44 mag general purpose round?

[JERRYS.]

the Speer 200 gr. Gold Dot short bbl at 1,050 fps seems to be a good round on paper (and ballistic gel) for a general purpose 44 magnum. no, not for middle of the night home defense or grizzly bear battling.... but for the rural or semi-rural person who might have need to defend against a human attacker or black bear/mountain lion....

it gives another 200 fps more than a 44 special without seeming harsh to shoot.

what say you? anyone here have real world experience with this round? I've listened to all the hearsay I care to for now.

[Dragline45]

It would make a good personal defense round as well as a good round for small 4 legged critters, but its not a good round for black bear for several reasons. For a .44 mag that is a light round, my black bear load is a Buffalo Bore 180gr .357 magnum hard cast at 1450fps, you’re pushing 200gr at far less than that. That wouldnt matter as much if the bullet you are using was a hard cast, but being a HP makes it doubly not suitable for black bear. Keep the gold dots for the home or around town, but if you are going into the woods get a good 44 mag or even a 44 special hard cast before you use those gold dots.

[JERRYS.]

I understand, but these aren't for hunting black bear, just repelling them yet allowing you to have the same load for "in-town" errands. maybe the black bear I'm thinking (300 pounds...) aren't as big as yours...

[Dragline45]

If you are in a situation that you are shooting at a bear you’re intention should not be to repel it, but to stop it in its tracks by either killing it or injuring it enough to drop it. There are zero guarantees when you shoot a bear it will run away, and more likely the bear will keep charging, especially with some 44 mag HP powderpuffs. Black bear are alot tougher than you may think. Is it really that hard to drop a speed loader of proper loads when you venure into the woods?

Edit: like the poster below me said, its not so much the velocity in this cass but the bullet.

[black mamba]

I think the velocity is OK, but for a general purpose round I would prefer a 240 SWC. Slightly more recoil than the 200, but still very manageable.

[ThomasT]

the Speer 200 gr. Gold Dot short bbl at 1,050 fps seems to be a good round on paper (and ballistic gel) for a general purpose 44 magnum. no, not for middle of the night home defense or grizzly bear battling.... but for the rural or semi-rural person who might have need to defend against a human attacker or black bear/mountain lion....

The speer 200gr bullet would be fine for personal defense against an attacker but I would want a tougher bullet for the other uses. My pick would be a Hornady XTP hollow point or a soft nose in the same bullet weight. I have always thought the Gold Dot bullets were too soft and expanded too easily for anything but SD. But right or wrong a hollow point that expands sells a lot of bullets. Frankly I would prefer a hard cast SWC bullet over the gold dot at the same speed for your uses.

[JERRYS.]

10-4 guys. thanks.

BTW, when I said "repel" it wasn't as in get it off of me repel, it was as in to kill it but of course its not a hunting round so killing it isn't the concern, its stopping it from trying to attack you. that's what I meant.

the SWC and sjfn rounds I would worry about the over penetration concerns should I be in town for a little bit.

I guess I can just load for bear when in the woods and load for trogs when in town.

[stagpanther]

I've dabbled for years with "lightweight" 44 mag rounds--but I always end up in the 240 to 265 gr warm load territory when I want tight groups--revolver or lever gun.

[Dragline45]

Buffalo Bore makes a .44 special “Anti Personel” wad cutter hard cast load. This will cover all your bases.

[smee78]

I use that same round but in my 44spl. For the particular needs you listed this rounds should be fine even for the middle of the night defense against a 2 or 4 legged predator. I think rounds on target are more important than the ammo used.

[Dragline45]

I use that same round but in my 44spl. For the particular needs you listed this rounds should be fine even for the middle of the night defense against a 2 or 4 legged predator. I think rounds on target are more important than the ammo used.

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more. When you are talking about larger predators like bear, yes black bear too, bullet choice is very important. Low powered hollow points are never suitable for black bear, period.

[Dufus]

I wouldn't use a hollow point on any dangerous game. If they do expand, all that will do is limit penetration especially if you happen to hit a decent size bone.

Hard Cast is a bullet makers dream bullet.

Hard Cast is my nightmare. I never bought into the hard cast hoopla.

BUT, if you gotta shoot a bear that is nipping on your butt, I would rather have a hard cast bullet than a hollow point anything.

[Real Gun]

How big is your gun? If not one of the big irons you may have found one of the more reasonable shooting commercial loads in that Speer Short Barrel. You should not debate bullets and loads without establishing what it is that will shoot it all. A moderate load will better enable a controlled second shot.

[NWPilgrim]

I don't think the .44 needs to expand much, if at all, to be effective. Therefore a harder bullet that will penetrate is more important than a soft or HP bullet that expands. A RNFP or LSWC had cast bullet in 240 gr is standard for the caliber for a very good reason. I prefer it around 1100-1150fps for that purpose as the best balance between power and easy recoil management (speed). Take out the bear as a possible threat and the GD load would be fine. But with bear you want for sure penetration.

[Real Gun]

A RNFP or LSWC had cast bullet in 240 gr is standard for the caliber for a very good reason.

Loading 44 Magnum with lead bullets is only a footnote in reloading data. The real deal in powder and charge weight specifies jacketed bullets. I use lead and moderate loading for 44 Magnum also, but I wouldn't call it "standard for the caliber", like I might for the 44 Special.

[rclark]

All I shoot is lead in my .44 Mag .. and .44 Specials. You don't need jacketed for most purposes.... A 240g - 260g bullet is standard in my experience. I prefer the 240g SWC myself. The Keith bullet (solid SWC style) I understand works very well for hunting too. During my powder testing for the .44Mag, I was shooting SWCs up to 1300fps with no leading problems that I could tell (in my revolver(s) of course). I prefer 10g of Unique under 240g SWC at around 1100fps for my 'general purpose' .44 Mag load. Works for me. 8.5g of Unique duplicates the Skeeter load popular in the .44 Special and is a good load as well.

Real Gun, check out Lyman's reloading manual. Lots of lead bullet loads there for .44 Magnum and .44 Special. You'll also find them in many magazines and reloading articles, say by Taffin, Pearce, Keith, others....

For example : Taffin .44Mag

[zeke]

Have never used a 44 200 gn gdhp to shoot a bear or person, so no real life experience. However am very aware of the huge POI difference between the 200 gdhp and a 250 gn swc out of a 44 mag revolver.

If large animals were on agenda, and wanted to be able to switch loads for situation, would consider a mild loaded heavy swc, and a more powerful loaded swc. Or just keep to the milder loaded swc.

[T. O'Heir]

"...stopping it from trying to attack you..." That'd be nothing that goes bang for Yogi or Kitty. They don't know what a firearm is unless they've been shot at before. And even then neither knows a 200 grainer from a brick.
Anyway, a 200 at 1,050 fps is a cast bullet .44 Mag load, not a jacketed Gold Dot. It's below minimum for any jacketed bullet load. Granted Hodgdon's velocities are out of an 8.275" barrel, but making up your own data is exceedingly unsafe. What powder?

[zeke]

https://www.speer-ammo.com/en/ammuni...p-short-barrel

Indeed, a Speer factory produced 44 magnum 200 gn gdhp, specifically designed to expand at 44 special velocities.

[Real Gun]

Real Gun, check out Lyman's reloading manual. Lots of lead bullet loads there for .44 Magnum and .44 Special. You'll also find them in many magazines and reloading articles, say by Taffin, Pearce, Keith, others....

Am aware of and own most sources, but the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is relatively obscure. Of the bullet and powder company sources of load data, I think only Accurate does any real justice to lead bullets. I am going to stand by my statement that lead bullet data is a footnote, and even in the sources that feature it the loads are shy of real magnum performance, barring a gas check.

Was just shooting my 44 Mag this afternoon using 240 lead and 9.5 Unique. For me, the 6 1/2" Blackhawk is too hard to control with my H110 XTP load, so I tend to avoid it.

[NWPilgrim]

Cast lead a "footnote" to .44 mag reloading? I just heard Elmer Keith jump out out his grave and gasp!

[Chainsaw.]

*sigh* Here we go again with ANOTHER discussion about bear defense. Lets use logic to shake this out. Most black bears aren't 300 pounds, even more black bear aren't breaking into your house or property, and still even more of all those bears are scarred literally ****less by people noises etc. If you find your self in close proximity to one of these killer black bears (sarcasm) your best defense will be all the noise you make while you either go for or attempt to draw your pistol. I have come with in 30' (amongst dozens of others) of a record 488 pound boar(He was arrow stuck that fall by a close friend, said bear now resides on friends living room wall), you know what he said when he saw me? "AHHHHHH!!! HUMAN!!! RUN AWAY!!!!" And meerly injuring a blackie, short of cornering it or threatening its young, will cause them to make haste in a direction that doesn't involve you, fences, or thick brush be damned.

The reality is the greatest danger to you comes in the form of wolves....on two legs. Therefore, in My opinion, take that for what its worth, ypur round of choice is fine. Lest ye be marching off into griz country, then we all know ypu had better well have close air support

[44 AMP]

I understand, but these aren't for hunting black bear, just repelling them yet allowing you to have the same load for "in-town" errands.

I think using "repel" by itself is a rather poor choice of words.

Had you said "repel boarders" (arrrh!! ) it probably wouldn't have drawn much comment. I don't know about today (so much knowledge seems to have been lost..) but at one time, the most famous pistols for "repelling boarders" in the animal sense, were Howdah pistols. Specifically made to be something that would convince a tiger not to climb onto the back of the elephant with you.


Plus I think you have the order of power needed reversed. Hunting bear can successfully be done with the lower powered ammo, just as it can be done with lower powered cartridges as well. When hunting, YOU pick the shot, and the bear isn't charging or already chawin' on you.

DEFENSE (aka "repel boarders!! arrr!) , on the other hand, it a different matter, you don't get to wait for just the right shot. For defense, a lower power load, and especially a bullet designed for a human adversary are poor choices.

and, speaking of knowledge lost...

Cast lead a "footnote" to .44 mag reloading? I just heard Elmer Keith jump out out his grave and gasp!

That sound you hear is Elmer, climbing out of his grave, chomping his cigar, and getting ready to slap you silly with his ten gallon Stetson. Repeatedly.

Elmer developed the .44 Magnum with cast bullets. His own. 240/250gr weight over 22gr of 2400. And he used standard, not magnum primers with that load.

[stagpanther]

I don't take any chances with bears--here's my bear gun.

[Real Gun]

Lead bullets are only ubiquitous for the 44 Magnum to the bullet caster or wild catter. 6 of 10 bullets shown in the Cast Bullet Handbook by Lyman for the 44 Magnum are gas checks. Also, use of H110 where shown is consistently indicating magnum primers.

I use lead bullets but certainly not full power and definitely not with H110. Will agree that 2400 gives a good load. Part of what makes lead and 44 magnum work is that, aside from substantial pressure levels, all of the bullets over 200 grain are rated (in Lyman) at velocities considered suitable for lead bullets (subsonic levels). For commonly available commercial offerings of ammo for 44 Magnum, such as might be available in distribution to LGSs, or even load data from bullet makers or powder companies, lead bullets are not well represented, with Accurate leading the way in load data. The Lyman book is an essential resource. The more common bullet for the modern 44 Magnum is the semi-jacketed flat point or other jacketed variants.

I think the majority of 44 Magnum gun owners are shooting store bought ammo, which will most likely be jacketed in some form. Bullet casters and those loading for 44 Mag with purchased lead bullets are likely the exceptions by a wide margin, a "footnote" if you will.