25-06 can't come close to 6.5 Creedmoor beyond the muzzle. Look at the down range numbers. The better 243 loads match or beat 25-06 beyond 200 yards.

The 6.5 Creedmoor's recoil is between 243 and 308, but much closer to 243.

Most hunting bullets expand reliably between 2800-1800 fps. Any faster and they often over expand, any slower and they don't expand at all. The 6.5 Creed starts 140-147 gr bullets between 2700 fps to 2800 fps and doesn't drop below 1800 fps out to 700 yards.

That is enough bullet for elk, and lots of hunters are reporting 500-600 shot elk kills with the 6.5.

As a target round the best 308 loads become subsonic at about 1200 yards. The Creedmoor is not a 1000 yard cartridge, it remains supersonic to 2000 yards. The 300 WM only beats it by about 200 yards. It is also proving to be more accurate than 308, much more accurate than 25-06.

As a hunting cartridge out to 500 yards or so it will do anything a 308 will do. But with about 25% less recoil, which is enough reason to buy one for a lot of people. Beyond 500 the 6.5 is clearly the better choice.

The reason it caught on is that Hornady flooded the market with match grade target and hunting ammo capable of 1/2 MOA and sold it at very reasonable prices. Rifle manufacturers offered very accurate 1/2 MOA rifles at affordable prices. There are several other options that are just as good. But require handloads only and custom rifles.

[Txhillbilly]

Originally Posted by Whistlebritches

Ok first off I personally don't shoot beyond 400 yards at anything.I hunt..........that being said I suppose if you shoot long distance at paper the 6.5 CM has a place.I looked at the ballistics of the 6.5 using a hornady 147 gr eld-X,or some crap like that.Again as a hunter I see no advantage at all over either of my favorites using the 85 gr(varminting)or 117 gr(deer and pigs)in the 25-06 and the 165 or 168 in the 308.As a matter of fact the 6.5 CM looks like a somewhat disadvantaged hunting round compared to many that came before it...........and most probably those old standbys will still be on the shelf when the,what caliber was that,is long gone and forgotten.

Not trying to ruffle any feathers........just my .02 on the current 6.5 trend.

Have you been sleeping under a rock for the last 10 years? That's how long the 6.5 Creedmoor has been around,its nothing new on the market.

I just don't get how guy's that call themselves Shooter's / Hunter's / Firearm enthusiast can hate a cartridge that has done more for the shooting sports in the last 10 years than any other cartridge.
Everyone knows that Remington has always screwed the pooch on developing and marketing any cartridge that they develop. The 7mm Express/280 Remington,and the 260 Remington are fine examples of that. If it wasn't for the Long Range crowd,the 260 wouldn't exist anymore. Hunter's saved the 280,and it has a great following.

Whistlebritches, I love the 25-06,and my heavy barreled 25-06 has taken it's fair share of game over the years,but my 6.5-06 does everything that the 25 -06 does way better,and I shoot up to 160 gr Sierra Pro Hunter bullets out of it.

The 6.5 Creedmoor solved the problems that the 260 Remington has with shooting the 140 gr and heavier match bullets. You can seat them out to the lands,and the cartridge will still fit inside the rifles magazine.

Hornady deserves an award for the marketing of the 6.5 Creedmoor,they did it better than anyone else in firearms history,and it has paid off very big for them and the gun manufacturer's that produce rifles chambered for it.

Go to almost any gun store and see how many types of 260 Remington they stock on the shelf,then look at how many different types & brands of 6.5 Creedmoor ammo they have.

Don't get me wrong,I like the 260 Remington,and have a DPMS LR-260H that I hunt pigs with. I have a bunch of 6.5mm chamberings,and like them all.

I also shoot several 223's,7mm-08,308,30-06,300 WM. I've built four 6.5 Creedmoor's,so yeah,I like them,but I also like just about everything else too.

I get it,You look on almost any gun forum and see a crap load of Creedmoor threads with guy's bragging about this "magical" cartridge they have found. It's not magic,there are plenty of other cartridges that perform with the same or better ballistics.
But,there aren't many cartridges on the market where John Doe can buy a cheap entry level rifle,and shoot factory ammo,and shoot moa or better groups.

I spent a long time learning how to shoot correctly when I was young,and I build almost all of my rifles along with hand loading all of my ammo.

That's what it boils down to,guy's being jealous!

[Whistlebritches]

Originally Posted by jmr40

The 25-06 can't come close to 6.5 Creedmoor beyond the muzzle. Look at the down range numbers. The better 243 loads match or beat 25-06 beyond 200 yards.

The 6.5 Creedmoor's recoil is between 243 and 308, but much closer to 243.

Most hunting bullets expand reliably between 2800-1800 fps. Any faster and they often over expand, any slower and they don't expand at all. The 6.5 Creed starts 140-147 gr bullets between 2700 fps to 2800 fps and doesn't drop below 1800 fps out to 700 yards.

That is enough bullet for elk, and lots of hunters are reporting 500-600 shot elk kills with the 6.5.

As a target round the best 308 loads become subsonic at about 1200 yards. The Creedmoor is not a 1000 yard cartridge, it remains supersonic to 2000 yards. The 300 WM only beats it by about 200 yards. It is also proving to be more accurate than 308, much more accurate than 25-06.

As a hunting cartridge out to 500 yards or so it will do anything a 308 will do. But with about 25% less recoil, which is enough reason to buy one for a lot of people. Beyond 500 the 6.5 is clearly the better choice.

The reason it caught on is that Hornady flooded the market with match grade target and hunting ammo capable of 1/2 MOA and sold it at very reasonable prices. Rifle manufacturers offered very accurate 1/2 MOA rifles at affordable prices. There are several other options that are just as good. But require handloads only and custom rifles.

Umm no......the 243 isn't capable of pushing a 117-120 grain bullet.This range is where the 25-06 shines.

If you're that recoil sensitive maybe you should take up air guns.

"Most hunting bullets"...........LOL

Any 6.5 on elk requires the perfect quartering angle..........same with the 25-06.500-600 yards,irresponsible and unethical in my opinion.

How many people care about 1200 yards?Unless you propose shots on game out there as well.More accurate........in which guns?Standard sporter barrels?

I guess I'm not really recoil sensitive........especially at shots on game.A 308 has just enough recoil to remind you it's a centerfire rifle,nothing more.I suppose people shoot beyond 500 yards.The last time I intentionally fired a weapon at a target beyond 500 yards it was a 20mm minigun off the starboard rail of a SOC-R.........target destroyed,maybe a better discription is vaporized.

So blame it on Hornady.J/K.......I didn't know this.

[Whistlebritches]

Originally Posted by Txhillbilly

Have you been sleeping under a rock for the last 10 years? That's how long the 6.5 Creedmoor has been around,its nothing new on the market.

I just don't get how guy's that call themselves Shooter's / Hunter's / Firearm enthusiast can hate a cartridge that has done more for the shooting sports in the last 10 years than any other cartridge.
Everyone knows that Remington has always screwed the pooch on developing and marketing any cartridge that they develop. The 7mm Express/280 Remington,and the 260 Remington are fine examples of that. If it wasn't for the Long Range crowd,the 260 wouldn't exist anymore. Hunter's saved the 280,and it has a great following.

Whistlebritches, I love the 25-06,and my heavy barreled 25-06 has taken it's fair share of game over the years,but my 6.5-06 does everything that the 25 -06 does way better,and I shoot up to 160 gr Sierra Pro Hunter bullets out of it.

The 6.5 Creedmoor solved the problems that the 260 Remington has with shooting the 140 gr and heavier match bullets. You can seat them out to the lands,and the cartridge will still fit inside the rifles magazine.

Hornady deserves an award for the marketing of the 6.5 Creedmoor,they did it better than anyone else in firearms history,and it has paid off very big for them and the gun manufacturer's that produce rifles chambered for it.

Go to almost any gun store and see how many types of 260 Remington they stock on the shelf,then look at how many different types & brands of 6.5 Creedmoor ammo they have.

Don't get me wrong,I like the 260 Remington,and have a DPMS LR-260H that I hunt pigs with. I have a bunch of 6.5mm chamberings,and like them all.

I also shoot several 223's,7mm-08,308,30-06,300 WM. I've built four 6.5 Creedmoor's,so yeah,I like them,but I also like just about everything else too.

I get it,You look on almost any gun forum and see a crap load of Creedmoor threads with guy's bragging about this "magical" cartridge they have found. It's not magic,there are plenty of other cartridges that perform with the same or better ballistics.
But,there aren't many cartridges on the market where John Doe can buy a cheap entry level rifle,and shoot factory ammo,and shoot moa or better groups.

I spent a long time learning how to shoot correctly when I was young,and I build almost all of my rifles along with hand loading all of my ammo.

That's what it boils down to,guy's being jealous!

I guess I've been under a rock.LOL

I'm just an old school military guy that's been using what works for close to 50 years.

You know.......old dogs ..........new tricks

[Whistlebritches]

Like I said I never intended to ruffle feathers.I just didn't and really still don't get it.That being said I appreciate all the info.What I have really gathered from all this is......the 6.5 CM is more of a long range competition round for those that enjoy such activity.I have also learned many are passionate about this round.......as passionate as I am about the 25-06 and the 308.I've just been carrying my passion much longer.

Thanks to all for the input.

[stagpanther]

Whether it fills a need or not--at least it provides constant fodder for endless utility debates on firearms forums.

As someone who hand loads ammunition--I cannot ignore the outstanding efficiency of the cartridge's design, regardless of what it can or cannot be used for. Did I mention I like the 6mm creed even more?

[saiga21308]

Originally Posted by emcon5

Only if you stick to 50 yards. May want to run some wind drift numbers beyond that.

my 308 are only 30 cents a round verse 6.5 at 60 cents around half the price
whos got the last laugh to the bank

[emcon5]

Umm no......the 243 isn't capable of pushing a 117-120 grain bullet.This range is where the 25-06 shines.

Pretty sure he meant to type .264, and if that was the case, he would be absolutely correct.

6.5mm bore is a sweet spot, the Swedes figured that out in 1894. You can shoot varmint bullets as light at 85 grains well north of 3000 FPS, or very high B.C match bullets, that equal the big .30 magnums but are pleasant to shoot. The hunting bullets have about as high a sectional density as you can get, so they have great penetration. Good article on the subject here: http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm

I have been shooting 6.5 long before the 6.5CM existed, in a Swede and a 6.5-06 LR rig. I liked the concept of the .260 Rem when it came out, but it has some shortcomings with heavy bullets and OAL, which were solved by the 6.5CM.

You get 90% of the performance of the 6.5-06, in a short action, with longer barrel life and end up with a rifle capable of hunting anything in the lower 48 except big bears.

What's not to like?

[bamaranger]

You can't use phrases like that and not ruffle some feathers.

There are a whole world of serious rifle guys that crank out rounds at paper, that do not hunt. There are a whole lot of military and ex-military guys among them. They shoot (accurately) way past 400 yds (your stated hunt limit) and such things as less drop (for unknown distances) and less wind drift (always) matters. Referring to match/paper shooters interests as "crap" will not win you any fans here. Camp Perry is one of those places where that sort of crap is very popular. To use a phrase from Elmer Keith, "I'm for any sport that burns powder".

I too am mostly a hunter, but dabbled in regional match shooting F-T/R(.223/.308) just enough to know that there are some dang good shots at those matches. I also saw that the .308 scores at most any match I went to could not equal the scores being shot by those with wind slipping 6mm, 6.5 and 7mm F-class (open) rifles. In the wind ( and it doesn't take much ) the .308 was at a distinct disadvantage.

Regards air guns and recoil. Above rifleman may well shoot 100-125 or more rounds over the course of a match weekend. Every one of those trigger presses are hoped to be perfect. Less recoil is conducive to that no matter how much hair you have on your chest. There are also a whole lot of folks who hunt that have found that to cleanly kill a 150 lb whitetail, they don't need .30 caliber punch.

The 6.5CM fits in neatly above the .243, which is accepted as a good deer combo by many. Where the 6.5CM may come into its own as a hunting round is in the ultralight rifles like the Kimber Hunter. At 5.5 lbs naked, the Hunter and its like are very light, and the 6.5CM, with more punch than a .243, and more reach than it's bigger brothers (arguably), but less recoil, may be the ideal spot and stalk medium game rifle. I'd think it ideal for something like an antelope hunt, mule deer and the like, where you cover a lot of ground, and shots can be long (that's what they say anyhow, I'll likely never get the chance to find out).

I don't own a 6.5CM, or a Kimber Hunter, but I can see where the combo might be an ideal tool. I've not shot a whitetail past 225 yds, and for that, all my old standbys work fine, and there's likely not one that couldn't have been taken with a .243, and most could have fallen easily to a 30-30. I no longer shoot in the F-T/R matches, but in F-Class and the new PRS game, the 6.5CM may be the answer. It certainly seems popular afield on the firing line.

For a lot of reasons.

[Whistlebritches]

And on that note Gentleman I may just have to buy one and put it through the paces.That much love must come from somewhere.If I don't like it........appears it'd be an easy sale,as long as lefty's like them as well.

I've just tried so many over the years that just didn't make the cut for one reason or another........the 280,264 Winmag,7mm mag and a few others I've long forgotten.

I'll just have to add this to my summer budget.

Again thanks for the input.It is much appreciated.

[hooligan1]

I have a 6.5 Creedmoor, it's a custom rifle built on an M38 Turkish Mauser action.
I like the low recoil and ability to teach out if needed and mostly Handloading for it.
The 6.5 saum is a really fast 6.5 cartridge used mostly in PRS shooting competitions and hunters are using those to take game cleanly to distances way farther than I could ever dream of.
The new kid on the block is the 6.5 PRC, which is designed by Hornady as the Creedmoor was, and George Gardner. The idea behind the PRC is short action cartridge that has the high bc's of the 6.5 bullet. It's main feature is pushing 140 grn pills to 3150 which is the limit for PRC competitions, and I'm sure numerous game animals have been falling to this cartridge as well.

In the end I had this rifle barreled in the Creedmoor because it's plenty for coyotes, pigs, deer, antelope, with low powder consumption and low recoil, oh and it's superbly accurate and consistent....

[stagpanther]

My take on the PRC is that it incorporates the "slightly blown-out case to make a short action magnum" concept--sorta like the "revolutionary" 284 win did (and which never gained traction until reincarnated as the 6.5-284 norma). On the other hand, I don't underestimate Hornady's cartridge design prowess, so "looks great, you go first" is my take for the time being.