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Old March 6, 2010, 01:32 PM   #26
Sarge
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No.

One of the foundation elements of staying out of harm's way is to avoid attracting attention to yourself. An exposed sidearm will attract attention- even in places where lots of folks carry. It's human nature to notice characteristics that set other people apart.

Also, nobody is going to grab for a gun they can't see; neither will they shoot/shank you in the back, or dogpile you for it.

Let your gun be a surprise to everyone except you.
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Old March 6, 2010, 01:42 PM   #27
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For example, assume you are in an establishment while carrying open and the establishment is about to be robbed by armed bandits. The first thing they will probably do is take out any threat to themselves which would be either taking your gun or worse, shooting you.
Actually, I believe they would wait until you left the establishment or choose another target. If robbery of the establishment was their main objective.

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My intention was to note that if someone intends to target you specifically - to walk up behind you and shoot you in the back of the head, say, or to walk up to you as you sit at a table in a restaurant and suddenly shoot you in the head - they are unlikely to be deterred by the fact that you are carrying a handgun. Their entire game plan would be an ambush: an sudden attack from the flank or rear such that you'd have little time to see it coming or respond.
I believe this scenario is very much different than the random act of a robbery. So openly armed or concealed armed, you would still be a target and ambush would be more likely, as you stated.

I think a lot of the open carry debate depends on where you live. I live in a rural setting and I open carry around the homestead while checking the farm critters. I have occasionally opened carried when I went into town for supplies and such chores. Usually does not raise much of an eye brow.

But, If I was going to Kansas City, then I would definitely NOT open carry, although parts of the city you should not go unarmed in. (And yes, I do try to avoid them. )

Where I am, a gun is just a part of life. No wild west stuff and no mean criminals to deter, just used for hunting and varmint control.

If I went into a place in the city and saw a group of guys peacefully reading the newspaper, drinking coffee and generally minding their own business, but armed: I would not worry about it.

If I went into the same place and there were a group of guys talking loudly and making a scene (Reguardless of whether it involve guns they were openly carrying), I would leave.

I do believe open carry can be a plus or a minus towards the whole gun debate, depending on who is doing it and how they are doing it. There is a guy who posted here that does it, I believe, for the wrong reasons. ( http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=395628 If you follow the links, you might see what I mean.)

My father used to say "Perception is in the eye of the beholder and my perception is not going to be your perception."
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Old March 6, 2010, 01:49 PM   #28
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A little over a century ago, open carry was lawful in many places in this country. About that time, laws began to be enacted banning the practice, even in Texas. It woul be interesting to know what caused that push--I would not like to see it happen again.
Well, I can tell you what the open carry movement has caused here in Washington, and New Mexico. When we are hassled by LEO who either are operating from their own anti-open carry agendas, or out of ignorance, actions taken to point out the errors in judgment committed by these officers have resulted in positive training for LEO agencies. Courts have upheld the citizens' rights to be armed. 911 operators have been trained to properly respond to calls:

"Where is the man's gun?"
"In a holster."
"What is the man doing?"
"Eating dinner, shopping, etc."
"Thank you for calling, however, at this time there is no suspicious activity to require a police officer to respond to."

The general shift in reactions to seeing Americans going about their normal day to day activities with a means available to them to protect themselves has gone from mostly curiosity with a few die-hard negative persons to mostly just letting those Americans going about their normal day to day routines and with less and less curiosity and almost no die-hard negative reactions, except by those groups who won't stop until every gun and bullet is removed from American society anyway.

That's been my personal experience in day to day life, anyway.
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Old March 6, 2010, 03:45 PM   #29
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Here's my thoughts on this... coming from 24 years as an LAPD policeman. If someone in LA had a weapon in plain view, I would talk to him (and open carry is legal in CA, but must be unloaded). As a citizen, I don't like people around me openly carrying; that's just my view. I'm a die-hard NRA life member and competitive shooter, but it's, well, stupid. Now, out in the country, on your farm, on the way into town to get stuff after a day on the tractor, no sweat. In a city, it'll cause pandemonium. And why, if nothing else, attract attention to yourself? Why pull away cops to investigate an OC situation when they could be doing something else? To look cool? I don't understand- and I carried a gun every day in LA, EVERYWHERE I went. I still do now, in a small town in retirement. I think some OC types LIKE confrontation with the Law over this issue...a point needs to be proven, I guess. I CAN give you situations where non-uniformed cops were engaged by bad guys while eating, etc, because their guns were showing (Detectives with their coats off, guns and badges displayed). LAPD has, as Dept policy, rules against displaying a weapon if off-duty or in plainclothes, on duty. There's a reason for that, and anyone that denies there's a tactical advantage to being armed and concealed is smoking rock cocaine. Being concealed gives the CC person (cop or citizen) the option of where and when (or even if) to respond to an armed encounter. Open carry takes away that option and invites curiosity, ridicule and resentment on the part of other citizens. Hope I haven't been too adament on this; my perspective might be somewhat different as a former big-city cop.
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Old March 6, 2010, 03:47 PM   #30
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Old March 6, 2010, 03:54 PM   #31
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I only open carry in uniform and, from a tactical perspective, just wouldn't do so unless maybe I was working on my 2500 acre ranch (which I don't own). If it were a wise thing to do then why don't departments agencies across the nation tell their LEO's to open carry off duty. That practice is generally forbidden by policy due to a lack of discretion and , again, because it is a tactical dissadvantage.
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Old March 6, 2010, 04:11 PM   #32
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Its legal in the state of Virginia to open carry but I don't do it. What the heck for? To tell you the truth I think it does more harm than good. A lot of people just aren't into handguns, and if, for example I were to open carry into a restaurant (that doesn't serve alcohol) it could possibly scare customers away. I personally am a big fan of firearms. On the other hand I respect the concerns that other people have and I don't believe in imposing my conscience on them.
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Old March 6, 2010, 04:25 PM   #33
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In my state open carry is legal. However,even if I were'nt a LEO,I would not carry openly. Why give away the element of surprise? To me,open carry is perfectly okay,but to those members of the public who are still "on the fence" about The 2nd Amendment...OC would seem to have the potential to give them disdain,rather than sympathy,for our cause. Also,I do agree that trying to out-draw a gun that's already pointed at you is suicide. However, there are always exceptions to every rule. Massad Ayoob did an article [for his "The Ayoob Files" column in American Handgunner magazine] about a uniformed patrol officer who did that very thing;he managed to draw his holstered sidearm and shoot the man who was aiming a gun at him. On top of that,it was done from a Level III retention holster. The officer survived,his assailant did not. The officer did mention that he'd trained intensively on his draw,thousands of repetitions performed religiously. His attacker died a very surprised man. Having said that,I would'nt want to have to try it myself,but I guess in a situation like that you may as well go for broke if you're convinced you're about to get shot regardless.
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Old March 6, 2010, 04:26 PM   #34
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In the woods, while hunting or camping on my own land - yes.

Anywhere else - No

In NYS there is no open carry allowed unless you are on your own property or hunting, and I would prefer concealed anyways - the fewer people that know I can carry the better.
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Old March 6, 2010, 04:31 PM   #35
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I can but I don't and save some type of hunting expedition out in the woods I do not advocate it. I think it is not wise tactically or politically. Just my opin.
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Old March 6, 2010, 04:39 PM   #36
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I can, and I do all the time.
I do not shy away from my rights.
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Old March 6, 2010, 06:13 PM   #37
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I can, and I do all the time.
I do not shy away from my rights.
or get shot at, or attacked...
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Old March 6, 2010, 06:28 PM   #38
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i ocasionally open carry but only when ppl i know and trust are around. i couldnt see the benifit to open carry in the daily routine. it just seams to defeat the point, the goal is to defend not intimidate
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Old March 6, 2010, 06:36 PM   #39
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or get shot at, or attacked...
Jeeze, LT, Ive done it ever since I became a civy, mulitple times a week, since 94 and never been attacked or shot.
The internet never ceases to amaze me how one person, can make judgements for everyone else.

You want to live in fear, thats fine, I dont have anything to say about it, perhaps you should take a lesson and do the same for me practicing what my rights as an American give me.

The biggest threat to gun owners are the cowards in our midst, who feel they need to be against whatever THEY dont practice rather than let others do as they please, within the laws of their state.
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Old March 6, 2010, 06:36 PM   #40
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Clearly there are occasions where open carry may deter crimes, especially if the crimes consist of a shake-down or armed robbery.
It's clear to me that open carry would deter MOST people with criminal intent from messing with you.

And, there are some situations where it would be more likely to get you killed, and an armed robbery is one of them. Nothing represents more of a threat to a criminal than the sight of a gun on one of his (their) intended victim (victims). They don't always run.

In some situations, Bubba already knows his victim is likely armed. Jewelry shops are a good example, and open carry, CCW, or stashed guns are assumed by the armed robbers.
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Old March 6, 2010, 06:38 PM   #41
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Open carry is not a good idea in most instances in my opinion. In a small town in many parts of the nation it isn't a big deal but I wouldn't go to Nashville and do it.
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Old March 6, 2010, 06:40 PM   #42
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Absolutely cause it would make me feel OH so MACHO.
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Old March 6, 2010, 06:46 PM   #43
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Never really felt macho, but I have to say, that argument alone is the backbone of the anti's, funny Im hearing it here, a gun board...
Some will say its better, as I know Im faster from my holster than from my CCW holster, thats for sure.

A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost.
Dont want to excersize that right yourself? Dont! But also dont degrade those who choose to do it for you, or I should say us.
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Old March 6, 2010, 06:49 PM   #44
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as I know Im faster from my holster than from my CCW holster, thats for sure
.

Practice, practice, practice will change that
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Old March 6, 2010, 07:00 PM   #45
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"Cowards"

"Macho"

Closed.

Rule 3 -- you signed that you agreed to it. Follow it.

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