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Old February 21, 2018, 04:27 PM   #1
nobro
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Blue Brass

I'm new here. I joined because I've been seeking the answer to a question online and during my search, a thread about bluing brass, which was posted here, appeared in the results. The thread was largely about how to clean brass shell casings of the tarnish which can discolor it.

I'm hoping to do just the opposite. I want to turn the yellow/gold color of brass sheet metal as deeply and intensely blue as possible. I saw this effect only once, on the brass railing of a hotel. So, I'm assuming that the process which produced it isn't a toxic chemical.

I wish that I had managed to capture a photo of the color. The next day, the staff at the hotel had removed it from the railing and it was shiny yellow/gold again. At first, I thought the color might have been the natural reaction to the oils in people's hands coming into contact with the brass. But now I believe it to be some kind of cleaning solution being used on the railing, or perhaps a preservative.

Has anyone here seen this coloration on brass and can you share how it can be achieved?

Many thanks!
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Old February 21, 2018, 04:55 PM   #2
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Was it copper? When copper oxidizes it turns a blue/green color. I'm sure they cleaned the railing because the guests didn't want blue hands. Brass is mostly copper, but I don't know how you can turn it blue without degrading it.
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Old February 21, 2018, 05:28 PM   #3
surveyor
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I found this.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...=marking+brass

And this

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=544785
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Old February 22, 2018, 01:06 PM   #4
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are you sure that was not a plastic protective film used to protect the surface from corrosion and scratches before and during installation ? If you really want to mess with your brass there are a number of chemicals available to turn it a rainbow of colors. Homebrew recipes are available just do a google search. I will not post the links here because I have no idea if they might weaken the brass
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Old February 22, 2018, 01:27 PM   #5
T. O'Heir
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Regular cold bluing will colour brass, but it's not actually blue. It's black.
"...the process which produced it isn't a toxic chemical..." Colouring brass is done with extremely nasty chemicals and acids using heat much like hot bluing of steel. The formulas are in Machinery's Handbook(New copy of the 29th Edition is $150.53 on Amazon. Used starts at $51.) It would not be done or removable by hotel staff. It'd be done in a metal finishing shop when the railing was put in. Isn't something you'd really want to do to cartridges though. Friggin' things are had enough to find in long grass.
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Old February 22, 2018, 02:23 PM   #6
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I am betting as noted above.... was a new railing and the shipping company has the cling on protective plastic on the brass tubing....

I just installed an entire kitchen of new appliances with the same cling blue plastic protective covering

One closet hanger rod I got was well covered and because it was chrome under----- I was sad to remove the blue plastic ( blue is a fav color) because it was so pretty
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Old February 22, 2018, 03:21 PM   #7
nobro
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fredvon4, no this wasn't a new railing but one that had been in service for long time. It was covered with any kind of plastice but rather, as I described seemed to be something that the staff of the hotel used to clean, polish, and/or preserve the brass. I'd love to find the product in order to recreate the color effect. It was astoundingly beautiful. Unlike anything that I've seen before or since.
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Old February 22, 2018, 03:27 PM   #8
nobro
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T. O'Heir, my desire isn't for bluing brass shell casings but rather creating the intense blue color sheet brass that I'm using for another project. I've been making my own guitars and I'd like to capture the color effect on the brass back and sides for my next guitar project. The railing that I mentioned did not leave the hotel for any outside finishing. Hence, why I believe that the effect may have been caused via some sort of cleaning product. But I can't be positive about exactly what was used.
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Old February 22, 2018, 03:32 PM   #9
nobro
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hounddawg, the color effect was directly on the brass railing itself. There was no plastic covering on the brass and the area that the color covered wasn't a consistent painted on look but it did cover most of the area where folks would grip the railing. Which is why I thought the effect might have been related to the oils in the hands of those who used the railing or some kind of cleaning agent used by the staff to clean it.
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Old February 22, 2018, 03:36 PM   #10
nobro
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surveyor, that second link that you provided was the one that I first led me to this forum. I'll check further into that first link. It looked as though it may be promising.
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Old February 22, 2018, 03:40 PM   #11
nobro
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T. O'Heir, thank you for that text suggestion. I will follow up and see what I can learn from it. The black coloring wasn't what I was after but rather an intense translucent blue. Perhaps the answer can be found in Machinery's Handbook. I'll look for a copy online.
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Old February 22, 2018, 03:42 PM   #12
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griz, the railing wasn't copper but brass and the blues color didn't seem to come off the railing and color the hands of those who used it. This is why I'd like to discover what was used on the railing. I want that precise finish for the sheet brass that I'm using in my guitar building projects.
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Old February 22, 2018, 04:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Has anyone here seen this coloration on brass and can you share how it can be achieved?
Blue: Before the Internet there was brass cleaning; I started using vinegar, after that I started using vinegar for the worst of cases. I did not have a problem with tumbling, I did have a problem with tumbling cases for days on end. Before all of this took place I was using another acid to clean cases, old tools and cast iron anything. It was some bad stuff.

When I started using vinegar I decided on a maximum of 15 minutes for the life of the case meaning I did not get into the bad habit of using vinegar over and over and over etc.

Back to the other stuff. When cleaning cases the maximum time was less than 2 minutes; after the 2 minutes the cases had to be rinsed in boiling water twice and then rinsed again. During the process the cases turned black; the old guys talked about the process as thought they were pickling cases for storage. They even sealed the cans/jars.

The same reloading manual talked about streaker bullets. I have streaker bullets; I do not shoot them because I have no interest in cleaning the barrel with the smelly stuff, at the same time I have no interest in greasing my bullets to prevent streaks in my barrel.

F. Guffey

Last edited by F. Guffey; February 22, 2018 at 04:06 PM. Reason: change e to t
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Old February 22, 2018, 04:11 PM   #14
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Nobro,

You can look here, but be aware that just because the resultant coloring is not toxic does not mean the chemicals that create it are non-toxic, as you will see from the formulations.

Meanwhile, as this is not really a handloading topic but may be useful for gunsmithing, I am moving the thread there.
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Old February 22, 2018, 04:48 PM   #15
nobro
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Thanks for that link Unclenick. I was unsure as to where to post my question because it wasn't specifically gun related but rather was metal finishing related and that's how I stumbled upon the forum, via a Google search, attempting to find someone who could assist me in recreating the effect that I saw on the hotel railing. I read the thread and several other links, where the members here were discussing how to both remove discolorations from brass and how to decoratively color brass casings and thought that I might find some wisdom from those who have worked at creating finishes on brass for my project.
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Old February 23, 2018, 01:20 AM   #16
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Why don't you call the hotel???
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Old February 23, 2018, 02:08 AM   #17
nobro
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Bill DeShivs, my first action was to inquire of the staff at the hotel, who I assumed had been cleaning the railing but none of them could, or perhaps simply would provide me with the answers I sought. Despite my explaining why I desired the information, I believe they thought my inquiry was something to be wary of. Because, by the following day, they had completely removed the beautiful blue color from the railing! Perhaps they thought they were going to get into some kind of trouble over the matter. And that my questions about it were some kind of a secret plot to punish them with a negative review of their cleaning efforts. I believe they saw the discoloration as something that wasn't right. And they felt they might be reprimanded for it, not being as clean and as shiny as brass should look. I have to admit, if I were in their place, I would likely be just as suspicious of some guy going gaga over the blue color on a brass railing.

I guess this mystery has been kind of a crazy thing to spend so much of my time and energy attempting to solve. I really didn't think that the answer would be quite this elusive and challenging to discover. But the intense blue color was so spectacular that I had to try to figure out a means to reproduce the effect. If I can find the secret, my efforts will be well rewarded.
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Old February 23, 2018, 09:58 PM   #18
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Are you sure that hotel was located here on planet Earth ? Perhaps it was located on your home planet.
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Old February 24, 2018, 08:52 AM   #19
nobro
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arguebuss357, Well, when one makes a discovery of that significance in one's surroundings, it does feel as though it transports you to another place. And strangely it does. In my case, because I have a desire to reproduce that particular color, for use on my next project, I've been searching the interwebs high and low for an answer, regarding how to do so. And it led me here, to this place. And with the help of a few very knowledgeable individuals here, I may have located what I need. I've yet to completely follow up on all of the suggestions that I've received. I'll report my findings and results, if successful.

Thanks to all for your kindness in this pursuit!
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Old February 24, 2018, 01:19 PM   #20
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Let us know how it turns out
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Old February 26, 2018, 08:25 PM   #21
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I just googled blue brass... assuming you did the same. One youtube video... the first one is using a 50% solution of gum metal blue and distilled water. Another person soaked kitty litter with amonia and made a paste to coat the brass. As far as toxicity... metal oxides are generally not good in your body. Hope that helps
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Old February 27, 2018, 07:45 AM   #22
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Sounds to me they used ammonia to clean the railing.
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Old February 27, 2018, 01:02 PM   #23
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You don't want to use ammonia on cartridge brass. It causes season cracking.
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